The Sabbath

[Mr Pickles]

I have looked into further into the question of the Sabbath , and why some Christians believe we should keep the Saturday Sabbath , and reject the Catholic sun day
and see the catholic church infiltrated by satan, the beast anti christ power, set up to for shadow , eclipse

The real Jesus divine truth and true spiritually.

i would be interested to here your point of view , under standing .

http://www.christianforums.com/t7708207/


http://www.christianforums.com/t7707955/



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ByuHpKT0EoM

 

[Mr Pickles]

i put the question to the Messianic Judaism forum here, regarding the keeping of the Sabbath

some interesting reply's
http://www.christianforums.com/t7708461/

 

[Bob Carabbio]

SImple - the "Sabbath" isn't a "Day" any more - it's a PERSON - in WHOM we rest from our labor. Jesus is the Christian Sabbath, and it's not 1 day out of 7 - it's constant.

There ARE NO "Special days" in 2012. One's as good as another, and while some denominational groups get all bound up in "Sabbatarianism", the majority of the church in the U.S. gets together in their buildings on Sunday.

 

[Steve Petersen]

SImple - the "Sabbath" isn't a "Day" any more - it's a PERSON - in WHOM we rest from our labor. Jesus is the Christian Sabbath, and it's not 1 day out of 7 - it's constant.

There ARE NO "Special days" in 2012. One's as good as another, and while some denominational groups get all bound up in "Sabbatarianism", the majority of the church in the U.S. gets together in their buildings on Sunday.

Understanding Sabbath on a spiritual level does not negate the practical one. God gave the Sabbath to Israel as a commandment that was to be observed 'throughout your generations.' Last time I looked, Jews are still 'generating.'

 

[Mr Pickles]

Thank you for your reply's

interesting debate on the subject of the law commandments and the Sabbath

http://www.christianforums.com/t7680094/

 

[New_Wineskin]

I have looked into further into the question of the Sabbath , and why some Christians believe we should keep the Saturday Sabbath , and reject the Catholic sun day
and see the catholic church infiltrated by satan, the beast anti christ power, set up to for shadow , eclipse

The real Jesus divine truth and true spiritually.

i would be interested to here your point of view , under standing .

http://www.christianforums.com/t7708207/


http://www.christianforums.com/t7707955/



Prophecy Answers-6 Who is the "Beast" who gives the Mark? by David Asscherick - YouTube

I find this question very interesting because it brings up one of the greatest contradictions in christianity ( small 'c' ) . The 10 commandments are still held up as a standard and people even go crazy about a monument of them in some courtroom . And yet , there it is - "keep the Sabbath" . And , this Sabbath is defined clearly as what it is and kept as Friday evening to Saturday evening . Rationalization galore is exhibited among those that extol the 10 yet defiant towards the Sabbath .

The Law is one and disobedience towards one is disobedience towards all . Live by the Law or don't - there is no middle ground - either salvation is earned through obedience to the Law or it isn't .

 

[Mr Pickles]

can we earn our salvation ? or is it a love matter, those who love me, keep my commands

 

[New_Wineskin]

can we earn our salvation ?

nope

or is it a love matter, those who love me, keep my commands

It is a matter of that . But , what does that have to do with the thread ?

 

[Mr Pickles]

you wrote

The Law is one and disobedience towards one is disobedience towards all . Live by the Law or don't - there is no middle ground - either salvation is earned through obedience to the Law or it isn't .

Is salvation a priceless gift we cannot earn or deserve,

or do we have to earn our salvation by observing the law, the Sabbath feast days,

keeping all the commandments perfectly, if not we are not saved.

people have asked ask we ask our selves, what must i do to be saved, what is required.

Paul says to work out our salvation , with fear and trembling.

so im trying to work out what is and is not required.

 

[Mr Pickles]

in my mind in considering this question, i was led to believe we had died with Christ , Yeshua, when a person dies the law no longer applies to him.

we are alive in Yeshua but dead to the world, free agents, to love God, and worship him in spirit and in truth .

and to love our neighbour as our self, to love one another , to love our enemy ,within this we are free agents not under law, but under grace, and to excel in the greatest gift love.

against such there is no law. Paul states

so we walk in freedom in the spirit in love in fellowship with God.

not under law and observing days times or seasons. we are dead to this,

but alive to serve Yeshua our fellow man each other.


a bit like standing in common law, where the corporate fictional statues enforcement's do not apply, and only apply when you most of the time, unknowingly give consent.
the straw man, we are no longer the straw man.

but a new man in Yeshua.

in the united Kingdom every one is registered to the united kingdom corporation, owned by the knights of malta. the vatican, under papal cannon maritime law, not as a living person, but as cargo in a wharehouse, born of our mothers water cannel.

we are also considered dead by the state, declared dead, and every one every thing is then held in their trust, and is used as collateral , though no one is told this you only have seven years from when you are born, to reclaim your titles, and prove you are alive.

 

[Mr Pickles]

some would say the law is the school teacher the guide set of principles that reveal the truth about our fallen nature and the need to be saved and redeemed, set free from our transgressions , by the blood of Jesus.

the law leads us to Jesus, but is a shadow , of the true revelation, the Lord Jesus Christ, who among many things said I AM the door, we pass through this door, into new life,

Master this women was caught in adultery, according to the law she should be stoned. the law is the law, we cannot break Gods law, she must be stoned,

but this is not the sent ace Jesus passed,

like wise Jesus healing on the Sabbath , a women bound over , who stood up right,

Jesus spoke about heavy loads being put on people, and that his load was easy his burden light.

so im trying to under stand does the law observing the law, in a religious manner bend us over,

or help us stand up right. like the women Jesus healed,

though in the eyes of those there , present , Jesus had broken the Sabbath,

any one defiling the Sabbath in the slightest way, was a death sentence.

so if people are taught still if you do not keep all of Gods laws the Sabbath and feast days perfectly, in perfect obedience,

you will loose your salvation, you can only be saved by believing in Jesus and observing the law perfectly.

some would say as we see in christian cults and sects , the catholic church salvation can only be completed through our mass, or our teaching , and people find them selves not in freedom, Jesus died to give us,

but in spiritual bondage under all kinds of self condemnation.

we all should want to do whats right in the eyes of God,

but in the same token i have met Christians trying to be more christian than Christ,

doing things God has not asked them to do, or required them to do,

but in their own eyes in their own strength, they feel they are gaining merit,


we see also letters written to the Gentile churches instructions, keep your self from immorality, abstain from food offered to idols ect,

but no mention of you must keep the Sabbath, feast day Sabbaths ,

unless the Gentile churches had already been taught this and where, so was not an issue in the letters sent. ?

 

[New_Wineskin]

you wrote

The Law is one and disobedience towards one is disobedience towards all . Live by the Law or don't - there is no middle ground - either salvation is earned through obedience to the Law or it isn't .

Sounds good .

Is salvation a priceless gift we cannot earn or deserve,

or do we have to earn our salvation by observing the law, the Sabbath feast days,

keeping all the commandments perfectly, if not we are not saved.

Answer - salvation is a priceless guft tha we cannot earn - the Law has nothing to do with it .

people have asked ask we ask our selves, what must i do to be saved, what is required.

Once a person is led to the Lord , He will take care of those questions .

Paul says to work out our salvation , with fear and trembling.

so im trying to work out what is and is not required.

Ok . First , you need to go to the Lord . Ask Him to reveal Himself to you . Once you are reborn , He will help you on yoiur journey .

 

[Mr Pickles]

i have know Jesus for some time now im just working out my salvation trying to decern Gods will, a deeper understanding.

in christian circles on any given topic there can be different points of views.

so knowing the mind of Christ, is on going for myself.

 

[Mr Pickles]

so so far ive listen to spoke with Christians SDA Messianic Judaism all on this forum

some say it is not a requirement to keep the Saturday Sabbath and the feast day Sabbaths, some do.

though the Messianic believers say they do not keep the Sabbaths in the same way some Christians do, and are poles apart, ?

so im waiting for them to make known how and where the differences are.

what is the mind of Christ ? Gods will and requirement. ? for every believer.

in the Lord Jesus Christ.

 

[Mr Pickles]

In general (I cannot speak for the whole): reply from MJ forum
MJ believes, as most, that we are saved by the grace of God through faith in Yeshua and His finished work on the cross. We do not keep the Shabbat to be saved, nor do we obey God's commands (as found in the Torah and Yeshua's words) to be saved. Rather we keep the Shabbat and obey the commands that we can (as best we can) because we have been saved to do these things (work out your salveation, etc.).

Just because Yeshua lived a perfect sinless life, obeyed Torah perfectly, doesn't mean that we no longer have to obey those same commands that He obeyed. Sure, we're not going to do it to the degree that He did, but does that mean we shouldn't do the best we can?

As far as the differences between SDA's observance of the Sabbath and MJ - SDA pretty much treat their Sabbath as mainstream treats Sunday - a few hours on that day set aside to go to church service and maybe Sunday School. Other than those few hours, the day is pretty much like any other day (except many do not work at their daily jobs on Saturday).

MJs begin their Shabbat at sundown on Friday and observe Shabbes until sundown on Saturday. During this time (again, in general) we do not work at our daily jobs, we don't cook, we don't do normal housework/yardwork, we don't handle money or do business (i.e., shop, eat out at a restuarant, etc.); those who are able to not use a car, don't.

Do we lose our salvation if we decide to go to Disney World on Shabbes? No, we don't, nor do we receive salvation for not going. It's a heart thing - what are our motives for keeping or not keeping Hashem's Shabbat. That's the whole thing about observing Torah - what are each person's motives?

What is required? A pure heart.

I know I didn't address all of your questions, but hopefully this will help somewhat.

 

[Mr Pickles]

2015: Blood Red Moon & End Time Events (Part 1 of 6) - YouTube


Pastor Mark Biltz of El Shaddai Ministries believes he knows the exact day, if not the specific year.

More about Mark Biltz:
http://www.elshaddaiministries.us/staff.html

Biltz uses NASA forecasting to study signals of Jesus' return. Will Jesus Christ return to Earth in the year 2015?

He suggests a rare string of lunar and solar eclipses said to fall on God's annual holy days seven years from now could herald what's come to be known as the "Second Coming" of Jesus.

"God wants us to look at the biblical calendar," says Mark Biltz, pastor of El Shaddai Ministries in Bonney Lake, Wash. "The reason we need to be watching is [because] He will signal His appearance.

He noted a rare phenomenon of four consecutive total lunar eclipses, known as a tetrad.

He says during this century, tetrads occur at least six times, but what's interesting is that the only string of four consecutive blood moons that coincide with God's holy days of Passover in the spring and the autumn's Feast of Tabernacles (also called Succoth) occurs between 2014 and 2015 on today's Gregorian calendar.

"The fact that it doesn't happen again in this century I think is very significant," Biltz explains. "So then I looked at last century, and, believe it or not, the last time that four blood red moons occurred together was in 1967 and 1968 tied to Jerusalem recaptured by Israel."

He then started to notice a pattern of the tetrads.

"What's significant to me is that even before 1967, the next time that you had four blood red moons again was right after Israel became a nation in '48, it happened again in 1949 and 1950 ... on Passover and Succoth. You didn't have any astronomical tetrads in the 1800s, the 1700s, the 1600s. In the 1500s, there were six, but none of those fell on Passover and Succoth."

When checking the schedule for solar eclipses, Biltz found two one on the first day of the Hebrew year and the next on the high holy day of Rosh Hashanah, the first day of the seventh Hebrew month. Both of these take place in the 2014-2015 year.

The sun's corona becomes visible during a solar eclipse.

Biltz says, "You have the religious year beginning with the total solar eclipse, two weeks later a total lunar eclipse on Passover, and then the civil year beginning with the solar eclipse followed two weeks later by another total blood red moon on the Feast of Succoth all in 2015."

"If you think that this is a coincidence, I want you to know that it's time!" exclaimed Prophecy in the News host J.R. Church. "There are no more of these for the rest of the century."

CLICK HERE TO READ THE FULL ARTICLE:
WND -

 

[Mr Pickles]

worth watching

 

[New_Wineskin]

In general (I cannot speak for the whole): reply from MJ forum
MJ believes, as most, that we are saved by the grace of God through faith in Yeshua and His finished work on the cross. We do not keep the Shabbat to be saved, nor do we obey God's commands (as found in the Torah and Yeshua's words) to be saved. Rather we keep the Shabbat and obey the commands that we can (as best we can) because we have been saved to do these things (work out your salveation, etc.).

This is typical double-talk by legalists of all types .
Paul wrote in detail why living by a written or handed-down code doesn't work and why it is void of faith .

People who wish to through rules around and now those Messianic Gentiles attempt to circumvent Paul's argument by stating that it is all in the attitude of the rules and not the rules themselves .

That is all fine and good except that they then insist that those rules must be obeyed by others . If they kept the rules themselves and said that it was by faith , that is possible . Once they say in any way that others whould obey those rules as well , they take faith out of the equation and now fit exactly into Paul's argument . It cannot be by faith for you and then demand that others do so without faith .

Just because Yeshua lived a perfect sinless life, obeyed Torah perfectly, doesn't mean that we no longer have to obey those same commands that He obeyed. Sure, we're not going to do it to the degree that He did, but does that mean we shouldn't do the best we can?

They ignore that those rules were told by the Lord to the Israelites - not Gentiles . They also ignore the fact that they refuse to observe major parts of the Law including laws pertaining to the Sabbath .

Also , the Law was never about "doing the best you can" . You do it or die - that was the choice given to the Israelites .

As far as the differences between SDA's observance of the Sabbath and MJ - SDA pretty much treat their Sabbath as mainstream treats Sunday - a few hours on that day set aside to go to church service and maybe Sunday School. Other than those few hours, the day is pretty much like any other day (except many do not work at their daily jobs on Saturday).

Neither of those are "Sabbaths" . The Sabbath is a day of rest - not dressingup and going to meetings .

MJs begin their Shabbat at sundown on Friday and observe Shabbes until sundown on Saturday. During this time (again, in general) we do not work at our daily jobs, we don't cook, we don't do normal housework/yardwork, we don't handle money or do business (i.e., shop, eat out at a restuarant, etc.); those who are able to not use a car, don't.

That is not good enough for the rules of the Sabbath - not by a long shot .

Do we lose our salvation if we decide to go to Disney World on Shabbes? No, we don't, nor do we receive salvation for not going. It's a heart thing - what are our motives for keeping or not keeping Hashem's Shabbat. That's the whole thing about observing Torah - what are each person's motives?

What is required? A pure heart.

I know I didn't address all of your questions, but hopefully this will help somewhat.

If it was all about motives , they would not have it in their name .

 

[WOFFED]

SImple - the "Sabbath" isn't a "Day" any more - it's a PERSON - in WHOM we rest from our labor. Jesus is the Christian Sabbath, and it's not 1 day out of 7 - it's constant. There are NO "Special days" in 2012. One's as good as another, and while some denominational groups get all bound up in "Sabbatarianism", the majority of the church is the U.S. gets together in their buildings on Sunday.

Know from where you are coming (scripture), however that said one can't justify something on the basis of the majority. I think you would agree that Yeshua was crucified on Passover, which happend to be a Wednesday and was resurrected after 3 days and 3 nights early the first day of the week (Sunday). Yet, the majority of American churches don't get it. Sunday is also considered as the eighth day. It is a day of new beginnings (circumcision being performed on the eighth day). The number eight means "new beginning." So worshipping on Sunday is just as valid as worshipping on Saturday. One's heart is circumcised with a newer covenant offering certain advantages over the previous covenant that still has significant value.

Understanding Sabbath on a spiritual level does not negate the practical one. God gave the Sabbath to Israel as a commandment that was to be observed 'throughout your generations.' Last time I looked, Jews are still 'generating.'

Also understand and agree with your valid perspective as do others from first-hand Christian missionary testimonies.​

Had an interesting phone conversation with Pastor Hal Steenson (SDA) a few years ago. He used to be Pentecostal having pastored a Pentecostal Church in Florida. However, he came to the conclusion that speaking in an unknown heavenly tongue(prayer/worship) wasn’t of God. He forsook the Pentecostal tongue-speaking doctrine and is now on pastoral staff at 3ABN (SDA).

Why I mention this is because he told me that it is not uncommon for SDA seminary pastors in training to begin their SDA church ministry under the guise of a non-denominational church (with Sunday services), so that they can grow the size of their congregation faster than under the banner of a SDA church with Saturday service. So, don’t be surprised if someone posting here as non-denominational isn’t really of SDA persuasion; especially when posting YouTubes of SDA pastors such as David Asscherick.

Personally, I don’t consider SDA an occult religion like some still maintain. Shawn Boonstra (SDA Pastor) and his more seeker sensitive “It Is Written” program was broadcast for awhile on TBN. The only 3ABN program that I may occasionally watch is “Celebrating Life In Recovery” hosted by Cheri Peters. Of all 3ABN programming these testimonies of recovering addicts is powerful evidence of the wonder-working influence of Yeshua (Christ Jesus) via the empowering of the Holy Spirit. Just as are the testimonies of those in Teen Challenge having experienced the LOVE of God to set them free. By the way, i don’t have the gift of speaking in an unknown prayer/worship tongue or interpretation, but i do believe in all the supernatural gifts as being just as relevant today as 1,950 years ago with disciples, apostle Paul and early Christian churches (e.g. Antioch).

Highly recommend the following link for these *DVDs by Mark Blitz (for all Believers. Excellent teaching and production quality on the significance of the major Jewish feasts for Christians. These appointed times(moeds) were like dress rehearsals for the real thing, some of which (Spring/Summer Feasts) have already been fulfilled. The remaining Fall Feasts so close to beginning their fulfillment. Well worth the investment for you, sharing with others and even as a special church teaching event. The sacred relevation of the significance of these feasts for Christians is just as eye opening for Messianic Jews as it is for Gentile Believers. YES, I'm aware we're all Abraham's offspring as numerous as the stars having become one new man.

* Page Title​

 

[Mr Pickles]

i dont buy into all the christian closed shop different club mentality , we are better than you.

this is not why Jesus came or taught, or how it should be. will there be segregation in heaven , i dont think so.

for me if i hear some thing that blesses me, opens my eyes i will share it with others believers unbelievers.

to encourage strengthen them increase their faith, point them in the right direction.

if a donkey was speaking the word of God , id listen,

its whats really in our heart, not where we fellowship , our love for one another the world love of God that counts.

whats so great if you know the Torah keep every Sabbath and feast day. fast twice a week.
but speak and live like a bigot.

others they are going through all the routines but their heart just isnt in it,

but occasionally you meet some one , and they have got the warmth and glow of the spirit.
you can see they are the genuine article . by their kindness love attitude, just shines through.

ive met as such in every denomination.