The real presence, how does it work.

Jipsah

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It was already addressed since John 6 is the context for that statement and not the other way around.
Well no, we haven't. You haven't responded at all to St. Paul's declaration that failure to discern the Lord's body in the Eucharist is a very bad thing. To wit:

28But let a man examine himself, and so let him eat of that bread, and drink of that cup.
29For he that eateth and drinketh unworthily, eateth and drinketh damnation to himself, not discerning the Lord's body.

You believe, as I understand uit, that the Lord's Body isn't resent in the Eucharist anyway. So what do you make of the apostle's contention that failure to discern the Lord's Body there may cause one to eat and drink damnation to himself?
What 1 Cor 11 did not say was that the person that comes to the Lord's table without being fully repentant - then goes out and finds Christ to shed His blood again.
I did in fact notice it not saying that. It also didn't say that the square of the hypotenuse equals the sums of the squares of the other two sides. One has about as much to do with the subject at hand as the other.
IT is talking about claiming the blood of Christ for forgiveness of sins in a non-serious way.
It just didn't happen to say anything at all about "claiming the Blood of Christ". Where'd that come from?
In the same way we use statements like "you have blood on your hands" to refer to a prosecutor that lets criminals run free so they can "kill again". IT does not mean that their hands have literal blood on them.
Best I can figure this is a more verbose version of the standard "really means" evasion, although since none of it seems to have any bearing on the Scripture cited, it's an extraordinarily clumsy one as well.
Christ was slain "once for all time" as we see in Heb 10.
Well at least we have one thing to agree on.
 
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Jipsah

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The wild claim that basic details agreed to by all -- "is a joke" -- is never justified
If it wasn't intended as a joke, then it was the most ridiculous argument against taking our Lord at His word that I have ever encountered.
 
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BobRyan

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Nobody saw literal bread coming out of heaven in John 6
Nobody bites Christ in John 6.

This is NOT just "me" saying this - every single person on this board knows those two statements are true.

I am saying it makes no sense to complain that I am making statements that everyone admits are correct in the two examples above.
Indeed -- undeniable truth in that post.

The undeniable truth that you need so much
Not challenging a single statement I just made - shows us both sides agreeing to the same obvious details.

That is not rocket science.

The wild claim that basic details agreed to by all -- "is a joke" -- is never justified
If it wasn't intended as a joke, then it was the most ridiculous argument

Stating a fact that no one disputes - is to make an indisputable point. It is not "a joke" by any definition of the term.
 
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BobRyan

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BTW, still no response at all to this, I notice:

27Wherefore whosoever shall eat this bread, and drink this cup of the Lord, unworthily, shall be guilty of the body and blood of the Lord.
It was already addressed since John 6 is the context for that statement and not the other way around.


Well no, we haven't. You haven't responded at all to St. Paul's declaration that failure to discern the Lord's body in the Eucharist is a very bad thing.
Well yes we have noticed that the John 6 statements by Christ were made long before the statements in 1 Cor 11 and are the context for them.

This is irrefutable.
To wit:

28But let a man examine himself, and so let him eat of that bread, and drink of that cup.
29For he that eateth and drinketh unworthily, eateth and drinketh damnation to himself, not discerning the Lord's body.

You believe, as I understand uit, that the Lord's Body isn't resent in the Eucharist anyway.
John 6 states that Jesus is the bread that already came down from heaven.
1. Nobody denies that John 6 is not saying people were seeing bread fall from the sky
2. Nobody denies that Jesus did not look like bread to anyone standing there.
3. Nobody denies that Jesus was in fact not bread at all - as he stood there talking to the disciples in John 6.

Jesus used bread as a symbol in John 6 just like He did in Matt 16
11 How is it that you do not understand that I did not speak to you about bread? But beware of the leaven of the Pharisees and Sadducees.” 12 Then they understood that He did not say to beware of the leaven of bread, but of the teaching of the Pharisees and Sadducees.

1 Cor 11 does not say "He that fails to suppose that Christ is inside this bread is eating in an unworthy manner"

The 1 Cor 11 statement is about the 1 Cor 11 fact "do this IN REMEMBRANCE of ME" -- literally true. It is a memorial service, not a new sacrifice.

It is about remembering the crucifixion of Christ (the death of His body on the cross).

As often as you eat this bread "you show the lord's death until He comes" - was not a claim that Christ "is dead".

So what do you make of the apostle's contention that failure to discern the Lord's Body there may cause one to eat and drink damnation to himself?

He is arguing that to come together for the Lord's Supper in an irreverant non-serious manner is to act as if this memorial service regarding the death of Christ - by disrespecting the symbols of the dead Christ, the crucified Christ' body slain for the sins of the world - is to disrespect it.
It also didn't say that the square of the hypotenuse equals the sums of the squares of the other two sides.
True.
At least we do agree on something.
 
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Jipsah

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It was already addressed since John 6 is the context for that statement and not the other way around.
dance a little side step, now you see me, now you don't...
Well yes we have noticed that the John 6 statements by Christ were made long before the statements in 1 Cor 11 and are the context for them.
So you're not going to address 1 Cor 11 at all. Perfectly understandable.
This is irrefutable.
As well as irrelevant, unless evey word that St. Paul write is to be ignored, as they were written after out Lord had ascended.
John 6 states that Jesus is the bread that already came down from heaven.
1. Nobody denies that John 6 is not saying people were seeing bread fall from the sky
2. Nobody denies that Jesus did not look like bread to anyone standing there.
3. Nobody denies that Jesus was in fact not bread at all - as he stood there talking to the disciples in John 6.
That's nice. What we're talking about is that you deny that our Lord literally meant what He said: " Take, eat: this is my body, which is broken for you". Your sole theologically profound response being "Nobody bit Jesus". That doesn't even constitute a decent sidestep, but I reckon it that's all you've got, it's all you've got.

Jesus used bread as a symbol in John 6 just like He did in Matt 16
11 How is it that you do not understand that I did not speak to you about bread? But beware of the leaven of the Pharisees and Sadducees.” 12 Then they understood that He did not say to beware of the leaven of bread, but of the teaching of the Pharisees and Sadducees.

1 Cor 11 does not say "He that fails to suppose that Christ is inside this bread is eating in an unworthy manner"
I notice that you're a at all interested in responding to what it does in fact say, preferring the nearly infinite number of things that it doesn't say. But there's the dance again, "Now you see me, now you don't".
The 1 Cor 11 statement is about the 1 Cor 11 fact "do this IN REMEMBRANCE of ME" -- literally true.
Ah, so you do believe some of that Scripture as written. I'm frankly amazed.
It is a memorial service, not a new sacrifice.
The "new sacrifice" tack is a new one, points for creativity there. It may have some relevance to the Roman Catholic reference to the Mass, but not being Roman Catholic I can't speak to that. As an Anglican, we believe that the bread and wine are His Body and Blood, as He said, and as you deny.

It is about remembering the crucifixion of Christ (the death of His body on the cross).
And sip of Welchade and a nibble of Kroger baguette. Upon the taking of which one may find that they've eaten and drunk damnation if they have failed to discern the Body of Christ, which you explicitly deny is present at all. Hmmmm...
As often as you eat this bread "you show the lord's death until He comes" - was not a claim that Christ "is dead".
You appear to be pulling stuff out of hyperspace there.

He is arguing that to come together for the Lord's Supper in an irreverant non-serious manner is to act as if this memorial service regarding the death of Christ - by disrespecting the symbols of the dead Christ, the crucified Christ' body slain for the sins of the world - is to disrespect it.
Following your lead, I notice the complete absence of the word "symbol" or any synonyms thereof in 1 Cor 11. (I wonder if anyone bit St Paul?)
At least we do agree on something.
I've begun to have my doubts about that.
 
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