The RCC is NOT a denomination

[Abrahamist]

The RCC, the Orthodox and Protestantism are all branches of Christianity. Protestantism is further divided up into denominations while the RCC and the Orthodox are not.

The difference between branches and denominations is branches are operating under fundamentally different theories about what Christianity is. There are numerous ways of applying the protestant theory and the different applications of the protestant theory are the denominations. The general theories the Orthodox and the RCC, however, do not allow for different applications of their respective general theory and so don't allow for denominations.

Another way of looking at it (to borrow the language of biology) is that Christianity is the family, Orthodox, Catholic and Protestant are the species and the different denominations under protestantism are different subspecies.

CaliforniaJosiah keeps claiming that the RCC is a denomination. This is like claiming that foxes and wolves are different subspecies because they both fall under the family of canidae but a fox is actually a different species all together from a wolf.

The reason this is important is because assuming that the RCC is a just another denomination is to assume that it follows and operates under the same general theory as the protestant denominations. Since this is not the case at all, assuming that it is the case will not lead one to a correct understanding of the RCC.

 

[OpenDoor]

Which is the sub-group Christianity or Catholicism? (you actually answer this in your first sentence)

 

[Abrahamist]

Which is the sub-group Christianity or Catholicism?

It depends entirely upon your use of the word group. If Christianity is the group, then Catholic would be the subgroup. Protestant is another subgroup and the different Protestant denominations are whatever term you use to designate different "sub-sub-groups."

 

[Hentenza]

All mainstream churches are subgroups of Christianity. None are a "denomination".

 

[OpenDoor]

It depends entirely upon your use of the word group. If Christianity is the group, then Catholic would be the subgroup. Protestant is another subgroup and the different Protestant denominations are whatever term you use to designate different "sub-sub-groups."

Which is a denomination. Unless the RCC thinks Christianity IS Catholicism then it is a Christian denomination.

 

[Thy WORD is TRUTH]

I think it's a lot simpler.

In Christ

Lost

All that matters in the end.

 

[SpiritualAntiseptic]

Which is a denomination. Unless the RCC thinks Christianity IS Catholicism then it is a Christian denomination.

All Christians are part of the Catholic Church. Christianity subsists within the Catholic Church.

 

[razeontherock]

The RCC, the Orthodox and Protestantism are all branches of Christianity. Protestantism is further divided up into denominations while the RCC and the Orthodox are not.

The difference between branches and denominations is branches are operating under fundamentally different theories about what Christianity is.

No we're not. The main difference is you think by virtue of being an RC, that you get to make up definitions and everyone else has to abide by those.

We don't.

There are numerous ways of applying the protestant theory and the different applications of the protestant theory are the denominations.

There is no "Pr theory." Is this something you heard your Priest give a sermon on?

The general theories the Orthodox and the RCC, however, do not allow for different applications of their respective general theory and so don't allow for denominations.

There are divides within both lungs equivalent to the divides within Pr. (And I still didn't have to use your branch word

Semantics really don't deserve to be all the rage

 

[Abrahamist]

Which is a denomination. Unless the RCC thinks Christianity IS Catholicism then it is a Christian denomination.

No it's not. The difference between between Catholicism and the different protestant denominations is on a deeper level than the difference between the denominations. Catholicism is operating under an all together different fundamental theory of Christianity.

If a persons goes from one protestant church to another, the only change that is required is that that person exchanges some doctrine for some other doctrine but their general concept of what it means to be a Christian remains unchanged. They switch denominations because they think that one way expresses that general concept better than another way.

If a person goes from Protestant to Catholic, a person has to learn an all together different way of thinking about Christianity. They might not necessarily even change any of their doctrine but instead change the reasons why they hold those particular doctrines to be true.

For example, a Baptist can switch over to a Church of the Nazarene with little or no difficulty. He'll have to exchange one list of doctrinal specifics for another but the practice is still basically the same and he wont have to entirely relearn Christianity from the ground up because they share the same basic idea of what it meas to be a Christian.

The same Baptist, though, switching over to the Church will have to leave his entire concept of Christianity beyond the Trinity behind and learn an entirely different way of thinking about and practicing Christianity.

 

[Standing Up]

The RCC, the Orthodox and Protestantism are all branches of Christianity. Protestantism is further divided up into denominations while the RCC and the Orthodox are not.

The difference between branches and denominations is branches are operating under fundamentally different theories about what Christianity is.

RC, EO, OO, and P all operate under different theories. They're all denominations according to your definition.

 

[razeontherock]

If a persons goes from one protestant church to another, the only change that is required is that that person exchanges some doctrine for some other doctrine

Who's telling you this nonsense?

If a person goes from Protestant to Catholic, a person has to learn an all together different way of thinking about Christianity.

Again, who's telling you this nonsense? Jesus shed the same blood for us all

 

[Abrahamist]

No we're not.

Yes we are.

Here are some of fundamental differences:

Catholicism is a communal religion. Protestantism is an individualist religion.

Catholicism has a specific and defined hierarchy. Protestantism does not.

Catholicism believes Jesus started the Church and the Bible is based upon the Church. Protestants believe that the Church is based upon the Bible (and ignore the question of where the Bible came from).

Catholicism does not allow for private interpretation of scripture. Protestantism was founded upon private interpretation of scripture.

Catholicism teaches that the bread and wine really become the body and blood of Christ. The Protestants believe it is just symbolic.

Catholics observe by practicing the mass. The protestants sing some songs and preach a sermon.

In Catholicism, the alter is the center of worship. In Protestantism, the preaching is the center of the service.

Catholics believe that Jesus actually started and organized a real literal Church. The Protestants believe that Jesus introduced the church as an abstract concept.

Catholics believe that the Church started during Jesus' lifetime and has an unbroken history from then all the way to the present day. Protestants that shortly after the 1st generation of apostles died out, the church disappeared for 16 to 19 centuries before resurfacing.

Catholics believe salvation is a life long process. Protestants believe it comes in an instant.

The only thing that qualifies Catholics and Protestants as even being the same religion is that we both believe in the Trinity and that Jesus died for our sins and rose again on the third day and that we share part of the same Bible.

But we disagree on almost everything that Bible says.

The main difference is you think by virtue of being an RC, that you get to make up definitions and everyone else has to abide by those.

We don't.

I grew in protestant churches and what I am doing now so completely different on so many levels that the only way I could include protestantism in the same religion as I practice now is if I broaden the definition of the word Christian.

If Catholic was just another denomination within the same framework as the protestant churches, there is no way at all that I would be one.

There is no "Pr theory."

Yes there is. That theory is that the individual can interpret the scriptures for themselves.

Is this something you heard your Priest give a sermon on?

I thought this up myself in response to CaliforniaJosiah's continued insistence of referring to the Church as a denomination. Also, I grew up in protestant churches and that was an entirely different religion in all ways but name.

There are divides within both lungs equivalent to the divides within Pr. (And I still didn't have to use your branch word

Frankly, I don't know what you are talking about here. I'm not really addressing the difference between the different denominations. That's not what this thread is about.

Semantics really don't deserve to be all the rage

This isn't just about semantics but about communication and understanding.

You protestants keep referring to the Church as a denomination and then you treat the Church like it is just another denomination within protestantism and you keep getting everything wrong and your understanding of our religion seems to be no better than a creationists understanding of science.

We are not another protestant denomination and as long as you keep thinking we are, you are going to keep not knowing what you are talking about.

 

[Abrahamist]

Who's telling you this nonsense?

No one told me. I lived it

Again, who's telling you this nonsense? Jesus shed the same blood for us all

Again, I lived it. Before I became a Catholic, I had to learn to think of Christianity in a completely different way. And I assure you that if I had not, I would not have become a Catholic. There is NO way I would EVER be part of any religion that was like protestantism.

 

[hedrick]

I suggest using a bit of charity here. Protestants often use the term "denomination" rather than "church", because there is only one Church. The term denomination suggests, at least to me, different approaches within one body of Christ. Thus calling the Catholic Church means that it is, in fact, a real part of the one Church, just as we are.

This is actually a new and controversial position among Protestants, since the traditional position was the the Catholic Church is not a proper church at all. It's generally intended as a positive way of accounting for the Catholic Church within Protestant ecclesiology.

Catholics have ways of describing Protestants which are in fact far more negative. In official Catholic statements, Protestant churches are considered to be less than true churches. Catholics since Vatican 2 have more positive relationships with Protestants than in the past. There are a number of different ways in which the Catholic church recognizes Protestant churches as communions of Christians. However official terminology still does not accept that fully as churches.

Many Protestants understand that this is not being done with any intent to demean Protestants, but is a result of Catholic ecclesiology simply not being able to account for the divided situation that is currently present. However please realize that calling the Catholic church a denomination is actually a more positive way for Protestants to describe the Catholic Church within our own ecclesiology than the Catholic practice of referring to Protestant churches as something less than churches. If you are going to continue using your own ecclesiology in thinking about us, you should expect us to use our own ecclesiology in thinking about you. Or is this kind of objectivity too much to expect?

 

[Lion King]

All Christians are part of the Catholic Church. Christianity subsists within the Catholic Church.

No, I am certainly not part of the roman catholic church. I do not pray to Mary, nor do I call the guy in charge of the RCC by the title of "Holy-Father" (for I have one Father).

Roman catholic church is a denomination just like Jehovah witness, SDA, Mormon etc..

 

[Standing Up]

All Christians are part of the Catholic Church. Christianity subsists within the Catholic Church.

That is backwards per scripture and tradition. We were first called Christians at Antioch.

Denominations like Roman Catholic or Eastern Orthodox or Protestant came after.

 

[Tzaousios]

Roman catholic church is a denomination just like Jehovah witness, SDA, Mormon etc..

Interesting. So it is a denomination specifically like these, but not one like Baptists, Methodists, or Nazerene. Why is that?

 

[Fireinfolding]

That is backwards per scripture and tradition. We were first called Christians at Antioch.

Denominations like Roman Catholic or Eastern Orthodox or Protestant came after.

True

 

[Mikey123]

The Catholic Church is "The Church", not a denomination. Everything else, except Judaism came FROM the one true Church started by Jesus. They are all denominations.

 

[Lion King]

All mainstream churches are subgroups of Christianity. None are a "denomination".

The body of Christ is not divided. I'm just saying...

Sure, we could act like all "main-stream churches" are part of the body of Christ, say how we are all one in spirit and all that stuff. However, we both know that's not true and we are only fooling ourselves. I mean, has Christ been divided into subgroups?

Let's not kid ourselves, one only has to read Revelation 2 and 3 to understand what's coming, if we keep going along this path...