I just have to face the facts Jerry, and admit that you are a much better Christian than I am and you are better than I ever can be. You have made this very clear in our recent discussion.
I will always be a sinner saved by Grace.
I greatly appreciate your correction on this issue.
.
baberean2,
1. Face the facts; this has nothing to do with one being better than the other. That is a law mentality.
2. If you want to use the phrase a sinner saved by grace and it doesn't give you the mentality of can't help but sin attitude and it doesn't lead you to self effort that is up to you.
3. The point is that there is no where in the bible that teaches one is to sin everyday or has to or can't help but sin everyday.
4. There is no where in the bible that teaches one is to laud his maturity in Christ over another.
5. But for the grace of God any of us have the possibility to fall into sin. James said if one backslides one is to restore him and if he does then he saved that soul from a multitude of sins and a soul from death. He was talking to christians and called them a sinner and they were in the context of practicing in sin and staying in obedience because he shows the man in the mirror is the real person of who they are and what they do.
6. This is not a perfectionist doctrine of that one can never have the possibility to sin ever again. It is about living free in the freedom of Christ and his finished work and resting in him and allowing him to do the work and having joy in the trial for the joy of the Lord is our strength.
7. We are never told we will not have trials, testings, temptations, or tough struggles as in situations with great adversity. Paul said God has given us everything to overcome these situations and not sin.
8. At the same time we are not always perfect for whatever reason whether lack of faith, lack of fear, even stubborn moments where we argue with God and do our own thing. Yet God is patient and he knows every heart and where you have to get to and what it takes.
9. The problem with most christians is they want to stay in the defeated attitude about the flesh which ends up as a false humility and they live defeated more than overcoming.
10. How many countless people who are raised in church and leave because of this mentality that makes them live in sin and have division and they leave and make a better life without being a christian even though we know they are not saved.
11. To be honest this is not about a rebuke, this is about encouragement of a better way to live as an overcomer and I am even talking to myself.
12. I used to hate motivational speakers because there was nothing they thought couldn't be done. Now we know that they do have their faults but that doesn't daunt their outlook because they are at least looking at doing whatever to reach the goal. And we know they look to themselves and not God with many of them. Now I understand the overall principle and the more a christian lives in faith and overcomes the more the believing if faith comes in a greater measure. At the same time the devil is there to steal, kill, and destroy our lives. At the same time as Smith Wigglesworth put who consecrated his life without ceasing says I am not worried about the devil, it is men I fear more. Jesus himself destroyed the devil by quoting the scripture.
13. Many christians are looking towards the goal but put a "but" in their that stops them from reaching their goal and this is what the man in the mirror shows. The man in the mirror will show the truth of what we say we believe is true or not. We all believe God is our desire and that we have to have his strength to help us through but the man in the mirror if we are professors of our doctrinal belief or whether we really practice it.
14. One has to be open to the truth and it is between them and God. One has to deal with God and be dealt with by God.
15. How do I know this? By the word and even more by personal experience of how much I had failed God in times past. I have experienced God in ways of fellowshipping in full consecration and other times in utter distress.
16. It may take a person a long period of time to get there and others it may not depending on one's consecration toward's God.
17. Don't you try to teach your kids better and easier ways to over come things? Some times we have to go through trials for we are not promised a rose garden but who said we had to sin? If we do let us not dwell on it to the point of staying in it.
18. I have been around christians that lived for God but they had a stronghold in their life and thought it was alright. Strongholds are real and we most of us have them at one time or another but the bible doesn't say to live in it but to overcome it.
19. So the bottom line is either one has more of a conscience of sin or more of a conscience of God's strength to abstain and or overcome.
20. If you don't have this mentality then don't worry about it. At the same time don't be ashamed to understand you live free from sin when you abstain as an overcomer through the power of God because this why Paul could say he gloried only in the cross. He could say this because of his trials and tribulations that taught him patience. He had them initiated by the messenger of Satan to buffet him so he would not rise up in pride. He never said he was going to take Paul's trials away and nowhere does it say that he believed he was going to sin in those trials. I believe Paul would be correcting plenty way of christians of their view on sin.
21. So if you really think I am so bad to encourage christians to have a conscience on God's faith and strength and that there is a better way of the finished work and living free from sin more than living in sin because I am only human then so be it.
22. Anybody that teaches a christian can't help but sin because they are only human says to the conscience Satan has more power to keep one in sin that God has to keep from sin is not a christian doctrine. Romans 7 was Paul under the Mosaic law because the whole chapter is about the Mosaic law and the weakness was about because it couldn't save a person and it couldn't help a person to perform the commandment and because of the fact that the Holy Spirit wasn't given in full measure 24-7 the law of sin and death took advantage of it and made them live in the conscience of sin and in sin despite their desire.
23. Romans 8 says that law of sin and death that took advantage of the Mosaic law and made them live in sin despite their desire was done away with by the law of the Spirit.
Now we can get back in that same state of inconsistency if we use the law mentality of defeat.
24. This is the scriptural context fact beyond a shadow of a doubt. If you believe otherwise and you don't fall in that trap then fine.
25. The law was holy and good and that is not brought out how great the glory was but God made a new covenant that is more glorious and a better way because of the God-man Jesus Christ.
26. It is up to a christian to be transparent before God because only God will judge their heart in the end.
27. So I am sorry if I sound like I am condescending or whatever you may think but I am not really that at all and I have nothing against you personally because I don't know you at all except what you post about your doctrine.
28. A true bible doctrine is one that propels people into a closer walk with God and his power and a conscience, desire and being who they are and not doing. We do because of whose we are and his finished work in Christ which we agree with.
I think the main thing we disagree on is about living free from sin. You said you believed in living free from sin in positive moments with other believers or when you are witnessing or in some moment of special feelings and that is valid. The truth is that we can live free from sin going through a trial. In the presence of Jehovah kingdoms fall and strongholds you think can't come down will loosen and desires you think you never will get rid of will fade away and the conscience of how much the flesh can sin will become less and less until all you desire is God. This is a possibility.
29. We need to teach more of being who we are not what we are doing. This is what James taught with the man in the mirror shows if we are being and if we are we will be doing and the doing is the fruit of who we are in Christ. Are we living more to the flesh because of the fleshly mentality or more to God with the Godly mentality is the question and are we doing it the new covenant way of the Lord's finished work that we must ask ourselves and I know you would agree with this.
30. I totally agree that the super christian mentality is not scriptural and that is not what I believe. People must see God in us as an overcomer and strong in the Lord and not weak in the flesh. Tell me one time then show me as my old boss wrote the song and if it is who we are being the man in the mirror will show it as being and the work will be the fruit proof that we believe in being who we are in God and not ourselves.
31. I pray this helps. God bless you and I still love you in the Lord and wish you the best. Jerry Kelso