The Psychology of Religion

[jenny1972]

it bothers me that people respond with religious advice but they rarely suggest the obvious - go to a psychiatrist. Didn't Jesus criticize people who only "bless" a needy person instead actively trying to help that person?

psychiatry is the least religious of all medical specialties http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyatheist/2007/09/03/psychiatry-the-profession-of-atheists/

if you had psychological problems would you go to a mental health professional that did not share your atheist belief that God does not exist?
mental health therapy is based on the subjective opinion of the therapist not absolute scientific facts . atheist psychiatrists would be of the opinion that religious belief is nothing more than a delusion just as atheists in general believe and prescribe medication based on their subjective theory that you are delusional . This is the reason why people who believe in God are wary understandably about the psychiatric professions ability to accurately treat mental health issues.

As Jane above stated accurately Freud the father of modern psychiatry was one of the most famous anti-theists of the late 19th century and equated religious sentiment with neurosis or even psychosis and so do a lot of psychiatrists today make that subjective assumption . Nobody should go to go to a doctor that has inaccurate or incomplete information and lacks education regarding an illness that your suffering from because their diagnosis will then be inaccurate.

 

[lupusFati]

Funny you should bring that up, Jenny. I read recently about a woman who was forced to endure some counselling with a Christian, who was not allowed to seek one that met her religious needs/beliefs, and she had to do it or lose custody of her children (through no fault of her own, I might add).

Would you rather psychiatrists force their religious beliefs in some kind of blackmail scheme?
"You should pray with me and believe, or I'll tell the court you are incompetent after all."

 

[jenny1972]

Funny you should bring that up, Jenny. I read recently about a woman who was forced to endure some counselling with a Christian, who was not allowed to seek one that met her religious needs/beliefs, and she had to do it or lose custody of her children (through no fault of her own, I might add).
Would you rather psychiatrists force their religious beliefs in some kind of blackmail scheme?
"You should pray with me and believe, or I'll tell the court you are incompetent after all."

no of course i dont think religion should be forced on anyone or anyone should be forced to go to a christian therapist if they were a different religion , that sounds really strange and if you can find a link to the article id love to read it .
personal beliefs should not be forced on people dont you agree that athiest views shouldnt be forced on people who believe in God? or is that ok?

 

[lupusFati]

no of course i dont think religion should be forced on anyone or anyone should be forced to go to a christian therapist if they were a different religion , that sounds really strange and if you can find a link to the article id love to read it .
personal beliefs should not be forced on people dont you agree that athiest views shouldnt be forced on people who believe in God? or is that ok?

I agree. I'm very anti-religion and I believe it has hurt me severely, sure, but I agree others should be allowed the freedom to believe what they do. Otherwise I'm no better than they are.

Just don't force it on me or others. And don't use children for your religious/political propaganda, either (that happened at the mall where I live, is why I bring that up).

 

[jenny1972]

I agree. I'm very anti-religion and I believe it has hurt me severely, sure, but I agree others should be allowed the freedom to believe what they do. Otherwise I'm no better than they are.

im not a big fan of religion either i think the world would be a LOT better off without all religions . i was raised by atheists so i dont have the history with religion that you have growing up and as an adult i didnt go to church but became convinced of Gods existence in my 30's . I think religion is a plague and i hope someday humanity can be done with it altogether and just worship God instead of religion . I do think God has inspired people throughout history but God does that today too . do pagans believe in God or are you guys atheists?

 

[lupusFati]

im not a big fan of religion either i think the world would be a LOT better off without all religions . i was raised by atheists so i dont have the history with religion that you have growing up and as an adult i didnt go to church but became convinced of Gods existence in my 30's . I think religion is a plague and i hope someday humanity can be done with it altogether and just worship God instead of religion . I do think God has inspired people throughout history but God does that today too . do pagans believe in God or are you guys atheists?

You do know pagan is just a label and isn't some kind of religion right? It's actually a bit of a slur if anything.

I use it since one of the definitions was someone who doesn't subscribe to any mainstream religion. I don't take part in a religion but I am not atheist, either. I also believe my soul is a wolf.

The other labels... they don't seem to fit. I suppose it's a good question and that it matters you thought to ask, though.
Religion has hurt "us" quite severely though. Mentally.

 

[jenny1972]

You do know pagan is just a label and isn't some kind of religion right? It's actually a bit of a slur if anything.

I use it since one of the definitions was someone who doesn't subscribe to any mainstream religion. I don't take part in a religion but I am not atheist, either. I also believe my soul is a wolf.

The other labels... they don't seem to fit. I suppose it's a good question and that it matters you thought to ask, though.
Religion has hurt "us" quite severely though. Mentally.

i chose Non-Denominational because i believe the entire world and all religions should be " non denominational " meaning not separate , not divided by religions . feel free to PM me anytime im a good listener and im online a lot i promise i wont press my belief of God on you it is ok if you do not believe in God or if you do believe in God i can definately talk about that

 

[lupusFati]

i chose Non-Denominational because i believe the entire world and all religions should be " non denominational " meaning not separate , not divided by religions . feel free to PM me anytime im a good listener and im online a lot i promise i wont press my belief of God on you it is ok if you do not believe in God or if you do believe in God i can definately talk about that

It's more accurate to say I don't believe in your god. I do not discount the possibility of a god/s entirely.

 

[jenny1972]

It's more accurate to say I don't believe in your god. I do not discount the possibility of a god/s entirely.

I do believe there is just 1 God but i dont force my beliefs on anyone i dont believe its my job to convince anyone of anything , nor could i even if i tried , thats Gods job to convince you and until then nobody will believe , and i dont claim to know anything about God other than what God directly communicates to me i dont really have any certain religious view about God i just believe that God exists .

 

[Jane_the_Bane]

I don't have the details to hand, but I read a piece of research that postulated that religious people were more mentally healthy than the irreligious

I think the result wasn't "mentally healthier" but "more content":

Believing that there's a benevolent, all-powerful, invisible parent looking out for you, and that all your woe will be compensated for by a blissful afterlife once you're dead is a very effective coping mechanism.

Meditation and other forms of cultivating altered states of consciousness *do* seem to have a positive effect on mental health, however. Contrary to the Freudian notion that all such states are pathological in nature, there seems to be a profound difference between a schizophrenic's unraveling of the self and a shamanic trance - even though there might be superficial similarities.

 

[Aidan K]

I think the result wasn't "mentally healthier" but "more content":

Believing that there's a benevolent, all-powerful, invisible parent looking out for you, and that all your woe will be compensated for by a blissful afterlife once you're dead is a very effective coping mechanism.

Meditation and other forms of cultivating altered states of consciousness *do* seem to have a positive effect on mental health, however. Contrary to the Freudian notion that all such states are pathological in nature, there seems to be a profound difference between a schizophrenic's unraveling of the self and a shamanic trance - even though there might be superficial similarities.

Surely contentment is synonymous with mental health?

 

[seashale76]

Therapeutic soteriology and hesychasm is a part of Orthodox Christianity.

This book delves into the idea of how this was viewed by the Church Fathers (not so much the modern and secular view). It's been translated into English, but it brings the Philokalia down to a more accessible level.

 

[lupusFati]

I don't think being content is the same as being 'mentally healthy'. I know my mind isn't exactly 'balanced' but I find moments of contentment all the same.

I still feel broken, when all is said and done.

 

[Zstar]

Good to see this topic on the first page!

Just checking in skimming over some posts temporarily until I get the desktop fixed and can type better, it works but has a mind of its own just shutting down so got to sort through a couple boxes and see about a power supply and or motherboard. Also kinda saturated with data that I'm trying to grasp for a while also. However it's you also that make this writing medium worthwhile and functional by sharing so I appreciate all the words, wow! Thanks!

I think this topic could have a lot of potential to help resolve procedures how to practice a working model of the two of Psychology and Religion so concerned but happy to find the watched icon hoping the moderators keep this thread clean of drama per my request.

Just wanted to mention something on my mind to those interested about the key is to keep the rational outlook on going that fine tune the underlining thoughts. Dr. Burns came up with a neat template I’d like to share I found sorting through some files that has a set of questions regarding material. Apologies for the typos in the old document:

PRENTION AND PERSONAL GROWTH
1Understand why you got depressed,knowing how&why you got better,aquiring
self confidence&sel esteem,locating the deeper cause of your depression.The deeper cause is your silent assumptions.To bring these to light,under the automatic thoughts on the column ask "If this automatic thought were true,what
would it mean to me?Why would it be upsetting to me?,after you realize these assumptions at the root,you can then respond by identifying&responding to each one as you normally do-the questions un-earth the root of your problems!
A self-defeating belief system can remain below depressed&recovered states,
following is a list of the 7categories&beliefs-agreeing=-2,disagreeing= +2.The lower area scores is what to work on,the higher are your strengths.
APPROVAL
1Criticism will obviously upset the person who receives the criticism.
2It is best to give up my own interest in order to please others
3I need other peoples approval in order to be happy.
4If someone important to me expects me to do something,then I really should
5My value as a person depends greately on what others think of me
LOVE
6I cannot find happiness without being loved by another person.
7.If others dislike you,you are bound to be less happy
8.If people whom I care about reject me,it means there is something wrong with
me.
9.If a person I love does not love me,it means I am unlovable.
10.Being isolated from others is bound to lead to unhappiness.
ACHEIVEMENT
11.If I am to be a worthwhile person,I must be truly outstanding in at least one m
major respect.
12.I must be a usefull,productive,creeative person or life has no purpose.
13.People who have good ideas are more worthy than those who do not.
14.If I do not do as well as other people,it means I am inferior.
15.If I fail at my work,then I am a failure as a person.
PERFECTIONISM
16.If you cannot do something well,there is little point in doing it at all.
17.It is shameful for a person to display his weekness.
18.A person should try to be the best at everything he undertakes.
19.I should be upset if I make a mistake.
20.If I dont set the highest standards for myself,I am likely to end up a second rate person.
ENTITLEMENT
21If I strongly believe I deserve something,I have reason to expect I should get it
22.It is necessary to become frustrated if you find obsticles to getting what you
want.
23.If I put others peoples needs before my own,they should help me when I
need someything from them.
24.If I am a good husband,my wife is bound to love me.
25.If I do nice things for someone,I can anticipate they will respect me and treat
me just as well as I treat them.
OMNIPOTENCE
26.I should assume responsibility for how people feel and behave if they are
close to me.
27If I critisize the way someone does something and they become angry or
depressed,this means I have upset them.
28.To be good,worthwile,moral person,I must try to help everyone who needs it.
29.IF a child is having emotional or behavorial dificulties,this shows that the
childs parents have failed in some important respect.
AUTONOMY
30.I should be able to please everybody.
31.I cannot expect to control how I feel when something bad happens.
32.There is no point in trying to change upsetting emotions because they are a
valid and inevitable part of daily living.
33.My moods are primarily created by factors that are largely beyond my control
such as the past,body chemistry,or hormone cycles,biohythms,chance or fate
34.My happiness is largely dependant on what happens to me.
35.People who have the marks of success(good looks,social status,wealth or
fame)are bound to be happier than those who don't.

 

[Zstar]

For myself my faith is comforting also although I'm not sure what exactly to expect on the other side from such Religious texts as we are handed down but do believe there is more to it all. If God doesn't send Angels at every call or prayer doesn't imply to me there is no God. I commend the Pope and other Religious leaders for tolerance and progression. To choose ones God and Governing body is important, didn't it work good for the Zoroastrians of old? Who were the worshipers of Jesus that could bring gifts spoke of? Theories and what's plausible perhaps to some but to me my life's research. Not easy to me academics not my specialty but the possibility inspires myself thus hopefully others of Jesus and a Star of Bethlehem.

So many thoughts swirling in my mind with the 'W' word - war is an act to protect oneself (which I believe the Martial Arts was known in circles - I love Aikido by the way) but not a means to gain others Political Regions, ect. We all are Humans, everyone is important. Can we abolish disease and hunger? A prophet or seer could see a fully fed lion with a lamb in a vision. Maybe that's the meaning to the roots of our Faiths in essence, the Golden Rule that so many founders taught.

Just thinking some about all this, we can do it if we would just follow that one tenant and allow people who choose thus to settle and farm food and medicines among our lands and ourselves. The planet is just a part of the universe. Make the most out of logical science, it's just a tool to understand observations right? An Atheist, to their credit, is a student of reality I would say from what I gather. No evidences of God is not surprising to myself thinking the findings making sense if this God is outside Creation. What talents could bring about the Good our Prophets and Teachers spoken.

I love God and the idea that a Being could have this Paradise in another realm, waiting on Jesus to return. I try to gather knowledge about those Magi that they used to find a Star no one else could see. Suppose I'm trying to understand 2 world-views at the same time, Psychology and Science with Faith and Religion. So thankful to find a common teaching that to me could demonstrate the most believable request of a God for us in the Golden Rule. Diversity, that's nature's way.

If the dinosaurs could have migrated to another planet they could be under a fruit tree enjoying their scientific accomplishment. See until we figure out how to realistically reach for other planets great distances from us sudden destruction of our planet is but in the time of the natural processes of the Cosmos and Nature. So to the drawing board what you say? I miss the Space Shuttle but the new pods NASA has works great but the distance to other Galaxies is incredible.

I believe traces of what I would call evidence among Creation but think it's better to take Religion in the right direction, learning from what we find in History and the Sciences and getting back to the Roots of the Faith one has. To even not believe in God or nothing else such as Dimensions but just what we observe is commendable indeed but until we figure the Sciences out better probably just what you think about such a Creature could be out of alignment with what could possibly be found with more research. Raising our children to form logic without having to deny the G word because what’s unexplained currently. I've heard some of you mention it in the past - perhaps a type of Deism? I love Religion and Science, I hope Psychology can help me understand both a little better. Yes, sure its a possibility there’s not the form of God some speak of but as a sustainer beyond the magnetic fields in space my mind must leave that part of the equation a possibility. What began the process?

I'm here because I believe in Jesus and that a Being that would come to this place Earth as Magi legends told to understand and relate to those of this realm. I participate not to convert but to share what I find helpful as someone interested in who Jesus was and is and what did he want us to do? Amazing how the other Religions speak of that glimpse of Divine - love - to be considerate of others like you were them. Isn't God's eye on everything? Why? A time when God Judges fates? Reincarnation, EVP’s, ect. I wonder how all these pieces fit or if they are separate puzzles mixed together. My world view is trying to evolve I guess, eclectic portions of this and that - been ask why not to follow my other religion altogether, it's that I love Jesus and the Words of Life in the Gospels. I feel divided sometimes but with Meditation try to keep Faith and Logic intact.

 

[Zstar]

What helps me with depression is cardio vascular exercise. It doesn't work for me unless I exercise fairly intensely for a little more than an hour. Walking isn't intense enough unfortunately.

Here is a video by a Buddhist monk Ajahn Brahm where he shares some insights into depression. I liked one saying in particular - "Joy! There is no happiness". To me this means: "life is utterly meaningless and nobody's life matters, but accepting that reality gives freedom"

Regarding the connection between religion and psychology, I would say that religion often inhibits psychological growth and sometimes exacerbates mental illnesses such as depression, OCD, bipolar. I see a lot of people on CF asking for help, and it bothers me that people respond with religious advice but they rarely suggest the obvious - go to a psychiatrist. Didn't Jesus criticize people who only "bless" a needy person instead actively trying to help that person?

Didn't want to glaze by your observations without giving you a decent comment nor do I of any one else. It's going to take time to delve deeper into this all.

The 'Freudian' type not studied it at all just the 'Cognitive' style. I wonder if it's much different do you know?

Thanks for the Tube link!

"What helps me with depression is cardio vascular exercise." Interesting!

My understanding of the teaching of Jesus you inquire about is doing things to get rewards either on Earth or Heaven - they are trying perhaps to me it would depend upon which Scriptures to attempt this with.

Books like Dr. Burns are out there, probably online too - perhaps we will compile a source eventually.

A good book recommendation I would prefer realizing not everyone would seek out a therapist although possibly information so it's a starting place.

 

[com7fy8]

I have been diagnosed with chronic undifferentiated schizophrenia and acute paranoia. I read the summaries. If I found something that I felt was really a wrong item, I would seek to stop doing that. If I found that my evaluators were prejudiced about something, I simply did not concern myself with that thing. But other things might really be wrong or selfish; so I would seek to change about those things.

But the secular psychiatric people might not say anything about what is right. They might only prescribe me a drug and never talk with me about what would be right.

But I have had Christians who I would say have been good examples for me, of how to get real with God and how to become a loving person. Real life examples have helped me a lot.

And now I have a church and a lady friend. If I spend time with people, this can set me up to have problems so I am tested and challenged to learn how to love and get strong so people can't get the better of me and make me flee. I trust God to make me strong and honest enough so I can stay with people and love them, instead of giving up on people and quitting and hiding, like I used to do.

Now it can be that certain people try to mess with me, but I stay with being gentle and pleasantly patient and kind; and maybe this shows them up so they flee. But I pray for God to have mercy on them and change them to know how to love and not retreat. And when I have an issue with my lady friend, I may first pray to fight against the bitterness which tries to get started, then see how I see things in peace. And then is when, often enough, once I am in peace and caring, I see that she was right, even doing something to be compassionate . . . while I just wanted something that was practical! When love wins like this, I like this