The Power of the Spirit, and Being Baptized in Holy Spirit

[Simon Crosby]

It is not a metaphor, it is literal. Even so much so that this psalm also describes God making his angels into wind, and also into fire,

Wind is matter: gas. Fire is a chemical reaction. Angels amd the Spirit are non-material. In the distant past, the immaterial nature of fire and wind were not known, so people mistakenly used the word "pneumatic" to that which was genuinely not pneumatic. However, this does not alter the divine truth of that matter.

If you can't understand these simple matters, how can you understand other greater matters? This is a very basic teaching of scripture. Holy spirit is indeed made of wind, hence why the same word "pneuma" is used for breath and for wind. Duh.

I fail to see how mocking someone's post or intelligence with a perjorative like "Duh" is going to be persuasive. Can we not have a more respectful standard of debate amd avoid ad hominems?

 

[cgaviria]

Wind is matter: gas. Fire is a chemical reaction. Angels amd the Spirit are non-material. In the distant past, the immaterial nature of fire and wind were not known, so people mistakenly used the word "pneumatic" to that which was genuinely not pneumatic. However, this does not alter the divine truth of that matter.



I fail to see how mocking someone's post or intelligence with a perjorative like "Duh" is going to be persuasive. Can we not have a more respectful standard of debate amd avoid ad hominems?

People mistakenly? So people inspired by holy spirit mistakenly spoke with the use of of the word "pneuma" as if they were idiots not knowing what they were saying? And somehow you know better about what a spirit is made of? Haha.

 

[Simon Crosby]

People mistakenly? So people inspired by holy spirit mistakenly spoke with the use of of the word "pneuma" as if they were idiots not knowing what they were saying? And somehow you know better about what a spirit is made of? Haha.

It is very offensive of you to laugh at members like that. I think you should apologise, and try to be more polite in future. I am willing to discuss this more with you, but only on the foundation of polite discourse.

 

[Hillsage]

If indeed the spirit is what you say it is, more than just a breath, as in where your being is, where do you suppose Jesus Christ was when he died, as according to one scripture his soul was in Sheol, yet in another he gave up his spirit, where was HE after his death, in Sheol according to scripture, or elsewhere according to you?

He was exactly where he said he was. He "commended His 'why has thou forsaken me' prodigal spirit" to the Father. This was necessary to restore spiritual fellowship with the Father, which was broken on the cross. Then Jesus' spirit, now being made alive in fellowship once again with the Father, went and fulfilled the Father's next assignment. His spirit preached to other spirits.

1PE 3:18 For Christ also died for sins once for all, the righteous for the unrighteous, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh but made alive in the spirit; 19 in which he went and preached to the spirits in prison,

All during this time His body was dead in the grave and His soul was asleep in sheol/OT and hades/NT.

YLT 1CO 15:55 where, O Death, thy sting? where, O Hades, thy victory?'
KJV 1CO 15:55 O death, where is thy sting? O grave, where is thy victory?

But God did not allow his body to see corruption/decay nor did he allow his soul to sleep, but instead He sent the life giving spirit of Christ back to resurrect his body/soul of Jesus. For it is the returned spirit that gives resurrection life to a dead body/soul.

 

[Hillsage]

It is very offensive of you to laugh at members like that. I think you should apologise, and try to be more polite in future.

I heartily agree with you Simon, but you are new here and will soon realize that for 'many here', it is all about fighting over correct doctrine and 'being right'. Never realizing that the purpose of 'true doctrine' is to grow godly in character...and not religious indoctrination. So just do as scripture warns us to...."know them by their fruit". And the fruit of the spirit is not 'the character traits that are bothering you', it is "loving, peaceful, joyful, patient ect."

 

[Strong in Him]

There are many who do not realize what holy spirit truly is, nor what he does when he enters the body. Holy spirit is a real being, that has thoughts, opinions, knowledge, and a will. He even prays for us when we do not know what we need, as it it said here,

Not only is he a real being, but he is in fact an angel, and not just one angel, but many angels, and to each believer is given a distinct holy spirit.

You are correct, up until this point.

One minute you are talking about the Holy Spirit as a real being, and referring to him as he - which is correct - the next you are talking as though he is plural, and demoting him to the status of an angel - which is not.

If the Holy Spirit were not God, he could not make us children of God, Romans 8:14, assure us that we have been adopted as God's children, Romans 8:16, and give us the new life needed to enter the kingdom of God, John 3:3. This would mean that Romans 8, and John 3 were false p also John 16 where Jesus promised the THE Holy Spirit would live in his disciples, lead them into all truth and teach them the things of God. If we only have a angel living inside is; we do not have God.

 

[cgaviria]

You are correct, up until this point.

One minute you are talking about the Holy Spirit as a real being, and referring to him as he - which is correct - the next you are talking as though he is plural, and demoting him to the status of an angel - which is not.

If the Holy Spirit were not God, he could not make us children of God, Romans 8:14, assure us that we have been adopted as God's children, Romans 8:16, and give us the new life needed to enter the kingdom of God, John 3:3. This would mean that Romans 8, and John 3 were false p also John 16 where Jesus promised the THE Holy Spirit would live in his disciples, lead them into all truth and teach them the things of God. If we only have a angel living inside is; we do not have God.

Angels are as gods, have you not read,

There the angel of the LORD appeared to him in flames of fire from within a bush. Moses saw that though the bush was on fire it did not burn up. (Exodus 3:2 [NIV])

And this angel spoke as God,

When the LORD saw that he had gone over to look, God called to him from within the bush, "Moses! Moses!" And Moses said, "Here I am." (Exodus 3:4 [NIV])

Even fallen angels are called gods,

"I said, 'You are "gods"; you are all sons of the Most High.' But you will die like mere mortals; you will fall like every other ruler." (Psalm 82:6-7 [NIV])

So certainly, holy spirit being an angel, would fit the description of being as God, and each believer receives a distinct holy spirit, hence why even we have this verse,

The spirits of prophets are subject to the control of prophets. (1 Corinthians 14:32 [NIV])

The same word "pneumata" is used in this verse,

Are not all angels ministering spirits sent to serve those who will inherit salvation? (Hebrews 114 [NIV])

All angels are also spirits, and to each believer is given a distinct spirit that is holy, which is actually angel.

Yet all angels are in subjection to Jesus Christ, and Jesus Christ is in subjection to the Father.

 

[Strong in Him]

All angels are also spirits, and to each believer is given a distinct spirit that is holy, which is actually angel.

Nope.
All the way through the NT the Holy Spirit is referred to in the singular - THE Holy Spirit. You even say this yourself and rightly say that HE is a being with knowledge and a will.
Jesus told his disciples that the Spirit would live in them, he also to them to wait until the Spirit was given to them before witnessing and proclaiming the Gospel. Nowhere did he say, "when you each receive your individual Holy Spirit - who is actually just an angel- you will be my witnesses." Nowhere does Paul say that we each have an individual Holy Spirit.

 

[cgaviria]

Nope.
All the way through the NT the Holy Spirit is referred to in the singular - THE Holy Spirit. You even say this yourself and rightly say that HE is a being with knowledge and a will.
Jesus told his disciples that the Spirit would live in them, he also to them to wait until the Spirit was given to them before witnessing and proclaiming the Gospel. Nowhere did he say, "when you each receive your individual Holy Spirit - who is actually just an angel- you will be my witnesses." Nowhere does Paul say that we each have an individual Holy Spirit.

Obviously I just showed you a scripture where spirits are demonstrated as plural. And even so, when the scriptures talk about a singular being, does it mean that it only applies to one man or all men?

The steps of a man are established by the Lord, when he delights in his way; (Psalm 37:23 [ESV])

The end of the matter; all has been heard. Fear God and keep his commandments, for this is the whole duty of man. (Ecclesiastes 12:13 [ESV])

The same with holy spirit, a singular reference does not mean there is only one holy spirit, there are many, as many as there are holy angels. Only the Father is omnipresent, not even Jesus Christ is omnipresent, so to say that a holy spirit is omnipresent to inhabit many bodies at the same time is really just speaking out of lack of knowledge not knowing what holy spirit really is.

 

[Strong in Him]

Obviously I just showed you a scripture where spirits are demonstrated as plural. And even so, when the scriptures talk about a singular being, does it mean that it only applies to one man or all men?


The same with holy spirit, a singular reference does not mean there is only one holy spirit,

It does when Jesus talks about THE Holy Spirit; the one who would be given to them after he had left them, the one they had to wait for. Paul also talks of one Holy Spirit. He says that without THE Spirit we are not sons of God; he talks of the assurance of the Spirit, the gifts of the Spirit, the fruit of the Spirit, the Spirit of the Lord, the Spirit who prays for us - all these are the Spirit of God; one Spirit.

No one, except you, teaches that THE Spirit of God is an angel, and actually there are many of them - enough for one per believer.

 

[cgaviria]

It does when Jesus talks about THE Holy Spirit; the one who would be given to them after he had left them, the one they had to wait for. Paul also talks of one Holy Spirit. He says that without THE Spirit we are not sons of God; he talks of the assurance of the Spirit, the gifts of the Spirit, the fruit of the Spirit, the Spirit of the Lord, the Spirit who prays for us - all these are the Spirit of God; one Spirit.

No one, except you, teaches that THE Spirit of God is an angel, and actually there are many of them - enough for one per believer.

Its in the scriptures buddy, even this prophecy in Isaiah says that the angel that guided the Hebrews was the holy spirit they grieved,

In all their distress he too was distressed, and the angel of his presence saved them. In his love and mercy he redeemed them; he lifted them up and carried them all the days of old. Yet they rebelled and grieved his Holy Spirit. So he turned and became their enemy and he himself fought against them. (Isaiah 63:9 [NIV])

Holy spirits are angels, and a singular reference, nor even a definite article means that there is only one spirit. Look at even this prophecy, it says "the angel", does that mean that there is only one angel? Obviously no. Sigh.

 

[Strong in Him]

Its in the scriptures buddy, even this prophecy in Isaiah says that the angel that guided the Hebrews was the holy spirit they grieved,


Holy spirits are angels, and a singular reference, nor even a definite article means that there is only one spirit. Look at even this prophecy, it says "the angel", does that mean that there is only one angel? Obviously no. Sigh.

Jesus clearly speaks of the Spirit as a singular being - you even said so yourself; you referred to HE, and talked of HIS will etc. Like I said, there is no Scripture which says that the Holy Spirit of God is an angel and we all get one each.
But if that's what you want to believe; go ahead.

 

[cgaviria]

Jesus clearly speaks of the Spirit as a singular being - you even said so yourself; you referred to HE, and talked of HIS will etc. Like I said, there is no Scripture which says that the Holy Spirit of God is an angel and we all get one each.
But if that's what you want to believe; go ahead.

You're hilarious. I just showed you the scripture demonstrating "spirits of the prophets" plural.... 1 Corinthians 14:32 which is the same "pneumata" word for "are not all angels ministering spirits", so all angels are these holy spirits given to each believer, causing the utterance of prophesying that the believers are in control of, Hebrews 1:14. And I also just demonstrated in Isaiah that an angel was referred to as a holy spirit, Isaiah 63:9-10. Only people that lack knowledge will read a scripture and think that a singular reference or a definite article means there is only one of that kind, when we clearly see that there are many spirits, some holy and some unclean, and that only the Father is omnipresent, so the only way that a spirit can inhabit multiple bodies is if there are multiple spirits to inhabit each of those bodies. Hello? Lets use some common sense here.

 

[Strong in Him]

You're hilarious. I just showed you the scripture demonstrating "spirits of the prophets" plural....

Each person has a spirit - small 's'. That includes God - ONE Spirit.
If there are a group of people, then you would say "the people's spirits, or the spirits of the people". That doesn't mean that each person has several spirits. The only people I know of who had many spirits, were those possessed by evil spirits, and Jesus cast them out.

Like in your other threads, you have interpreted one Scripture in one way, are making a doctrine of it, and insulting and belittling anyone who challenges you or who doesn't agree.

Common sense? How about accepting the words of our Lord Jesus Christ and his disciples who were taught by him? How about accepting the teachings that the church has held for almost 2000 years? I'm still waiting for that list of respected Christian theologians who teach that the trinity is a lie and Jesus was created.

 

[cgaviria]

Each person has a spirit - small 's'. That includes God - ONE Spirit.
If there are a group of people, then you would say "the people's spirits, or the spirits of the people". That doesn't mean that each person has several spirits. The only people I know of who had many spirits, were those possessed by evil spirits, and Jesus cast them out.

Like in your other threads, you have interpreted one Scripture in one way, are making a doctrine of it, and insulting and belittling anyone who challenges you or who doesn't agree.

Common sense? How about accepting the words of our Lord Jesus Christ and his disciples who were taught by him? How about accepting the teachings that the church has held for almost 2000 years? I'm still waiting for that list of respected Christian theologians who teach that the trinity is a lie and Jesus was created.

The spirits of the prophets isn't talking about their own spirits, or "breathes", as the breath of a man does not cause him to prophesy, it is the spirit being inside him that causes him to prophesy. Obvious. Read and learn and stop being so stubborn.

 

[Strong in Him]

Read and learn and stop being so stubborn.

You have no right to judge me as stubborn, especially as you have been asked a number of questions and won't answer.

Have a nice life.

 

[cgaviria]

You have no right to judge me as stubborn, especially as you have been asked a number of questions and won't answer.

Have a nice life.

Clearly if you're being shown scriptures contrary to your own belief by definition that is stubborn.

 

[Strong in Him]

Clearly if you're being shown scriptures contrary to your own belief by definition that is stubborn.

No it's not.
Stubborn is saying, "I KNOW what that Scripture means; I KNOW that cgaviria is correct, but I WON'T believe it. I refuse to consider it or admit that my interpretation may be wrong."

That sounds like someone not a million miles away, but it's not me.

 

[cgaviria]

No it's not.
Stubborn is saying, "I KNOW what that Scripture means; I KNOW that cgaviria is correct, but I WON'T believe it. I refuse to consider it or admit that my interpretation may be wrong."

That sounds like someone not a million miles away, but it's not me.

Stubborn is being presented with the scriptures proving you are wrong, and still believing what you believe. Tisk tisk tisk.

 

[Strong in Him]

Stubborn is being presented with the scriptures proving you are wrong, and still believing what you believe. Tisk tisk tisk.

You know, if I had the slightest inkling that what you were saying was true and I was tempted to read your blog for more info, I wouldn't do so on account of your rudeness.