The Perfect Church?

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swifteagle

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So, if you could make the perfect church (not the building but the people) what would it look like?

What would the church do or not do?

What would the governmental structure look like or would it have a governmental structure?

Who would get paid or would anyone get paid?

Who would preach the Word?

Just some questions I thought I'd pose to the group. Feel free to add your own.
 

BarbB

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Well, currently I'm a member of a church and also attending a home church. Of the two, the home church is definitely filling my spiritual needs at this time. So, 500 member organization with building, needs for $$$, and politics or 10 attendee tops home church where we all weep during worship and communion and spend the afternoon discussing the scriptures (no one preaches). I'm very much preferring the smaller church. Oh, no one's paid either - though we bring a covered dish dinner and put money in the pot for missions! :)
 
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swifteagle

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I am surprised at the lack of response to this thread. So many of you have had issues with "the church".

Some of you have said that some Pastors are fleecing the flock. Some of you have issues with organized religion. Some with lack of faith for healing, etc.

So come on...what does your "perfect church" look like?
 
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clareos86

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I'd like a really Spirit-led congregation. My church is fab, but it is quite a strict Church of Scotland so almost no time is allowed for the Holy Spirit.

I'd keep my current church's teachings - they are excellent.

I'd like a young minister who is able to be in touch with all age groups and accomodate the rising percentage of young people a bit more.

I'd love to have much more outreach and mission.
 
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Pointman7

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Diversity within the body of Christ is good. Go to any church you feel comfortable with thats within the boundaries of orthodox christian teaching. Until Jesus comes back no one church will satisfy us all. Changing our worship style or meeting place will never improve the people of God in their walk of santification anyway. Pastors need to obey the many commands of the New Testament and stop worshipping money and clothes or being men-pleasers. Pay them only minimum wage and this will weed out the glory seekers.
 
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CrazyforYeshua

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As long as there are people within the church, it will never be perfect.
But ya wanna know the secret to church, and how you get out of it everything God wants you to have?
You go to give, not to get. You go to serve, not be served. When the church gets that, church will be what it was meant to be.
 
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Pointman7

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Unfortunately, the church is structured in a lecture style format with stage entertainment on the side. Very little interaction, write a check, shake hands and go home. I like testimony nights and fellowship dinners. More bonding with other church members where one can discover their true needs and help.
 
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swifteagle

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Pointman7 said:
Unfortunately, the church is structured in a lecture style format with stage entertainment on the side. Very little interaction, write a check, shake hands and go home. I like testimony nights and fellowship dinners. More bonding with other church members where one can discover their true needs and help.

Welcome to CF, Pointman7! Thanks for replying to this thread! So are you saying that the church you attend doesn't have alot of personal interaction? I agree that if we are a "family" that we have to have a "family" atmosphere and opportunities to come together. Have you found that all the churches you have tried lack this? Just curious.
 
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talitha

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Well, thanks for this thread, my sisterscribe! :thumbsup:

The first thing that comes to mind is this scripture:

And when they had prayed, the place where they had gathered together was shaken, and they were ALL filled with the Holy Spirit and began to speak the word of God with boldness. And the congregation of those who believed were of one heart and soul; and not one of them claimed that anything belonging to him was his own, but all things were common property to them. And with great power the apostles were giving testimony to the resurrection of the Lord Jesus, and abundant grace was upon them ALL . For there was not a needy person among them, for ALL who were owners of land or houses would sell them and bring the proceeds of the sales and lay them at the apostles' feet, and they would be distributed to each as any had need.

hey, while I'm at it, let's look at the other one..... (the former from Acts 4 and the latter from Acts 2):

They were continually devoting themselves to the apostles' teaching and to fellowship, to the breaking of bread and to prayer. Everyone kept feeling a sense of awe; and MANY WONDERS AND SIGNS were taking place through the apostles. And all those who had believed were together and had all things in common; and they began selling their property and possessions and were sharing them with all, as anyone might have need. Day by day continuing with one mind in the temple, and breaking bread from house to house, they were taking their meals together with gladness and sincerity of heart, praising God and having favor with all the people. And the Lord was adding to their number day by day those who were being saved.

I think the governmental structure the Lord set up would be good - apostles, prophets, pastors, teachers, and evanglists - with everyone free to manifest the anointing of the Holy Spirit as He sees fit. I believe apostles and pastors are given by God as leaders for the congregations, and when they are not allowed for whatever reason to function in their full authority, the results are not good.

I believe it would be good for some people (apostles, etc, see above, also musicians and intercessors) to be set aside for the work of ministry, and that the others in the church should support them. The Lord recently had me studying the Levites and their portion; this concept seems good to me.

I believe that the main function of the pastors is to feed the flock in terms of preaching / teaching the Word, to teach them to feed themselves, and to guide them to function to their greatest capacity as a group and as individuals. Tall order. I think it's fine for them to delegate this responsibility from time to time, especially in the interest of training up new pastors out of the pool of newer believers and also when the Lord gives a message of teaching or prophecy or exhortation to another member of the congregation.

I think it's most important for someone to direct the spiritual traffic, so to speak, especially when there are many who desire to move in the spiritual gifts (as we should), and this falls often to either the pastor or the worship leader, or to both of them as a team.

WORSHIP of our Lord and King is something that I find very important, not only in gatherings of the congregation but also on an individual basis, and we can learn new songs and new ways of worshiping by attending larger meetings where worship is lead by several skilled people with a heart to magnify Christ.

I think it's important to gather not only with people of our own age and socioeconomic status and race etc, but also to gather in a more diverse group. When people "don't attend church", they often avoid true Christian fellowship and iron-sharpening-iron relationships with people who are not like themselves.

I think I'll shut up before I make this too long, let someone who's not like me talk, haha.....

blessings
tal
 
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swifteagle

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talitha said:
Well, thanks for this thread, my sisterscribe! :thumbsup:

The first thing that comes to mind is this scripture:

And when they had prayed, the place where they had gathered together was shaken, and they were ALL filled with the Holy Spirit and began to speak the word of God with boldness. And the congregation of those who believed were of one heart and soul; and not one of them claimed that anything belonging to him was his own, but all things were common property to them. And with great power the apostles were giving testimony to the resurrection of the Lord Jesus, and abundant grace was upon them ALL . For there was not a needy person among them, for ALLwho were owners of land or houses would sell them and bring the proceeds of the sales and lay them at the apostles' feet, and they would be distributed to each as any had need.

hey, while I'm at it, let's look at the other one..... (the former from Acts 4 and the latter from Acts 2):

They were continually devoting themselves to the apostles' teaching and to fellowship, to the breaking of bread and to prayer. Everyone kept feeling a sense of awe; and MANY WONDERS AND SIGNS were taking place through the apostles. And all those who had believed were together and had all things in common; and they began selling their property and possessions and were sharing them with all, as anyone might have need. Day by day continuing with one mind in the temple, and breaking bread from house to house, they were taking their meals together with gladness and sincerity of heart, praising God and having favor with all the people. And the Lord was adding to their number day by day those who were being saved.

I think the governmental structure the Lord set up would be good - apostles, prophets, pastors, teachers, and evanglists - with everyone free to manifest the anointing of the Holy Spirit as He sees fit. I believe apostles and pastors are given by God as leaders for the congregations, and when they are not allowed for whatever reason to function in their full authority, the results are not good.

I believe it would be good for some people (apostles, etc, see above, also musicians and intercessors) to be set aside for the work of ministry, and that the others in the church should support them. The Lord recently had me studying the Levites and their portion; this concept seems good to me.

I believe that the main function of the pastors is to feed the flock in terms of preaching / teaching the Word, to teach them to feed themselves, and to guide them to function to their greatest capacity as a group and as individuals. Tall order. I think it's fine for them to delegate this responsibility from time to time, especially in the interest of training up new pastors out of the pool of newer believers and also when the Lord gives a message of teaching or prophecy or exhortation to another member of the congregation.

I think it's most important for someone to direct the spiritual traffic, so to speak, especially when there are many who desire to move in the spiritual gifts (as we should), and this falls often to either the pastor or the worship leader, or to both of them as a team.

WORSHIP of our Lord and King is something that I find very important, not only in gatherings of the congregation but also on an individual basis, and we can learn new songs and new ways of worshiping by attending larger meetings where worship is lead by several skilled people with a heart to magnify Christ.

I think it's important to gather not only with people of our own age and socioeconomic status and race etc, but also to gather in a more diverse group. When people "don't attend church", they often avoid true Christian fellowship and iron-sharpening-iron relationships with people who are not like themselves.

I think I'll shut up before I make this too long, let someone who's not like me talk, haha.....

blessings
tal

Thanks, Tal!! I certainly appreciate and respect your opinions very much! I know that the people in our church agree with your perspective that the Pastor/leader needs to be able to be set aside to do the work of the ministry ~ which should be equipping the saints for works of service and especially to learn how to cultivate an intimate relationship with the Lord.

We need anointed worship and revelatory teaching and diversity in our churches, too.

Thanks for your post...a breath of fresh wind of the Spirit!

swifteagle
 
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Pointman7

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Thanks Swifteagle for the welcome, Its difficult to get a good balance in the size of a church. Small (5-100) gives a nice family enviroment with plenty of fellowship but you must go with the flow of the stronger personalities that dominate. Like a mother-in-law you don't like or gossip. Big churches (100-1000) allows a certain freedom but sacrifice of close knit group. I'm guilty of church hopping. I like the big church with all the frills and beautiful surroundings.
 
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FireOfGod

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swifteagle said:
So, if you could make the perfect church (not the building but the people) what would it look like?

What would the church do or not do?

What would the governmental structure look like or would it have a governmental structure?

Who would get paid or would anyone get paid?

Who would preach the Word?

Just some questions I thought I'd pose to the group. Feel free to add your own.
Something like what it says in Corinthians...

"What then, brothers? When you come together, each one has a hymn, a lesson, a revelation, a tongue, or an interpretation. Let all things be done for building up. If any speak in a tongue, let there be only two or at most three, and each in turn, and let someone interpret." - 1 Corinthians 14:26-27

Everyone would have a song or a hymn; a word of prophecy and interpretation, a lesson and a revalation. All would take a part, all would preach, all would prophesy and share revalation, etc. And at the end, everyone would be gone in the Spirit for hours. :D

:thumbsup:
 
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BarbB

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FireOfGod said:
Something like what it says in Corinthians...



"What then, brothers? When you come together, each one has a hymn, a lesson, a revelation, a tongue, or an interpretation. Let all things be done for building up. If any speak in a tongue, let there be only two or at most three, and each in turn, and let someone interpret." - 1 Corinthians 14:26-27


Everyone would have a song or a hymn; a word of prophecy and interpretation, a lesson and a revalation. All would take a part, all would preach, all would prophesy and share revalation, etc. And at the end, everyone would be gone in the Spirit for hours. :D

:thumbsup:


You know, maybe that's why the home church I attend is sooooo satisfying and rich! All of us take part, all contribute something and all partake of the blessings which accrue! To God be the glory! :clap:
 
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PastorMikeJ

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Pointman7 said:
Unfortunately, the church is structured in a lecture style format with stage entertainment on the side. Very little interaction, write a check, shake hands and go home. I like testimony nights and fellowship dinners. More bonding with other church members where one can discover their true needs and help.

AMEN!!!!!:groupray: :amen: :thumbsup:
 
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Pointman7

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Worship style can be defined in many ways because it encompasses the entire church function. Worship can be represented in singing, preaching, giving, praying, baptism, and even in church management. I believe the church needs to adapt to the changes in mainstream society or culture. This actually occurred in some churches: women preachers, contemporary music, dress style, and attitudes about traditions. Unfortunately, the world is changing too quickly, due to possibly end time events? Or maybe the world is experiencing merely a drastic moral decline that has happened in the past with many prosperous civilizations. Whatever the reason, this is coupled with massive technical advances giving humankind enormous power. The more power the need for more restraint in decision making and restraint is the fruit of moral responsibility.

The church must snap into action to not only pray for revival of backsliding brothers and sisters but also construct a different game plan to catch the rapidly drifting masses. People feeling more confident and comfortable with a godless society and who are gradually setting aside the true valuable things in life for the fast and temporary lusts of the flesh, pride of life and lusts of the eyes. This may be an old story of many generations but today I fear people are losing their basic moral ethics. Lying, broken promises, gossip and etc. seem to be a standard. Worship style needs to address issues facing the world, even possibly sacrificing its tax status and becoming somewhat political in its proclamation or exhortations to condemn godlessness in government.
 
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swifteagle

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So, how do you change a whole culture? How about starting with just your community. How do you change that? My intercessor's group has been praying for change in our community and looking for ways to bless people in our community, too. So many people think that if they talk to a christian then all they are going to hear from them is "God stuff". Well we can talk "God stuff" to them without them knowing it and win friends for the Kingdom. I have been cultivating friendships with people who know who I am (Pastor in the community) and I talk about what they want to talk about. Now people show up where I work for prayer because they know I will listen and not preach at them (not yet). When they get saved and into the church is the time that they will be ready for some preaching!

So, Pointman7, if you like big churchs with all the frills and stuff...do you believe in...the "T" word?

LOL ~ a very scary word around this forum.
 
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swifteagle said:
So, if you could make the perfect church (not the building but the people) what would it look like?

What she looks like now - the only Church .

What would the church do or not do?

Have a relationship with the Lord .

What would the governmental structure look like or would it have a governmental structure?

The Lord is all of the government that I see as being needed .


Who would get paid or would anyone get paid?

Paid for what ? Doing as the Lord leads them ? If so , wouldn't *all* be paid ? I see that as redundant . So , none .

Who would preach the Word?

Anyone who is led to share the Gospel to the nonchristians is welcome to do so at any time .
 
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