The Papacy, How did it really come about?

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LittleLambofJesus

Hebrews 2:14.... Pesky Devil, git!
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And again, nothing here that remotely touches the keys to the kingdom. There were many OT priests, specifically of the tribe of Levi, but there was only one bearer of the Keys - the King. The King, in his absence, charged the keys to the Prime Minister.
:) Ah yes. The Lion out of the Tribe of Judah vs the Lion out of the Tribe of Levi. What a match that is.

Order of Tribes in Revelation:

Reve 7........1. Judah = "I will praise the Lord" 2. Reuben = "He has looked on me" 3. Gad = "Granted good fortune" 4. Asher = "Happy am I" 5. Naphtali = "My wrestling" 6. Manasseh = "Making me to forget" 7. Simeon = "God hears me" 8. Levi = "Joined to me" 9. Issachar = "Purchased Me" 10. Zebulun = "Dwelling" 11. Joseph = "God will add to me" 12. Benjamin = "Son of His right hand"
 
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williamcobbet

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in my humble opinion, the "Holy Spirit" came to Earth at Pentecost,departed when Constantine came to power in the fourth century and returned at the Protestant reformation in the sixteenth century. He indwells the Protestant Church only and the Roman Church is now only a relic of the "pre Luther" days. since it wouldn't change at Luther's urging, the RCC has been on it's own path for centuries now, and is very much NOT a part of God's original plan.
I know this is not accepted by RCC's but it's my view.

tnx,
Which one of the 30,000 Protestant Churches is the Holy Spirit in?
 
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Rick Otto

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quote=Technocrat2010; There is no legit papacy unless Jesus is our permanent king - which He is.
& who did you replace Him with as High Priest in your insecurity over His physical absence?
Mt 28:20 - Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen. Quote:
Heb 3:1 - Wherefore, holy brethren, partakers of the heavenly calling, consider the Apostle and High Priest of our profession, Christ Jesus;


The point of citing this passage is...?
Illustrating the redundancy of the papacy, regardless of the fact that Christ's sacrifice retired the model it follows.
Quote:
Techno: He gave Peter the Keys, which was analogous to the position of the Prime Minister in the OT Davidic Kingdom.
The analogy isn't false, but your application of it is.
Please demonstrate.
David=1 authority, 1 key. 12 Apostles=multiple keys.
David was succeeded, Jesus was not.
David's authority was human, Jesus' is divine.
You have "high priest" and "Prime Minister" mixed up.
I don't think so. They are combined in both David & Jesus.
We are indeed a priesthood of believer
Then each believer has consecrating authority if he holds the truth in righteousness.
However, Hebrews is not speaking of the end of the Levitical priesthood but rather the fulfillment of the Levite priests through the NT antitypes of Church priests/presbyters, bishops, etc.
Semantics as rhetoric.
The butterfly is both the end & fulfillment of the caterpillar. You can't make a silk purse (divine infallability) out of a sow's ear (human flesh).

Your argument is similar to Korah's argument in the NT when he rebelled against Moses for the same reasons - that the divine priesthood of all believers, he erroneously concluded, meant that there was to be no separate order of hierarchy.
He was ahead of God's time.

Hebrews is not demolishing the OT priesthood
I agree. It illustrates how the fulfillment of it completely changed the definition of the priesthood.
- it is highlighting the importance placed upon a person with the role of a priest (in this case, Melchizedek).
...and every believer.
Incidentally, Melchizedek is used here as a typological reference to the NT High priest, which is Jesus. The "change in law" is referring to the fact that in the OT time, only descendants of the house of Levi became priests. Jesus was a descendant of the house of Judah. In order for Him to become a Priest, let alone a "High" Priest, and in order for anyone else to take on such a mantle, there must have been a fulfillment of the OT Levite law. This does not mean we are all priests in the same typological manner as Korah suggested. This means that just as the Levite priests, a specific group of people, upheld the Mosaic Law, so now we have our current Church priests, who uphold the New Testament Law.
...every believer.

Have a look at numbers 16. ;)
It's 2am & there's 36 chapters...:cool:

And again, nothing here that remotely touches the keys to the kingdom. There were many OT priests, specifically of the tribe of Levi, but there was only one bearer of the Keys - the King. The King, in his absence, charged the keys to the Prime Minister.[/quote]
Key, not keys. You have confused the two kingdoms, as well as the differing natures of their kings.
 
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williamcobbet

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Which one is He not?
According to what I just read, the Holy Spirit left the Catholic Church in the fifth century. (Because it was very bad). In the 16th Century it entered the Protestant Churches.
There are many differences in the Protestant Churches in how they believe. Why do you think the Holy Spirit would be in Churches that disagree with what the truth is? Doesn't sound like the Holy Spirit that I am familiar with.

Let's face the facts or lack of them. Show me the data you have on how the Holy Spirit leaving our Church.
 
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williamcobbet

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What makes perfect sense is letting you alone to sink in your willful ignorance.

By your own adolescent reasoning, Jesus must have stripped Peter of the keys to have had them when John wrote the revelation. Peter must have screwed somehow and you guys weren't informed.


I'm old enough to remember 35 to 40 years ago. All the Protestants were hot after converting the Catholics to their brand of Protestantism. They were very successful.
The reasons they were successful was because the Protestants were friendly, as long as you agreed with them and also because the vast majority of Catholics were ignorant of the Bible and their own Faith.

The tide has obviously turned. There are more Catholics than ever that know their Faith. Ormly is a perfect example of a Protestant that knows when he has been beaten. This is why he uses such phrases as "sinking into our wilful ignorance".

How much does it take to understand that Peter was given 'the keys'. It's obvious. What is there to argue about.

Sad but true!!
 
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