The new GOP Bill. "Protect Life Act"

[brindisi]

When I was a child I was told I should be happy to eat my vegetables because the euthanasia were starving and wished they could have such wonderful food.

That's actually funny. Someone has to give you a thumbs up.

 

[Rocky1960]

Well a lot of people want to cut welfare. Exactly what are these children going to do to live.

You do realize, do you not, that welfare was created in the 1960's right? And that things have only gotten worse for people as a result, right?

How on earth did people ever survive before the 1960's. How did we ever win WWI and WWII and design missiles and washing machines and refrigerators and all that other neat stuff without WELFARE!

Lord have mercy, this nation has created a generation of people who could never survive without iPods, electricity, and government handouts. How truly sad. I'm glad I won't live to see what sort of generation comes forth from their loins.

 

[Notamonkey]

So if someone broke into your house with the intent of killing your children and shooting them was the only way to stop them, you wouldn't do it if it meant you might kill them? Since people like to bring up Hitler on here I think it should also be mentioned that killing him would have saved a lot of lives.

First of all, if someone broke into my house, I wouldn't try to interview them to determine what their goals are. I would shoot to kill. Even if he broke in for a cup of coffee, it wouldn't matter because I don't know nor am willing to hope that is all he wants.

something=not human
someone=human

Babies in the womb aren't dictators. And Dietrick Bonhoeffer(Pastor) lead the only organized resistance against Hitler in Germany, he was executed for conspiring to kill Hitler and he was first a pacifist.

So, if you think Christians in general think killing and murder are the same, you are sadly mistaken.

 

[lux et lex]

That would be preferable to crushing its skull and sucking it out with a Shop-Vac.

1. You obviously know nothing about the actual abortion procedure

2. Thank you. If I find myself pregnant I will make sure to drink a fifth of Morgan nightly and smoke a pack or two a day. It's what the pro-lifers would want me to do!

 

[SOAD]

You do realize, do you not, that welfare was created in the 1960's right?

Wrong. There were welfare systems in place in the 1930's.

 

[lawtonfogle]

So once again it would be better to conveniently get rid of them?

Dead fetuses in the clinic are less of a health risk than dead children in the street. Personally I say we should avoid both, but if others are forcing us to pick one or the other...

 

[lawtonfogle]

You do realize, do you not, that welfare was created in the 1960's right? And that things have only gotten worse for people as a result, right?

How on earth did people ever survive before the 1960's. How did we ever win WWI and WWII and design missiles and washing machines and refrigerators and all that other neat stuff without WELFARE!

Lord have mercy, this nation has created a generation of people who could never survive without iPods, electricity, and government handouts. How truly sad. I'm glad I won't live to see what sort of generation comes forth from their loins.

Child welfare existed a long time before that.

But back in the day, do you know what families did to survive before there was welfare to help children? Daughters were sold, often quite young, and the money was used to help raise sons. Actually, this still happens in some third world countries. Industrialization and socialized education and child welfare are some of the best ways to end most child marriage.

 

[lawtonfogle]

Of course I would prefer that she not endanger the fetus, but killing it is not the better option.

So would you not prefer it enough to make laws against her endangering it? Why or why not?

 

[jayem]

Here's my personal story re. abortion for medical reasons:

My wife got pregnant about 6 months after our marriage. She began having problems almost immediately--severe headache; much greater than usual abdominal swelling, pain, and fluid retention; and--worst of all--almost constant nausea with frequent vomiting. Some days she'd just barf everything she ate--she needed IV fluids on one occaision. High doses of medication didn't really control it. An ultrasound confirmed polyhydramnios and was consistent with major fetal anomalies--including a probable heart defect and an omphalocele (organs outside the body.) The OBs couldn't give an exact diagnosis, but they estimated about a 10% chance that the pregnancy could go to term. And they wouldn't speculate at all if the baby could survive if it was born. I am a health care provider myself, affiliated with a major medical school and teaching hospital. I know that medical specialists are fallible, but there was no doubt in my, or my wife's mind that this definitely was a non-viable pregnancy. And there was no way that, as sick as she was, I would let her continue this pregnancy to it's natural outcome. So we terminated by suction curettage at 12 weeks. Of course, it was sad and very disappointing, but it was absolutely the right decision for us. I won't argue with anyone who disagrees, and thinks our decision was morally wrong. But I will argue with anyone who thinks that the state should legislate that decision out of our hands.

 

[Notamonkey]

Here's my personal story re. abortion for medical reasons:

My wife got pregnant about 6 months after our marriage. She began having problems almost immediately--severe headache; much greater than usual abdominal swelling, pain, and fluid retention; and--worst of all--almost constant nausea with frequent vomiting. Some days she'd just barf everything she ate--she needed IV fluids on one occaision. High doses of medication didn't really control it. An ultrasound confirmed polyhydramnios and was consistent with major fetal anomalies--including a probable heart defect and an omphalocele (organs outside the body.) The OBs couldn't give an exact diagnosis, but they estimated about a 10% chance that the pregnancy could go to term. And they wouldn't speculate at all if the baby could survive if it was born. I am a health care provider myself, affiliated with a major medical school and teaching hospital. I know that medical specialists are fallible, but there was no doubt in my, or my wife's mind that this definitely was a non-viable pregnancy. And there was no way that, as sick as she was, I would let her continue this pregnancy to it's natural outcome. So we terminated by suction curettage at 12 weeks. Of course, it was sad and very disappointing, but it was absolutely the right decision for us. I won't argue with anyone who disagrees, and thinks our decision was morally wrong. But I will argue with anyone who thinks that the state should legislate that decision out of our hands.

I wouldn't judge you or your wife in this decision. I wasn't in your shoes, and yes, doctors aren't always right. I have heard of woman and their husbands continue with a high risk pregnancy and both lived. And a few were the mother died giving birth. By the same token I wouldn't judge the woman's decision in those cases.

 

[brindisi]

Here's my personal story re. abortion for medical reasons:

My wife got pregnant about 6 months after our marriage. She began having problems almost immediately--severe headache; much greater than usual abdominal swelling, pain, and fluid retention; and--worst of all--almost constant nausea with frequent vomiting. Some days she'd just barf everything she ate--she needed IV fluids on one occaision. High doses of medication didn't really control it. An ultrasound confirmed polyhydramnios and was consistent with major fetal anomalies--including a probable heart defect and an omphalocele (organs outside the body.) The OBs couldn't give an exact diagnosis, but they estimated about a 10% chance that the pregnancy could go to term. And they wouldn't speculate at all if the baby could survive if it was born. I am a health care provider myself, affiliated with a major medical school and teaching hospital. I know that medical specialists are fallible, but there was no doubt in my, or my wife's mind that this definitely was a non-viable pregnancy. And there was no way that, as sick as she was, I would let her continue this pregnancy to it's natural outcome. So we terminated by suction curettage at 12 weeks. Of course, it was sad and very disappointing, but it was absolutely the right decision for us. I won't argue with anyone who disagrees, and thinks our decision was morally wrong. But I will argue with anyone who thinks that the state should legislate that decision out of our hands.

You and your wife made a very difficult decision after serious thought. I wouldn't judge you, nor would I want anyone involved in that decision other than your wife, you, and the doctor.

 

[Rocky1960]

Here's my personal story re. abortion for medical reasons:

My wife got pregnant about 6 months after our marriage. She began having problems almost immediately--severe headache; much greater than usual abdominal swelling, pain, and fluid retention; and--worst of all--almost constant nausea with frequent vomiting. Some days she'd just barf everything she ate--she needed IV fluids on one occaision. High doses of medication didn't really control it. An ultrasound confirmed polyhydramnios and was consistent with major fetal anomalies--including a probable heart defect and an omphalocele (organs outside the body.) The OBs couldn't give an exact diagnosis, but they estimated about a 10% chance that the pregnancy could go to term. And they wouldn't speculate at all if the baby could survive if it was born. I am a health care provider myself, affiliated with a major medical school and teaching hospital. I know that medical specialists are fallible, but there was no doubt in my, or my wife's mind that this definitely was a non-viable pregnancy. And there was no way that, as sick as she was, I would let her continue this pregnancy to it's natural outcome. So we terminated by suction curettage at 12 weeks. Of course, it was sad and very disappointing, but it was absolutely the right decision for us. I won't argue with anyone who disagrees, and thinks our decision was morally wrong. But I will argue with anyone who thinks that the state should legislate that decision out of our hands.

I am sure I am going to catch hellfire for this, but:

You are a healthcare provider. Tell me please, regarding the 10% chance that you mentioned in your story: Would you tell a patient of yours, "You only have a 10% chance of living, so just go ahead and kill yourself." Is that sound medical advice?

Or let's say you take your sailboat out to sea and get caught in a storm. The Coast Guard estimates you have a 10% chance that you'll make it, so they just write you off and don't bother to rescue you. How would you feel about that?

Your story indicates to me a possible underlying attitude, that the baby - BABY - in the womb is not a full fledged person like you and I are and therefore need not be given every chance as you and I would expect to be given. Am I correct?

 

[laconicstudent]

I lol at the fact that Lux et lux is the only woman posting in this thread, and really, the only one of us who has any right to an opinion on this, since she is the only one of us with the possibility of being pregnant and being faced with this choice.

But I suppose being an armchair health expert is fun.

 

[Notamonkey]

I lol at the fact that Lux et lux is the only woman posting in this thread, and really, the only one of us who has any right to an opinion on this, since she is the only one of us with the possibility of being pregnant and being faced with this choice.

But I suppose being an armchair health expert is fun.

Thankfully you are not one with any authority to determine what my rights are.

 

[laconicstudent]

Thankfully you are not one with any authority to determine what my rights are.

I wouldn't even dream of trying, and it becomes ironic then that a bunch of men are here arguing that we should take away womens' rights, then.

 

[jamesrwright3]

Dead fetuses in the clinic are less of a health risk than dead children in the street. Personally I say we should avoid both, but if others are forcing us to pick one or the other...

So premeditated murder should be less of a crime than manslaughter?

 

[jamesrwright3]

1. You obviously know nothing about the actual abortion procedure

2. Thank you. If I find myself pregnant I will make sure to drink a fifth of Morgan nightly and smoke a pack or two a day. It's what the pro-lifers would want me to do!

I do not a lot about abortion procedures. That is just one of many of them depending on the age of the fetus. Glad you respect life so much.

 

[jamesrwright3]

So would you not prefer it enough to make laws against her endangering it? Why or why not?

We already have laws against it. I was being a realist in saying that I would prefer to take the chance of a birth defect rather than kill a child which creates death 100% of the time.

 

[Rocky1960]

I lol at the fact that Lux et lux is the only woman posting in this thread, and really, the only one of us who has any right to an opinion on this, since she is the only one of us with the possibility of being pregnant and being faced with this choice.

That is one of the most absurd things I have ever heard. Protecting children is EVERYONE'S business! Furthermore, many of us are fathers and have as much "right" an opinion on the subject as anyone else has.

 

[purpledolphin8402]

I lol at the fact that Lux et lux is the only woman posting in this thread, and really, the only one of us who has any right to an opinion on this, since she is the only one of us with the possibility of being pregnant and being faced with this choice.

But I suppose being an armchair health expert is fun.

Um, I'm a woman too and I started this thread...