The Meaning Of Repentance

[startrekfan1]

Baptism is not necessary for salvation. If it is, then Jesus is a liar and the thief on the cross went to Hell. Since we know that Jesus is not a liar, then we know the thief on the cross went to heaven. Baptism is an act of obedience and public declaration of faith, but is not an act of salvation. You cannot work your way to salvation. You cannot earn your way to salvation. You cannot pay your way to salvation. Only belief in the risen Jesus Christ will save you. And even then your salvation is a gift from God. God saves us, we cannot save our selves. Give up what you believe is your right to your self.

I commend you for working out your salvation but please, brother, let go of the thought that you can cross the T's and dot the I's to salvation. You cannot. Believe in Jesus Christ, risen Savior. Surrender to him. Doubt is natural because the gift is so incomprehensibly GREAT. As wretched as we ALL are, sinner and saint alike, how could we do anything to receive such a gift as salvation? We cannot. God saves, and we thank Him with wonder and fear and love and awe! It is amazing to think He loves us so much. I think sometimes that causes us to doubt because the gift is so great and we did nothing to earn it or receive it. Yet God has given us the gift of eternal life. Even now as I type this I am reminded again to be thankful... oh so thankful... what a wonderful gift it is.

Luke 23:39-43
Then one of the criminals who were hanged blasphemed Him, saying, “If You are the Christ, save Yourself and us.”
40 But the other, answering, rebuked him, saying, “Do you not even fear God, seeing you are under the same condemnation? 41 And we indeed justly, for we receive the due reward of our deeds; but this Man has done nothing wrong.” 42 Then he said to Jesus, “Lord, remember me when You come into Your kingdom.”
43 And Jesus said to him, “Assuredly, I say to you, today you will be with Me in Paradise.”

The thief was not baptized. The thief did not partake of the Lord's supper. He didn't repent. He didn't do good works. He died a wretched soul hanging on a cross. The only thing he did was believe.

John 20:30-31
30Jesus did many other miraculous signs in the presence of his disciples, which are not recorded in this book. 31But these are written that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and that by believing you may have life in his name.

This is where we are going to have to agree to disagree, because I believe that baptism is necessary for salvation under the new covenant. The thief died BEFORE Jesus, therefore he was still under the old covenant. Accepting Christ is important, but it is HOW you accept him that ensures your salvation. Thank you for your kind words. Do you need any prayers?

 

[NickH]

This is where we are going to have to agree to disagree, because I believe that baptism is necessary for salvation under the new covenant. The thief died BEFORE Jesus, therefore he was still under the old covenant. Accepting Christ is important, but it is HOW you accept him that ensures your salvation. Thank you for your kind words. Do you need any prayers?

If he was under the old covenant then he died with unconfessed sin that was not atoned for by temple sacrifice. As such he died under the Law.

Also in Luke 22:20 Jesus said: "20In the same way, after the supper he took the cup, saying, "This cup is the new covenant in my blood, which is poured out for you. " it would seem then that the new covenant was in effect.

 

[startrekfan1]

If he was under the old covenant then he died with unconfessed sin that was not atoned for by temple sacrifice. As such he died under the Law.

Also in Luke 22:20 Jesus said: "20In the same way, after the supper he took the cup, saying, "This cup is the new covenant in my blood, which is poured out for you. " it would seem then that the new covenant was in effect.

The thief confessed his sin to Jesus Christ himself. Jesus knew that he and the man was about to die. I'm sure that if you admitted to Jesus himself that you were a sinner, he would forgive you.

I know what you are trying to do and I appreciate your opinion, but baptism is something that I know for sure, and if you think that I am going to change my mind on that you are mistaken. I'm sorry to be mean or something, but that is just how it is.

 

[NickH]

The thief confessed his sin to Jesus Christ himself. Jesus knew that he and the man was about to die. I'm sure that if you admitted to Jesus himself that you were a sinner, he would forgive you.

I know what you are trying to do and I appreciate your opinion, but baptism is something that I know for sure, and if you think that I am going to change my mind on that you are mistaken. I'm sorry to be mean or something, but that is just how it is.

Confession of sins was not enough under the old covenant. Belief in Jesus Christ is the salvation of the new covenant. So, either you believe the new covenant was in effect or it was not. So if we admit to Jesus Himself that we are sinners (and we do) and are forgiven, what changes between then and now? Nothing. God does not have relativistic rules like we humans do. He is the basis for our morality. The wellspring from which all truth and justice flow. His rules do not change on whims. His judgments are eternal and just. So, if God found it sufficient for the belief of a man in Him to be counter to him for salvation, why not anyone else?

Listen, I'm a Southern Baptist. We take baptism seriously. Baptism however is not a condition of salvation, and there is no scripture that supports it as such.

 

[startrekfan1]

Confession of sins was not enough under the old covenant. Belief in Jesus Christ is the salvation of the new covenant. So, either you believe the new covenant was in effect or it was not. So if we admit to Jesus Himself that we are sinners (and we do) and are forgiven, what changes between then and now? Nothing. God does not have relativistic rules like we humans do. He is the basis for our morality. The wellspring from which all truth and justice flow. His rules do not change on whims. His judgments are eternal and just. So, if God found it sufficient for the belief of a man in Him to be counter to him for salvation, why not anyone else?

Listen, I'm a Southern Baptist. We take baptism seriously. Baptism however is not a condition of salvation, and there is no scripture that supports it as such.

I see your point, but even THEN I still worry. I have OCD, or rather certain kinds of OCD. One of them is called Scrupulosity, which basically means that I constantly doubt my faith, makes me say and think blasphemous things all of the time, and makes me call into question of if I ever truly believed in Jesus Christ and makes me call into question the very foundation of my faith itself, and all of this occurs ON A DAILY BASIS! Some people don't ever encounter this in their entire lives.

You can see how that can get you a little depressed.
I'm sorry to rant, but it seems like with my condition, I am all alone in the world.

 

[Bro.T]

Baptism is not necessary for salvation. If it is, then Jesus is a liar and the thief on the cross went to Hell. Since we know that Jesus is not a liar, then we know the thief on the cross went to heaven. Baptism is an act of obedience and public declaration of faith, but is not an act of salvation. You cannot work your way to salvation. You cannot earn your way to salvation. You cannot pay your way to salvation. Only belief in the risen Jesus Christ will save you. And even then your salvation is a gift from God. God saves us, we cannot save our selves. Give up what you believe is your right to your self.

I commend you for working out your salvation but please, brother, let go of the thought that you can cross the T's and dot the I's to salvation. You cannot. Believe in Jesus Christ, risen Savior. Surrender to him. Doubt is natural because the gift is so incomprehensibly GREAT. As wretched as we ALL are, sinner and saint alike, how could we do anything to receive such a gift as salvation? We cannot. God saves, and we thank Him with wonder and fear and love and awe! It is amazing to think He loves us so much. I think sometimes that causes us to doubt because the gift is so great and we did nothing to earn it or receive it. Yet God has given us the gift of eternal life. Even now as I type this I am reminded again to be thankful... oh so thankful... what a wonderful gift it is.

Luke 23:39-43
Then one of the criminals who were hanged blasphemed Him, saying, “If You are the Christ, save Yourself and us.”
40 But the other, answering, rebuked him, saying, “Do you not even fear God, seeing you are under the same condemnation? 41 And we indeed justly, for we receive the due reward of our deeds; but this Man has done nothing wrong.” 42 Then he said to Jesus, “Lord, remember me when You come into Your kingdom.”
43 And Jesus said to him, “Assuredly, I say to you, today you will be with Me in Paradise.”

The thief was not baptized. The thief did not partake of the Lord's supper. He didn't repent. He didn't do good works. He died a wretched soul hanging on a cross. The only thing he did was believe.

John 20:30-31
30Jesus did many other miraculous signs in the presence of his disciples, which are not recorded in this book. 31But these are written that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and that by believing you may have life in his name.

"And he said unto them, go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned." (Mark 16:15-16). Listen people! Baptism is a commandment or requirement for salvation. To reject baptism is death; so, why will you die? Every soul that is baptized honors God and every soul that rejects baptism dishonors God. "And all the people that heard him, and the publicans, justified God, being baptized with the baptism of John. But the Pharisees and lawyers rejected the counsel of God against themselves, being not baptized of him." (Luke 7:29-30).

Rejecting God's counsel will get you eternal life in the burning flames (lake of fire) with the scribes and Pharisees. "For I say unto you, that except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, Ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven." (Matthew 5: 20). Anyone that is not baptized is a person with their sins yet upon them, because it is the baptism that washes away our past sins. "And now why tarriest thou? Arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord." (Acts 22:16):

Its more to understand about the situation with the thief on the cross,
Jesus aready gave us instruction to follow.

 

[Bro.T]

I fully understand what I am saying, and have given multiple verses in support of my claim that the verse in question (Romans 3:25) is being misinterpreted. Reprinting the verse without any additional exposition does not support yours. The assumption of willful ignorance is arrogant, and I take the "peace in jesus name" to be a sarcastic barb.

Thats great that you fully understand.

peace in jesus name

 

[NickH]

"And he said unto them, go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned." (Mark 16:15-16). Listen people! Baptism is a commandment or requirement for salvation. To reject baptism is death; so, why will you die? Every soul that is baptized honors God and every soul that rejects baptism dishonors God. "And all the people that heard him, and the publicans, justified God, being baptized with the baptism of John. But the Pharisees and lawyers rejected the counsel of God against themselves, being not baptized of him." (Luke 7:29-30).

Rejecting God's counsel will get you eternal life in the burning flames (lake of fire) with the scribes and Pharisees. "For I say unto you, that except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, Ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven." (Matthew 5: 20). Anyone that is not baptized is a person with their sins yet upon them, because it is the baptism that washes away our past sins. "And now why tarriest thou? Arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord." (Acts 22:16):

Its more to understand about the situation with the thief on the cross,
Jesus aready gave us instruction to follow.

Luke 7:29-30 - The Pharisee's rejected John's call for repentence.
Matthew 5:20 - Jesus illustrated that we cannot be justified by the law. Which is why he came to fulfill it. (v.17) To be perfect under the law, because no man could be perfect under it.
Acts 22:16 - Grammatically, calling on the name of the Lord is first, before baptism.

Any requirement beyond belief is no longer the grace of God, but a doctrine of works. You are saying that YOU control your salvation by choosing whether or not to be baptised. If baptism is necessary for salvation then what of the Old Testament saints? What of the thief on the cross? Baptism is identification with the death, burial, and resurrection of the Lord Jesus Christ. Baptism is an act of obedience and a public delcaration of faith. It is not what saves you. GOD saves you, not you. Your salvation comes before your baptism. Baptising an unbeliever would be a waste of time because the act of baptism itself is not an act of salvation.

1 Peter 1:17-20 "17If you address as Father the One who impartially judges according to each one's work, conduct yourselves in fear during the time of your stay on earth;

18knowing that you were not redeemed with perishable things like silver or gold from your futile way of life inherited from your forefathers, 19but with precious blood, as of a lamb unblemished and spotless, the blood of Christ.

That doesn't say the blood of Christ AND baptism.

Ephesians 2:8-9 8For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; 9not as a result of works, so that no one may boast.

Again no mention of baptism. Grace through faith. Not of works.

 

[startrekfan1]

Luke 7:29-30 - The Pharisee's rejected John's call for repentence.
Matthew 5:20 - Jesus illustrated that we cannot be justified by the law. Which is why he came to fulfill it. (v.17) To be perfect under the law, because no man could be perfect under it.
Acts 22:16 - Grammatically, calling on the name of the Lord is first, before baptism.

Any requirement beyond belief is no longer the grace of God, but a doctrine of works. You are saying that YOU control your salvation by choosing whether or not to be baptised. If baptism is necessary for salvation then what of the Old Testament saints? What of the thief on the cross? Baptism is identification with the death, burial, and resurrection of the Lord Jesus Christ. Baptism is an act of obedience and a public delcaration of faith. It is not what saves you. GOD saves you, not you. Your salvation comes before your baptism. Baptising an unbeliever would be a waste of time because the act of baptism itself is not an act of salvation.

1 Peter 1:17-20 "17If you address as Father the One who impartially judges according to each one's work, conduct yourselves in fear during the time of your stay on earth;

18knowing that you were not redeemed with perishable things like silver or gold from your futile way of life inherited from your forefathers, 19but with precious blood, as of a lamb unblemished and spotless, the blood of Christ.

That doesn't say the blood of Christ AND baptism.

Ephesians 2:8-9 8For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; 9not as a result of works, so that no one may boast.

Again no mention of baptism. Grace through faith. Not of works.

Like I said NickH, this is something we are going to have to agree to disagree on. I understand where you are coming from and I thank you for it. I guess my overall question is this: "Did I accept Jesus in the right way?" "Did I accept Jesus correctly?"
That kind of stuff. I'm sure you have had these kinds of doubts at some point or another. Are you in need of prayers?

 

[ben avraham]

Baptism is not necessary for salvation. If it is, then Jesus is a liar and the thief on the cross went to Hell. Since we know that Jesus is not a liar, then we know the thief on the cross went to heaven. Baptism is an act of obedience and public declaration of faith, but is not an act of salvation.

You cannot work your way to salvation. You cannot earn your way to salvation. You cannot pay your way to salvation. Only belief in the risen Jesus Christ will save you. And even then your salvation is a gift from God. God saves us, we cannot save our selves. Give up what you believe is your right to your self.

I commend you for working out your salvation but please, brother, let go of the thought that you can cross the T's and dot the I's to salvation. You cannot. Believe in Jesus Christ, risen Savior. Surrender to him. Doubt is natural because the gift is so incomprehensibly GREAT. As wretched as we ALL are, sinner and saint alike, how could we do anything to receive such a gift as salvation? We cannot. God saves, and we thank Him with wonder and fear and love and awe! It is amazing to think He loves us so much. I think sometimes that causes us to doubt because the gift is so great and we did nothing to earn it or receive it. Yet God has given us the gift of eternal life. Even now as I type this I am reminded again to be thankful... oh so thankful... what a wonderful gift it is.

Luke 23:39-43
Then one of the criminals who were hanged blasphemed Him, saying, “If You are the Christ, save Yourself and us.”
40 But the other, answering, rebuked him, saying, “Do you not even fear God, seeing you are under the same condemnation? 41 And we indeed justly, for we receive the due reward of our deeds; but this Man has done nothing wrong.” 42 Then he said to Jesus, “Lord, remember me when You come into Your kingdom.”
43 And Jesus said to him, “Assuredly, I say to you, today you will be with Me in Paradise.”

The thief was not baptized. The thief did not partake of the Lord's supper. He didn't repent. He didn't do good works. He died a wretched soul hanging on a cross. The only thing he did was believe.

John 20:30-31
30Jesus did many other miraculous signs in the presence of his disciples, which are not recorded in this book. 31But these are written that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and that by believing you may have life in his name.

Amen. You cannot obey your way to salvation either, because Jesus obeyed your way to salvation on your behalf. He represents us because He is the last Adam who perfectly obeyed God and all the law on our behalf, fulfilled the Law by dying for our sins in our place, rose again from the dead and now lives eternally as our advocate and mediator before God eternally.

I think it's because Jesus knew your anxiety 2,000 years before you were born that He said to you,

"Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest. Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls. For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light." (Mat 11:28-30).

Repentance means a change of heart and mind that leads to obedience - not obedience that leads to a change of heart and mind:

"I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing." (Joh 15:5).

The New Covenant in Christ's shed blood is a gift-certificate for salvation purchased by the blood of Jesus: When someone gives you a gift-certificate, you don't have to pay for the goods - you merely have to present the gift-certificate at the store, and the store-owner will provide you with the goods free of charge.

It's not that the goods were free, but that someone had been there for you beforehand and paid for the goods (salvation) on your behalf.

There's no inflation on the price, either - because the price was the highest price of all - the blood of God the Son shed on behalf of us, paying the penalty for ALL our sins, once for all.

ben

 

[ben avraham]

This is where we are going to have to agree to disagree, because I believe that baptism is necessary for salvation under the new covenant. The thief died BEFORE Jesus, therefore he was still under the old covenant. Accepting Christ is important, but it is HOW you accept him that ensures your salvation. Thank you for your kind words. Do you need any prayers?

No the thief did not die before Jesus, Startrekfan. If the Romans wanted to make those who they had crucified die quicker, they would strike their legs to break them, so preventing them from lifting themselves to breathe properly as they hung on the cross dying.

"The Jews therefore, because it was the preparation, that the bodies should not remain upon the cross on the sabbath day, (for that sabbath day was an high day,) besought Pilate that their legs might be broken, and that they might be taken away. Then came the soldiers, and brake the legs of the first, and of the other which was crucified with him. But when they came to Jesus, and saw that he was dead already, they brake not his legs: But one of the soldiers with a spear pierced his side, and forthwith came there out blood and water." (Joh 19:31-34).

Jesus was already dead, but the other two were not. They did not die BEFORE Jesus.

PS It's not the sacrifice of Jesus + our baptism that saves us, nor is it the sacrifice of Jesus + our obedience that saves us. It is the sacrifice and blood of Jesus alone that saves us. Jesus did not say,

"This is the New Covenant in My blood + your baptism"

We are saved by grace THROUGH faith, not by grace and by faith. It's not grace + faith, but grace through our faith (believing in) Jesus.

 

[stelow]

Phillipians 3:8-9
8Nothing is as wonderful as knowing Christ Jesus my Lord. I have given up everything else and count it all as garbage. All I want is Christ 9and to know that I belong to him. I could not make myself acceptable to God by obeying the Law of Moses. God accepted me simply because of my faith in Christ.​

(CEV)​

 

[oneofchrists]

Amen Stelow!!

 

[Bro.T]

Luke 7:29-30 - The Pharisee's rejected John's call for repentence.
Matthew 5:20 - Jesus illustrated that we cannot be justified by the law. Which is why he came to fulfill it. (v.17) To be perfect under the law, because no man could be perfect under it.
Acts 22:16 - Grammatically, calling on the name of the Lord is first, before baptism.

Any requirement beyond belief is no longer the grace of God, but a doctrine of works. You are saying that YOU control your salvation by choosing whether or not to be baptised. If baptism is necessary for salvation then what of the Old Testament saints? What of the thief on the cross? Baptism is identification with the death, burial, and resurrection of the Lord Jesus Christ. Baptism is an act of obedience and a public delcaration of faith. It is not what saves you. GOD saves you, not you. Your salvation comes before your baptism. Baptising an unbeliever would be a waste of time because the act of baptism itself is not an act of salvation.

1 Peter 1:17-20 "17If you address as Father the One who impartially judges according to each one's work, conduct yourselves in fear during the time of your stay on earth;

18knowing that you were not redeemed with perishable things like silver or gold from your futile way of life inherited from your forefathers, 19but with precious blood, as of a lamb unblemished and spotless, the blood of Christ.

That doesn't say the blood of Christ AND baptism.

Ephesians 2:8-9 8For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; 9not as a result of works, so that no one may boast.

Again no mention of baptism. Grace through faith. Not of works.

Without being baptize your sin are still on you according to the Bible.
Anyone that is not baptized is a person with their sins yet upon them, because it is the baptism that washes away our past sins. "And now why tarriest thou? Arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord." (Acts 22:16):

Jesus said in Mark 16:16 - He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned. This is after Jesus resurrection.

You can't use other verses or scrpitures to override Jesus, once you read something
that is concrete, then you should know that what ever else you read must mean something elses. At that point pray for some understanding. Overrall you have the choice to believe what you want. Always ways keep in mind, that the moment Jesus
step on the seen, the new testament started. So understand that jesus quoted prohesy a lot and went off the prophets. One must understand the old to understand the new testament.

 

[NatalieJan777]

"And he said unto them, go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned." (Mark 16:15-16).

"And all the people that heard him, and the publicans, justified God, being baptized with the baptism of John. But the Pharisees and lawyers rejected the counsel of God against themselves, being not baptized of him." (Luke 7:29-30).

"For I say unto you, that except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, Ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven." (Matthew 5: 20).

"And now why tarriest thou? Arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord." (Acts 22:16):

Hello Tanzel I hope this finds you well

I hope you don't mind that I've qouted what you've qouted and then removed your personal remarks so that we can look at the word of GOD alone by itself.

#1. Mark 16:15-16 - It is by our belief (faith) that we are saved. This belief will cause us to receive the Holy Spirit. This is the baptism referenced within this scripture. For it is only by unbelief that we are 'damned'.

#2. Luke 7:29-30 - This scripture takes place as Jesus is telling the crowd about John the baptist. John the baptist was the one who was to prepare the way of the Lord. Bring all to recognize their sinfulness and need for GOD. Those who believed John's ministering of the one to come (Jesus - the messiah) were baptized in water. The scribes and pharasee's rejected this baptism as uneccesary because they did not believe that Jesus was the Messiah.

#3. Matthew 5: 20 This scripture has nothing to do with baptism, and I believe that you know this.

#4. Acts 22:16 - This is where Ananias came to speak to Saul (AKA the apostle Paul) notice that he says "calling on the name of the Lord".

I know that you are biblically knowledgable. Can you look at Numbers 19 which speaks about the Water of Cleansing. It was a ritual of the priests to use this water to cleanse (sins) all that was unclean. I ask you, in light of our Lord Christ Jesus was it required for those baptised by John to be baptised by the "water of cleansing"? Knowing that John was not a priest (Levite). Could this possibly be why the scribes and pharasees rejected Johns baptism?

It is not my intent to argue, but only to present the other side of this argument. We are saved by faith (Belief that Christ Jesus is the one and only son of GOD), a faith that will lead to works by the endwelling Holy Spirit in all believers, given to them by their faith in Christ Jesus.

 

[Bro.T]

Hello Tanzel I hope this finds you well

I hope you don't mind that I've qouted what you've qouted and then removed your personal remarks so that we can look at the word of GOD alone by itself.

#1. Mark 16:15-16 - It is by our belief (faith) that we are saved. This belief will cause us to receive the Holy Spirit. This is the baptism referenced within this scripture. For it is only by unbelief that we are 'damned'.

#2. Luke 7:29-30 - This scripture takes place as Jesus is telling the crowd about John the baptist. John the baptist was the one who was to prepare the way of the Lord. Bring all to recognize their sinfulness and need for GOD. Those who believed John's ministering of the one to come (Jesus - the messiah) were baptized in water. The scribes and pharasee's rejected this baptism as uneccesary because they did not believe that Jesus was the Messiah.

#3. Matthew 5: 20 This scripture has nothing to do with baptism, and I believe that you know this.

#4. Acts 22:16 - This is where Ananias came to speak to Saul (AKA the apostle Paul) notice that he says "calling on the name of the Lord".

I know that you are biblically knowledgable. Can you look at Numbers 19 which speaks about the Water of Cleansing. It was a ritual of the priests to use this water to cleanse (sins) all that was unclean. I ask you, in light of our Lord Christ Jesus was it required for those baptised by John to be baptised by the "water of cleansing"? Knowing that John was not a priest (Levite). Could this possibly be why the scribes and pharasees rejected Johns baptism?

It is not my intent to argue, but only to present the other side of this argument. We are saved by faith (Belief that Christ Jesus is the one and only son of GOD), a faith that will lead to works by the endwelling Holy Spirit in all believers, given to them by their faith in Christ Jesus.

Theres no arguement here, because I'm comfortable with people believing what they want. after I post what Jesus said in Mark 16:16 - He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned. This is after Jesus resurrection. Theres nothing to debate about.

#1. Mark 16:15-16 - It is by our belief (faith) that we are saved. This belief will cause us to receive the Holy Spirit. This is the baptism referenced within this scripture. For it is only by unbelief that we are 'damned'.

Lets talk about belief (faith) Jesus said in luke 4:4 And Jesus answered him, saying, It is written, That man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word of God. Jesus quoted moses, at this time there was no new testament. The first baptism was in Exodus...See..1corinthians 10:1 Moreover, brethren, I would not that ye should be ignorant, how that all our fathers were under the cloud, and all passed through the sea; 10:2 And were all baptized unto Moses in the cloud and in the sea; 10:3 And did all eat the same spiritual meat; 10:4 And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ. And we see Jesus was
that rock, back then with moses baptizing israel.

Peter said in Acts 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost. So how a person expect to receive the Holy Ghost without repenting first, and then getting baptize in the name of jesus as peter said. Remember peter got the keys to the kingdom.

Jesus said in (Matt. 16:24-27) (v.24) Then said Jesus unto his disciples, if any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me. [FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman][FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman]That was the Lord’s burden, to die on the cross for the sins of man. Now as we read earlier every man must bear his own burden, and what is your burden? [/FONT][/FONT](v.25) For whosoever will save his life shall lose it: and whosoever will lose his life for my sake shall find it. [FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman][FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman]You must give up your life in this world; you must not get caught up in the cares of this world. You must bring forth-good fruits of faith by keeping God’s commandments, statues, and judgments. [/FONT][/FONT](v.26) For what is a man profited, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul? Or what shall a man give in exchange for his soul? [FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman][FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman]Some of the great patriarchs in [/FONT][/FONT](Heb.11) [FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman][FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman]gave up a lot, some even their lives in exchange for their soul. You see they had great faith (belief) that their souls (bodies) would be raised at the first resurrection. And some of you won’t even give up some of the littlest things like, going to church on Sunday, the pagan holidays of Christmas and Easter, praying to the Virgin Mary, and I could go on and on. And most so-called Christians know these rituals have nothing to do with Jesus and the bible. But do they understand that they are offensive to God? Maybe it’s because you have more faith in man than God, maybe it’s because you fear how man is going to treat you, and you don’t fear God.
[/FONT][/FONT]

 

[Miss Elly]

The thief confessed his sin to Jesus Christ himself. Jesus knew that he and the man was about to die. I'm sure that if you admitted to Jesus himself that you were a sinner, he would forgive you.

I know what you are trying to do and I appreciate your opinion, but baptism is something that I know for sure, and if you think that I am going to change my mind on that you are mistaken. I'm sorry to be mean or something, but that is just how it is.

Am praying for you dear brother, if you feel incomplete without being baptized by water, then by all means do so. I will put this gently, I sense you are fearful and need reassurance from God that you are actually saved. So I am going to pray that Jesus will give you peace and that assurance. Seek him like a father, and read his word. A person who is fearful (the enemy of our souls likes to torment with fear and doubt) is not made perfect in God's love. Lord, I pray Startrekfan will your pure love and that your doubts and fears will be erased. God bless.

 

[startrekfan1]

Am praying for you dear brother, if you feel incomplete without being baptized by water, then by all means do so. I will put this gently, I sense you are fearful and need reassurance from God that you are actually saved. So I am going to pray that Jesus will give you peace and that assurance. Seek him like a father, and read his word. A person who is fearful (the enemy of our souls likes to torment with fear and doubt) is not made perfect in God's love. Lord, I pray Startrekfan will your pure love and that your doubts and fears will be erased. God bless.

Thank you for your kind words.

I have received baptism by water, but my main worry is that I DID NOT DO IT CORRECTLY.

That is my general fear to my OCD.

 

[NatalieJan777]

The first baptism was in Exodus...See..1corinthians 10:1 Moreover, brethren, I would not that ye should be ignorant, how that all our fathers were under the cloud, and all passed through the sea; 10:2 And were all baptized unto Moses in the cloud and in the sea; 10:3 And did all eat the same spiritual meat; 10:4 And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ. And we see Jesus was[/COLOR]
that rock, back then with moses baptizing israel.



Peter said in Acts 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost. So how a person expect to receive the Holy Ghost without repenting first, and then getting baptize in the name of jesus as peter said.

This baptism in old testament times was a spiritual baptism, there was no water.

Jesus says in John 14:15-16 "If you love me you will obey what I command. And I will ask the Father, and he will give you another Counselor to be with you forever"

This other counselor is the Holy Spirit, Jesus says nothing of water baptism here.

1 John 5:1-5 Everyone that believes that Jesus is the Christ is born of God, and everyone who loves the father loves his child as well. This is how we know that we love the children of God, by loving God and carrying out his commands. And his commands are not burdensome, for everyone born of GOD overcomes the world. This is the victory that has overcome the world, even our faith. Who is it that overcomes the world? Only he who believes that Jesus is the son of God.

The holy spirit bears the fruit through our submission by faith, we can do nothing on our own without Christ Jesus and the Holy Spirit that by faith in HIM brings to all believers.

The Holy Spirit is not born of water, but is born of faith.

 

[Bro.T]

This baptism in old testament times was a spiritual baptism, there was no water.

Jesus says in John 14:15-16 "If you love me you will obey what I command. And I will ask the Father, and he will give you another Counselor to be with you forever"

This other counselor is the Holy Spirit, Jesus says nothing of water baptism here.

1 John 5:1-5 Everyone that believes that Jesus is the Christ is born of God, and everyone who loves the father loves his child as well. This is how we know that we love the children of God, by loving God and carrying out his commands. And his commands are not burdensome, for everyone born of GOD overcomes the world. This is the victory that has overcome the world, even our faith. Who is it that overcomes the world? Only he who believes that Jesus is the son of God.

The holy spirit bears the fruit through our submission by faith, we can do nothing on our own without Christ Jesus and the Holy Spirit that by faith in HIM brings to all believers.

The Holy Spirit is not born of water, but is born of faith.

Like I stated before, you have the choice to believe what you want.