The Meaning Of Repentance

[startrekfan1]

Hello again yall,

I have yet another OCD questions so just bear with me...

Lately, I have been wondering about repentance.

The bible says that we must repent BEFORE, let me emphasize this clearly, BEFORE baptism for god to forgive us.

Now some people say that repentance is "a change of mind" and going to God for forgiveness.

The thing is, I can't be sure if I had this change of mind before my baptism or not. My mind has been racked with so much self-doubt from my OCD that I can't even tell anymore what my feelings were at baptism...

Can anyone help me out? Am I saved or doomed?

 

[startrekfan1]

Anyone got any opinions?

 

[bsd31]

*** Then Jesus declared, "I am the bread of life. He who comes to me will never go hungry, and he who believes in me will never be thirsty. But as I told you, you have seen me and still you do not believe. All that the Father gives me will come to me, and whoever comes to me I will never drive away. For I have come down from heaven not to do my will but to do the will of him who sent me. And this is the will of him who sent me, that I shall lose none of all that he has given me, but raise them up at the last day. For my Father's will is that everyone who looks to the Son and believes in him shall have eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day."*** - John 6:35-40

I'm assuming that you aren't the exception to that declaration by the Lord and since you've been given by the Father to the Son and the Son says He will never drive you away and that you will have eternal life the answer seems pretty cut and dry to me.

Nowhere in there does it mention anything about baptism. It says clearly if you look to the Son and believe in Him you shall have eternal life. It doesn't say to prove yourself by undergoing a baptism, it doesn't say anything about repentance either.

It's a real shame that people want to attach conditions to salvation. Like what order you repent and are baptized in. It's meaningless. What matters is that you repent (make God and His kingdom the very purpose and center of your life, turning away from your old ways) and believe.

 

[startrekfan1]

*** Then Jesus declared, "I am the bread of life. He who comes to me will never go hungry, and he who believes in me will never be thirsty. But as I told you, you have seen me and still you do not believe. All that the Father gives me will come to me, and whoever comes to me I will never drive away. For I have come down from heaven not to do my will but to do the will of him who sent me. And this is the will of him who sent me, that I shall lose none of all that he has given me, but raise them up at the last day. For my Father's will is that everyone who looks to the Son and believes in him shall have eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day."*** - John 6:35-40

I'm assuming that you aren't the exception to that declaration by the Lord and since you've been given by the Father to the Son and the Son says He will never drive you away and that you will have eternal life the answer seems pretty cut and dry to me.

Nowhere in there does it mention anything about baptism. It says clearly if you look to the Son and believe in Him you shall have eternal life. It doesn't say to prove yourself by undergoing a baptism, it doesn't say anything about repentance either.

It's a real shame that people want to attach conditions to salvation. Like what order you repent and are baptized in. It's meaningless. What matters is that you repent (make God and His kingdom the very purpose and center of your life, turning away from your old ways) and believe.

Well, My church believes that baptism is the only means to be connected to the atoning blood of Christ, and through that we are born again. I am just terrified that I have done this rite incorrectly and when I stand before God, I will be doomed because of some hidden error in my salvation process. Do you see where I am coming from?

 

[Chrisv]

Hi Startrekfan,

Let me try and help you, but first I have a question.
Tell me, why did you decide to become a Christian?

 

[startrekfan1]

Hi Startrekfan,

Let me try and help you, but first I have a question.
Tell me, why did you decide to become a Christian?

Well, my grandmother wanted me to be baptized when I was little, but wanted me to learn more beforehand. So did my parents, but ultimately they left that decision in my hands.

Then my parents found the local branch of the church in my current hometown and my family all started going more frequently.

As time went on, it was just me that attended the church in frequency.

I believe I sent an email regarding baptism and how to get more information.

One day, the assistant preacher and either an elder or a deacon, I can't really remember, stopped by my house one day. They received my email and were very interested in me. The assistant preacher then asked me to stop by the church sometime and sit down with him and learn a thing or two. After one or two lessons, he led me to be baptized.

It sounds simple enough, but trust me, I have massive self-doubt.

Some of the questions that have popped into my mind are:

Were you sincere at baptism?
Were you thinking the right thoughts at baptism?
Did you believe in Jesus in the right context?
Did you believe in the Bible as a factual document?

That kind of stuff. And these questions will not stop.

Think like going to incredibly depressed to calm to anxious to depressed over and over again in the same day and have to go through it all again.

I just don't know what to think anymore....

 

[SoundCard]

Well, my grandmother wanted me to be baptized when I was little, but wanted me to learn more beforehand. So did my parents, but ultimately they left that decision in my hands.

Then my parents found the local branch of the church in my current hometown and my family all started going more frequently.

As time went on, it was just me that attended the church in frequency.

I believe I sent an email regarding baptism and how to get more information.

One day, the assistant preacher and either an elder or a deacon, I can't really remember, stopped by my house one day. They received my email and were very interested in me. The assistant preacher then asked me to stop by the church sometime and sit down with him and learn a thing or two. After one or two lessons, he led me to be baptized.

It sounds simple enough, but trust me, I have massive self-doubt.

Some of the questions that have popped into my mind are:

Were you sincere at baptism?
Were you thinking the right thoughts at baptism?
Did you believe in Jesus in the right context?
Did you believe in the Bible as a factual document?

That kind of stuff. And these questions will not stop.

Think like going to incredibly depressed to calm to anxious to depressed over and over again in the same day and have to go through it all again.

I just don't know what to think anymore....

We're baptised into God's family by the Holy Spirit. If you have the Spirit, you have the Son, and you have the Father, and are saved. So, the question is, do you have the Spirit? If yes, then calm down, take a deep breath, and rejoice, for yours is the Kingdom of Heaven.
The fact you worry so much about it though and struggle with it, leads me to think you've been granted a higher awareness of your own sins, and that's something that only comes from God. Those who aren't saved don't worry about their sins, because most of them don't think they are sinning.

 

[startrekfan1]

We're baptised into God's family by the Holy Spirit. If you have the Spirit, you have the Son, and you have the Father, and are saved. So, the question is, do you have the Spirit? If yes, then calm down, take a deep breath, and rejoice, for yours is the Kingdom of Heaven.
The fact you worry so much about it though and struggle with it, leads me to think you've been granted a higher awareness of your own sins, and that's something that only comes from God. Those who aren't saved don't worry about their sins, because most of them don't think they are sinning.

I see what you mean. I just worry that I haven't done something exactly right is all. What does the spirit feel like? Do you know?

 

[Chrisv]

Let me say this first off. Every Christian reach a point in their lives where they doubt their salvation. It is normal.

Now, if you reached a point in your life where you decided to follow God and you prayed and asked Him to forgive you and that you want to be His child. If you decided in your heart that you believe in Jesus and everything the Bible says about Him..........then you are saved!

I cannot for the life of me imagine that God (who sacrificed Himself so we can be saved) will condemn a man who decided to follow Him but died before he could be baptised.

Look for reasons to believe in your salvation. do not look for reasons to doubt it.

God looks at what is the true intention in your heart! If you still doubt about your sincerity at the time of your baptism, go and be baptised again. I believe you are sincere now. Remove the doubt in your life. To sit and worry about it will only cause you grief.

Understand that you will never be good enough! God understands that and He accommodates it. That is why what goes on in your heart is so important. If you did not have the perfect thought process at the time of your baptism, I think that your heart is true now(this cry for help from you proves it!). The fact that it is such a big issue for you now means that you have the desire to have the correct thought process. God sees that and that is what counts for Him.

Satan wants nothing more that for you to doubt your faith because then you are vulnerable to his attacks.

This is where faith comes in. If you decided to follow Jesus and you where baptized and you are serious about it (again the fact that you are so conflicted indicates that you are serious about this), then you are saved. Decide to believe that no matter what! Stick with this decision you made!

God has given you a questioning mind for a reason. He wants you to question the things around you and to find the truth for yourself. Just like a 4X4 vehicle that is driving on a difficult and dangerous track, the driver is constantly observing the road ahead to find obstacles and the best ways around them. Do not always blindly accept everything you are told, but question it and investigate it to find the truth for yourself. Do not be scared to ask the hard questions and if you do not like the answer, keep on looking. If you cannot find the answer in your own church or fellowship, look further afield. I think that you have an investigative mind, and for good reason.

There is a lot of things and teachings in the Body of Christ today that is from men and not from God and God is busy raising up people that will investigate and separate truth from fiction. I think that you are one of those people. Initially it is hard because your questioning mind is causing you to doubt, that is why I urge you to make your decision and stick with it!

 

[startrekfan1]

Let me say this first off. Every Christian reach a point in their lives where they doubt their salvation. It is normal.

Now, if you reached a point in your life where you decided to follow God and you prayed and asked Him to forgive you and that you want to be His child. If you decided in your heart that you believe in Jesus and everything the Bible says about Him..........then you are saved!

I cannot for the life of me imagine that God (who sacrificed Himself so we can be saved) will condemn a man who decided to follow Him but died before he could be baptised.

Look for reasons to believe in your salvation. do not look for reasons to doubt it.

God looks at what is the true intention in your heart! If you still doubt about your sincerity at the time of your baptism, go and be baptised again. I believe you are sincere now. Remove the doubt in your life. To sit and worry about it will only cause you grief.

Understand that you will never be good enough! God understands that and He accommodates it. That is why what goes on in your heart is so important. If you did not have the perfect thought process at the time of your baptism, I think that your heart is true now(this cry for help from you proves it!). The fact that it is such a big issue for you now means that you have the desire to have the correct thought process. God sees that and that is what counts for Him.

Satan wants nothing more that for you to doubt your faith because then you are vulnerable to his attacks.

This is where faith comes in. If you decided to follow Jesus and you where baptized and you are serious about it (again the fact that you are so conflicted indicates that you are serious about this), then you are saved. Decide to believe that no matter what! Stick with this decision you made!

God has given you a questioning mind for a reason. He wants you to question the things around you and to find the truth for yourself. Just like a 4X4 vehicle that is driving on a difficult and dangerous track, the driver is constantly observing the road ahead to find obstacles and the best ways around them. Do not always blindly accept everything you are told, but question it and investigate it to find the truth for yourself. Do not be scared to ask the hard questions and if you do not like the answer, keep on looking. If you cannot find the answer in your own church or fellowship, look further afield. I think that you have an investigative mind, and for good reason.

There is a lot of things and teachings in the Body of Christ today that is from men and not from God and God is busy raising up people that will investigate and separate truth from fiction. I think that you are one of those people. Initially it is hard because your questioning mind is causing you to doubt, that is why I urge you to make your decision and stick with it!

Thanks for your kind words. I still have worries, but now I am trying to understand the meaning behind all things.

I wasn't forced to be baptized, it was my own decision. I learned the lessons of sin and how it seperates us from god. I learned that ONLY through Jesus Christ's atoaning blood we are saved. I just don't want to be caught with my pants down in front of God. Don't get me wrong, Baptism is still necessary for salvation, but I think that God makes everything turn out in the end.

Thank you for your kind words and may God bless you and your family. Are you in need of any prayers or anything?

 

[stelow]

*** Then Jesus declared, "I am the bread of life. He who comes to me will never go hungry, and he who believes in me will never be thirsty. But as I told you, you have seen me and still you do not believe. All that the Father gives me will come to me, and whoever comes to me I will never drive away. For I have come down from heaven not to do my will but to do the will of him who sent me. And this is the will of him who sent me, that I shall lose none of all that he has given me, but raise them up at the last day. For my Father's will is that everyone who looks to the Son and believes in him shall have eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day."*** - John 6:35-40

I'm assuming that you aren't the exception to that declaration by the Lord and since you've been given by the Father to the Son and the Son says He will never drive you away and that you will have eternal life the answer seems pretty cut and dry to me.

Nowhere in there does it mention anything about baptism. It says clearly if you look to the Son and believe in Him you shall have eternal life. It doesn't say to prove yourself by undergoing a baptism, it doesn't say anything about repentance either.

It's a real shame that people want to attach conditions to salvation. Like what order you repent and are baptized in. It's meaningless. What matters is that you repent (make God and His kingdom the very purpose and center of your life, turning away from your old ways) and believe.

Exactly, I've heard the following verse quoted from the Bible by the preacher, and immediately after add to it works, in their own words. I've tried to tell startrekfan this over and over, but he has been indoctrinated into a works based salvation.

Ephesians 2:8-10
8For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God— 9not by works, so that no one can boast. 10For we are God's workmanship, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do.

 

[Bro.T]

Hello again yall,

I have yet another OCD questions so just bear with me...

Lately, I have been wondering about repentance.

The bible says that we must repent BEFORE, let me emphasize this clearly, BEFORE baptism for god to forgive us.

Now some people say that repentance is "a change of mind" and going to God for forgiveness.

The thing is, I can't be sure if I had this change of mind before my baptism or not. My mind has been racked with so much self-doubt from my OCD that I can't even tell anymore what my feelings were at baptism...

Can anyone help me out? Am I saved or doomed?

So the bible tells you to repent and be baptized in the name of Jesus. And by doing so you come up under his precious blood and then you are saved from your sins that are past, not present or future sins but for sins that are past. Paul explain this in Romans 3:23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God; 3:24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus: 3:25 Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God; We were all locked under death by Adam’s sin, even the second death. But when Jesus became (he was God in the beginning) man and died for the sins of the world, he gave us access back to the tree of life (himself) which Adam had caused us to lose. That’s what grace is, our free gift our access back to the tree of life but that’s another lesson for another time. So by coming under the blood of Jesus you are saved from your past sins. And if you are saved now, it is on a day to day basis. Because all have sinned, and if you continue to live you will sin again. It is the willful sinning that you need to put in check.

 

[chrisnu]

So the bible tells you to repent and be baptized in the name of Jesus. And by doing so you come up under his precious blood and then you are saved from your sins that are past, not present or future sins but for sins that are past.

I disagree. When we are saved, we are saved from the effects all sin. Forgiveness is not dependent upon our confession. 1 Corinthians 6:11: "But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God." Were meaning that the work has already been accomplished by Christ. 1 John 2:12: "I write to you, dear children, because your sins have been forgiven on account of his name." Our sins are not being forgiven, or will be forgiven in the future, they have already been forgiven. As Christians, sin doesn't hinder our relationship with God, it hinders our fellowship with God. (Luke 6:46) Confession restores our fellowship with God.

 

[RobertZ]

So the bible tells you to repent and be baptized in the name of Jesus. And by doing so you come up under his precious blood and then you are saved from your sins that are past, not present or future sins but for sins that are past. Paul explain this in Romans 3:23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God; 3:24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus: 3:25 Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God; We were all locked under death by Adam’s sin, even the second death. But when Jesus became (he was God in the beginning) man and died for the sins of the world, he gave us access back to the tree of life (himself) which Adam had caused us to lose. That’s what grace is, our free gift our access back to the tree of life but that’s another lesson for another time. So by coming under the blood of Jesus you are saved from your past sins. And if you are saved now, it is on a day to day basis. Because all have sinned, and if you continue to live you will sin again. It is the willful sinning that you need to put in check.

In Him you also trusted, after you heard the word of truth, the gospelhttp://www.bible-knowledge.com/Sealed-with-the-Holy-Spirit.html# of your salvation; in whom also, having believed, you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise, who is the guarantee of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, to the praise of His glory." (Ephesians 1:13)

 

[Bro.T]

I disagree. When we are saved, we are saved from the effects all sin. Forgiveness is not dependent upon our confession. 1 Corinthians 6:11: "But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God." Were meaning that the work has already been accomplished by Christ. 1 John 2:12: "I write to you, dear children, because your sins have been forgiven on account of his name." Our sins are not being forgiven, or will be forgiven in the future, they have already been forgiven. As Christians, sin doesn't hinder our relationship with God, it hinders our fellowship with God. (Luke 6:46) Confession restores our fellowship with God.

I understand how you thinking , but Paul explain this in Romans 3:23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God; 3:24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus: 3:25 Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;

 

[Bro.T]

In Him you also trusted, after you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation; in whom also, having believed, you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise, who is the guarantee of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, to the praise of His glory." (Ephesians 1:13)

I agree...but theirs a process that people don't seems to understand.

 

[chrisnu]

I understand how you thinking , but Paul explain this in Romans 3:23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God; 3:24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus: 3:25 Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;

I don't believe this verse is meant to be interpreted that way, and I have already used several other verses (including some written by Paul) which refute this claim. Taken in the context of the passage, in which Paul explains that there is no distinction any more between Jew and Gentile, "sins that are past" is referring to the sins which had been committed and covered, but not forgiven under the old covenant. Christ's sacrifice on the Cross forgave all those sins as well.

 

[Bro.T]

I don't believe this verse is meant to be interpreted that way, and I have already used several other verses (including some written by Paul) which refute this claim. Taken in the context of the passage, in which Paul explains that there is no distinction any more between Jew and Gentile, "sins that are past" is referring to the sins which had been committed and covered, but not forgiven under the old covenant. Christ's sacrifice on the Cross forgave all those sins as well.

I could be more helpful to you if you just didn't understand, but since you don't believe that verse means what it says, then its probably best to
leave this situation alone.

peace in jesus name

 

[NickH]

Thanks for your kind words. I still have worries, but now I am trying to understand the meaning behind all things.

I wasn't forced to be baptized, it was my own decision. I learned the lessons of sin and how it seperates us from god. I learned that ONLY through Jesus Christ's atoaning blood we are saved. I just don't want to be caught with my pants down in front of God. Don't get me wrong, Baptism is still necessary for salvation, but I think that God makes everything turn out in the end.

Thank you for your kind words and may God bless you and your family. Are you in need of any prayers or anything?

Baptism is not necessary for salvation. If it is, then Jesus is a liar and the thief on the cross went to Hell. Since we know that Jesus is not a liar, then we know the thief on the cross went to heaven. Baptism is an act of obedience and public declaration of faith, but is not an act of salvation. You cannot work your way to salvation. You cannot earn your way to salvation. You cannot pay your way to salvation. Only belief in the risen Jesus Christ will save you. And even then your salvation is a gift from God. God saves us, we cannot save our selves. Give up what you believe is your right to your self.

I commend you for working out your salvation but please, brother, let go of the thought that you can cross the T's and dot the I's to salvation. You cannot. Believe in Jesus Christ, risen Savior. Surrender to him. Doubt is natural because the gift is so incomprehensibly GREAT. As wretched as we ALL are, sinner and saint alike, how could we do anything to receive such a gift as salvation? We cannot. God saves, and we thank Him with wonder and fear and love and awe! It is amazing to think He loves us so much. I think sometimes that causes us to doubt because the gift is so great and we did nothing to earn it or receive it. Yet God has given us the gift of eternal life. Even now as I type this I am reminded again to be thankful... oh so thankful... what a wonderful gift it is.

Luke 23:39-43
Then one of the criminals who were hanged blasphemed Him, saying, “If You are the Christ, save Yourself and us.”
40 But the other, answering, rebuked him, saying, “Do you not even fear God, seeing you are under the same condemnation? 41 And we indeed justly, for we receive the due reward of our deeds; but this Man has done nothing wrong.” 42 Then he said to Jesus, “Lord, remember me when You come into Your kingdom.”
43 And Jesus said to him, “Assuredly, I say to you, today you will be with Me in Paradise.”

The thief was not baptized. The thief did not partake of the Lord's supper. He didn't repent. He didn't do good works. He died a wretched soul hanging on a cross. The only thing he did was believe.

John 20:30-31
30Jesus did many other miraculous signs in the presence of his disciples, which are not recorded in this book. 31But these are written that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and that by believing you may have life in his name.

 

[chrisnu]

I could be more helpful to you if you just didn't understand, but since you don't believe that verse means what it says, then its probably best to
leave this situation alone.

peace in jesus name

I fully understand what I am saying, and have given multiple verses in support of my claim that the verse in question (Romans 3:25) is being misinterpreted. Reprinting the verse without any additional exposition does not support yours. The assumption of willful ignorance is arrogant, and I take the "peace in jesus name" to be a sarcastic barb.