The law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus, has set us free from the law of sin and death?

[HIM]

Paul said in Romans 8, "The law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has set us free from the law of sin and death."

The law above in the clause, law of sin is not the law or a law found in the Book of the Law or of the decalogue. Most people don't understand these text so you are not alone. Please follow along.
Paul says that he does what he doesn't want to do because sin dwells in him in Rom 7:20. After saying this he says in context to it in verse 21, "I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me."

In other words not being able to control himself (ourselves) because of the indwelling sin is the law he found. This is brought out even further by the next two verses.

Paul says that he delights in the Law of God in relation to the good that he wants to do. But then he says he sees ANOTHER law in his members. This OTHER law that he says he found, the law that when he would do good evil is present with him. It is through this law he does what he would not, because of the sin that dwells in him. He as we can't help ourselves.

O wretched man that I am who shall deliver me (us) from this body of death that has sin dwelling in it?

Then because of the good that Paul wants to do He thanks God through Jesus Christ that he serves the Law of God with His mind. But there is a contrast in his flesh that he can not do what he would. He is in captivity, serving the law of sin in and with his flesh.

However there is therefore NOW no condemnation to us who are in Christ Jesus he continues in chapter 8. We who walk after the Spirit, His Spirit and not after the flesh, the sin that dwells in it. For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has made us free from the law of sin, the law that he found and is, the law that when we would do good evil is present with us. The law that we do what we would not, because of the sin that dwells in us and the result of it is death. For the wages of sin is death. (Rom 6:23) For what the law, the law of God that we serve with our minds could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh that had sin dwelling in it, God sent his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:That the righteousness of the law of God might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit of Christ Jesus whom we are in. And He in us that the world might believe.

And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.

Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death? Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life. So say not in your heart, who shall bring Christ, through which we recieve the Word, His commandments and statutes contained in the Book of the Law in the heart down from above or up from the deep. But the righteousness of faith speaks this. The Word is in your heart and in your mouth that you can do it. That the righteousness of the Law, the Law of God be fulfilled in us who walk after the Spirit of Christ and not after the flesh, the sin that dwells in us. This is the word of faith in which we preach.



Rom 7:20 Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.
Rom 7:21 I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me.
Rom 7:22 For I delight in the law of God after the inward man:
Rom 7:23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.
Rom 7:24 O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?
Rom 7:25 I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.

Rom 8:1 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
Rom 8:2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.
Rom 8:3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:
Rom 8:4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

Rom 8:10 And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.
Rom 8:11 But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.

Rom 6:1 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?
Rom 6:2 God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?
Rom 6:3 Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?
Rom 6:4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
Rom 6:5 For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:
Rom 10:6 But the righteousness which is of faith speaketh on this wise, Say not in thine heart, Who shall ascend into heaven? (that is, to bring Christ down from above)
Rom 10:7 Or, Who shall descend into the deep? (that is, to bring up Christ again from the dead.)
Rom 10:8 But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach;

Deut 30:10 If thou shalt hearken unto the voice of the LORD thy God, to keep his commandments and his statutes which are written in this book of the law, and if thou turn unto the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul.
Deut 30:11 For this commandment which I command thee this day, it is not hidden from thee, neither is it far off.
Deut 30:12 It is not in heaven, that thou shouldest say, Who shall go up for us to heaven, and bring it unto us, that we may hear it, and do it?
Deut 30:13 Neither is it beyond the sea, that thou shouldest say, Who shall go over the sea for us, and bring it unto us, that we may hear it, and do it?
Deut 30:14 But the word is very nigh unto thee, in thy mouth, and in thy heart, that thou mayest do it.

 

[Studyman]

Paul said in Romans 8 when he said, "The law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has set us free from the law of sin and death." A little leaven leavens the whole.

The law in the above phrase is not the law or a law found in the Book of the Law or of the decalogue. Most people don't understand these text so you are not alone. Please follow along.
Paul says that he does what he doesn't want to do because sin dwells in him in Rom 7:20. After saying this he says in context to it in verse 21, "I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me."

In other words not being able to control himself (ourselves) because of the indwelling sin is the law he found. This is brought out even further by the next two verses.

Paul says that he delights in the Law of God in relation to the good that he wants to do. But then he says he sees ANOTHER law in his members. This OTHER law that he says he found, the law that when he would do good evil is present with him. It is through this law he does what he would not, because of the sin that dwells in him. He as we can't help ourselves.

O wretched man that I am who shall deliver me (us) from this body of death that has sin dwelling in it?

Then because of the good that Paul wants to do He thanks God through Jesus Christ that he serves the Law of God with His mind. But there is a contrast in his flesh that he can not do what he would. He is in captivity, serving the law of sin in and with his flesh.

Great topic Him. I would point out some things regarding Paul's teaching. Before Romans 7, that have provided a little different understanding of Paul's words in Rom. 7. I would like to share them with you. Paul says;

9 Knowing that Christ being raised from the dead dieth no more; death hath no more dominion over him.

10 For in that he died, he died unto sin once: "but in that he liveth", he liveth unto God.

11 Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, "but alive unto God" through Jesus Christ our Lord.

12 Let not sin therefore "reign" in your "mortal body", (Flesh) that ye should obey it in the lusts thereof.

13 Neither yield ye your members as instruments of unrighteousness unto sin: but "yield yourselves" (not just our mind, but our mortal body as well) unto God, as those that are alive from the dead, and your members (Ears, Eyes, Hands and feet) as instruments of righteousness unto God. 14 For sin "shall not have dominion over you": for ye are not under the law, but under grace.

So isn't Paul saying here to "rule over our flesh", just as God instructed Cain in the beginning? To not let the Flesh rule over our mind?

In like manner, in Roman's 7, 25 I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin. The Law of Sin is Death, Yes? Paul doesn't say here that his flesh serves sin. It serves the Law of Sin, which is death. That's like saying the mind serves God in "don't commit adultery" but the flesh walks over to the neighbor's wife and has its way with her. I don't think that is Paul's teaching here. The Flesh is crucified according to the Law of Sin.

Therefore, Paul's Flesh is dead and no longer controls his mortal body, "to obey it in the lusts thereof". As he says in another place, "Him that steals. let him steal no more". The Flesh no longer directs Paul's Footsteps. His Sinful flesh becomes crucified with Christ, now Paul "Lives unto God" even as the Christ, as the New Man, which after God, not after his flesh as with the old man, is created in righteousness and true Holiness.

With God's Word, AKA "Spirit" in our mind, we serve the Law of God, no longer yielding our members as instruments unto unrighteousness, like stealing, Etc.

With this Yielding oneself a servant to obey God, as one who is alive from the dead, we don't steal. It's not that we think about not stealing, but our flesh steals anyway. Through the Spirit of the Living Christ, our body, flesh, being, doesn't steal. And as long as we "WALK", "In the Spirit" (In God's Word and not our own), we will not Steal.

There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk (Do things not just think things) not after the flesh, (Stealing) but after the Spirit. (Not Stealing) "For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace."

Paul confirms this before Romans 7 & 8.

15 What then? shall we sin, (Steal) because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid.

Of course, a man shouldn't steal just because God has forgiven his sin. He goes on to explain.

16 Know ye not, that to whom "ye yield yourselves" servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?

So again, Paul is showing us who to yield ourselves servants to obey.

I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; (Yielded myself a servant to obey God) but with the flesh the "law" of sin. (The Law of Sin, is Death) As Paul has already established.

1 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound? 2 God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?

A fleshy desire that is crucified, cannot have dominion over a man, that ye should obey it in the lusts thereof.

If a man continues to walk in transgression of God's Laws, he is not "Walking" in the Spirit. His Old Man has not been crucified, and the Flesh still has dominion of the mind.

This is what is missing in many of the doctrines and philosophies or this world's religions, in my view.

Great discussion.

 

[HIM]

Great topic Him. I would point out some things regarding Paul's teaching. Before Romans 7, that have provided a little different understanding of Paul's words in Rom. 7. I would like to share them with you. Paul says;

9 Knowing that Christ being raised from the dead dieth no more; death hath no more dominion over him.

10 For in that he died, he died unto sin once: "but in that he liveth", he liveth unto God.

11 Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, "but alive unto God" through Jesus Christ our Lord.

12 Let not sin therefore "reign" in your "mortal body", (Flesh) that ye should obey it in the lusts thereof.

13 Neither yield ye your members as instruments of unrighteousness unto sin: but "yield yourselves" (not just our mind, but our mortal body as well) unto God, as those that are alive from the dead, and your members (Ears, Eyes, Hands and feet) as instruments of righteousness unto God. 14 For sin "shall not have dominion over you": for ye are not under the law, but under grace.

So isn't Paul saying here to "rule over our flesh", just as God instructed Cain in the beginning? To not let the Flesh rule over our mind?

In like manner, in Roman's 7, 25 I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin. The Law of Sin is Death, Yes? Paul doesn't say here that his flesh serves sin. It serves the Law of Sin, which is death. That's like saying the mind serves God in "don't commit adultery" but the flesh walks over to the neighbor's wife and has its way with her. I don't think that is Paul's teaching here. The Flesh is crucified according to the Law of Sin.

Therefore, Paul's Flesh is dead and no longer controls his mortal body, "to obey it in the lusts thereof". As he says in another place, "Him that steals. let him steal no more". The Flesh no longer directs Paul's Footsteps. His Sinful flesh becomes crucified with Christ, now Paul "Lives unto God" even as the Christ, as the New Man, which after God, not after his flesh as with the old man, is created in righteousness and true Holiness.

With God's Word, AKA "Spirit" in our mind, we serve the Law of God, no longer yielding our members as instruments unto unrighteousness, like stealing, Etc.

With this Yielding oneself a servant to obey God, as one who is alive from the dead, we don't steal. It's not that we think about not stealing, but our flesh steals anyway. Through the Spirit of the Living Christ, our body, flesh, being, doesn't steal. And as long as we "WALK", "In the Spirit" (In God's Word and not our own), we will not Steal.

There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk (Do things not just think things) not after the flesh, (Stealing) but after the Spirit. (Not Stealing) "For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace."

Paul confirms this before Romans 7 & 8.

15 What then? shall we sin, (Steal) because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid.

Of course, a man shouldn't steal just because God has forgiven his sin. He goes on to explain.

16 Know ye not, that to whom "ye yield yourselves" servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?

So again, Paul is showing us who to yield ourselves servants to obey.

I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; (Yielded myself a servant to obey God) but with the flesh the "law" of sin. (The Law of Sin, is Death) As Paul has already established.

1 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound? 2 God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?

A fleshy desire that is crucified, cannot have dominion over a man, that ye should obey it in the lusts thereof.

If a man continues to walk in transgression of God's Laws, he is not "Walking" in the Spirit. His Old Man has not been crucified, and the Flesh still has dominion of the mind.

This is what is missing in many of the doctrines and philosophies or this world's religions, in my view.

Great discussion.

So you did not read the op.

 

[Studyman]

So you did not read the op.

Of course, I read the OP.

Rom 7:20 Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.
Rom 7:21 I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me.
Rom 7:22 For I delight in the law of God after the inward man:
Rom 7:23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity "to the law of sin" which is in my members.

"The law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has set us free "from the law of sin" and death

You said "The law in the above phrase is not the law or a law found in the Book of the Law or of the decalogue".

This is why I replied to you, because my understanding it was God's Law from the beginning.

"If thou doest well, shalt thou not be accepted? and if thou doest not well, sin lieth at the door. And unto thee shall be his desire, and thou shalt rule over him."

And Paul says;

Rom. 7: 9 For I was alive without the law once: but "when the commandment came", sin revived, and I died. 10 And "the commandment", which was ordained to life, I found to be "unto death". (Or the Commandment exposed his transgressions, and by the Commandment, brought him into captivity "to the Law of sin". (The soul that sins shall die)

11 For sin, taking occasion "by the commandment", (Of God, Yes?) deceived me, and by it (the commandments, Yes?) slew me. 12 Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good.

Then Paul asks the perfect question for this topic.

13 Was then that which is good (God's Commandment) made death unto me? God forbid. But sin, that it might appear sin, working death in me by that which is good; (God's commandments) (Why) that sin by the commandment (of God) "might become exceeding sinful".

So the purpose of God's Law, "Thou shall not Covet" and God's Law, "The soul that sins shall die" is not meant to be our destruction, but is to show men how wicked, how evil, how unacceptable it is to transgress God's Commandments. That such behavior is EXCEEDINGLY SINFUL", or really, really bad.

14 For we know that the law (of God) is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.

18 For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not.

So Paul's natural man cannot know how to obey God's Law because he is carnal. But the wages of Sin is death, by God's Law also.

22 For I delight in the law of God after the inward man.

Duet. 6: 24 And the LORD commanded us to do all these statutes, to fear the LORD our God, for our good always, that he might preserve us alive, as it is at this day. 25 And it shall be our righteousness, if we observe to do all these commandments before the LORD our God, as he hath commanded us.

23 But I see another law (Of God) in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity "to the law of sin" which is in my members.

Duet. 28: 15 But it shall come to pass, if thou wilt not hearken unto the voice of the LORD thy God, to observe to do all his commandments and his statutes which I command thee this day; that all these curses shall come upon thee, and overtake thee (bring him into captivity to the Law of sin)

Rom 7:24 O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?

Rom 7:25 I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.

The flesh is crucified along with Christ, and being dead, no longer rules my Walk.

Think about it. When God said "Thou shall not" or "You shall surely die", there exists the capacity for both good and evil by virtue of HIS Word. A choice is created upon HIM speaking the words. Once a man does what God instructed him not to do this man in brought into the captivity of sin and death. There is no LAW which can bring this man out of this condition.

Paul said the reason for this death, which there is no Law we can do to reverse, was to show God's People just how wicked rejecting His Commandments are. So evil, that it took the Blood of His Own Son to reverse the condemnation. A man who understands this, no longer wants to guide his own footsteps, walk in his own ways, promote his own religious traditions. He learns to "With the mind, serve the Law of God, while the flesh dies daily, as the cross we are told to take up.

Romans 81 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. (God's Good, Just and Holy commandment)

2 For (God's) law of the Spirit of life (Which is) in Christ Jesus (Who never sinned, and therefore was never held captive by God's Law of Sin) hath made me free from (God's) law of sin and death.

3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh: (Set me free from the Law of Sin)

4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, "who walk" not after the flesh, (Which lusteth after sin) but after the Spirit. (Serve the Law of God like Jesus did)

I agree that Paul is hard to understand. But i don't agree that the LAW he is speak to here, and not God's Law as defined in the Law and Prophets.

Nevertheless, it is good for men to have these discussions. Thanks for posting the OP.

 

[Mr. M]

1 Timothy 1:
5 Now the purpose of the commandment is love from a pure heart,
from a good conscience, and from sincere faith,
6 from which some, having strayed, have turned aside to idle talk,
7 desiring to be teachers of the law, understanding neither
what they say nor the things which they affirm.
8 But we know that the law is good if one uses it lawfully,
9 knowing this: that the law is not made for a righteous person,
but for the lawless and insubordinate, for the ungodly and for sinners,
for the unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers
and murderers of mothers, for man slayers,
10 for fornicators, for sodomites, for kidnappers, for liars, for perjurers,
and if there is any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine,
11 according to the glorious gospel of the blessed God which was committed to my trust.

Romans 7:
4 Therefore, my brethren, you also have become dead to the law through the body of Christ,
that you may be married to another—to Him who was raised from the dead,
that we should bear fruit to God.
5 For when we were in the flesh, the sinful passions which were aroused by the law
were at work in our members to bear fruit to death.
6 But now we have been delivered from the law, having died to what we were held by,
so that we should serve in the newness of the Spirit and not in the oldness of the letter.

One Law, with two passions aroused in opposition.
Delight in the inward man, sinful passions in the flesh.
24 O wretched man that I am! Who will deliver me from this body of death?
25 I thank God—through Jesus Christ our Lord!
So then, with the mind I myself serve the law of God, but with the flesh the law of sin.

Re-iterating:
Romans 8:
3 For what the law could not do in that it was weak through the flesh,
God did by sending His own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh,
on account of sin: He condemned sin in the flesh,
4 that the righteous requirement of the law might be fulfilled in us
who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the Spirit.

What shall we say then concerning the righteous requirements of the Law?
A sincere faith, a pure heart, and a clear conscience, of which much can be said.

 

[Brightfame52]

If we condition our salvation on something we do or abstain from doing, then we have not been set free from the law of sin and death.

 

[Studyman]

If we condition our salvation on something we do or abstain from doing, then we have not been set free from the law of sin and death.

God Himself conditions our Salvation on something we do. It seems that if God is the Creator and Giver of Salvation, then men seeking God's Salvation will trust "His" Instruction, rather than another voice in the garden HE placed us in.

 

[HIM]

One Law, with two passions aroused in opposition.
Delight in the inward man, sinful passions in the flesh.

No,
Paul states this law is another law in verse 23 in contrast to the Law of God he delights in, in verse 22. This was said in contrast to the law he said he found in verse 21. Which was said in context to the fact that when he would do good evil is present with him and the good that he would he can't, but the evil that he would not that he does. Stating so he then says it wasn't him that is doing it but the sin that dwells in Him. This the law he found that is the other law warring in his member against the Law that he delights in, the Law of God. Can't get any clearer than that. Take care.

Rom 7:19 For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do.
Rom 7:20 Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.
Rom 7:21 I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me.
Rom 7:22 For I delight in the law of God after the inward man:
Rom 7:23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.

 

[HIM]

If we condition our salvation on something we do or abstain from doing, then we have not been set free from the law of sin and death.

This post of yours does not address the OP and what is shared. Address the OP please.

 

[HIM]

Of course, I read the OP.

Rom 7:20 Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.
Rom 7:21 I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me.
Rom 7:22 For I delight in the law of God after the inward man:
Rom 7:23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity "to the law of sin" which is in my members.

"The law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has set us free "from the law of sin" and death

You said "The law in the above phrase is not the law or a law found in the Book of the Law or of the decalogue".

This is why I replied to you, because my understanding it was God's Law from the beginning.

"If thou doest well, shalt thou not be accepted? and if thou doest not well, sin lieth at the door. And unto thee shall be his desire, and thou shalt rule over him."

And Paul says;

Rom. 7: 9 For I was alive without the law once: but "when the commandment came", sin revived, and I died. 10 And "the commandment", which was ordained to life, I found to be "unto death". (Or the Commandment exposed his transgressions, and by the Commandment, brought him into captivity "to the Law of sin". (The soul that sins shall die)

11 For sin, taking occasion "by the commandment", (Of God, Yes?) deceived me, and by it (the commandments, Yes?) slew me. 12 Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good.

Then Paul asks the perfect question for this topic.

13 Was then that which is good (God's Commandment) made death unto me? God forbid. But sin, that it might appear sin, working death in me by that which is good; (God's commandments) (Why) that sin by the commandment (of God) "might become exceeding sinful".

So the purpose of God's Law, "Thou shall not Covet" and God's Law, "The soul that sins shall die" is not meant to be our destruction, but is to show men how wicked, how evil, how unacceptable it is to transgress God's Commandments. That such behavior is EXCEEDINGLY SINFUL", or really, really bad.

14 For we know that the law (of God) is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.

18 For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not.

So Paul's natural man cannot know how to obey God's Law because he is carnal. But the wages of Sin is death, by God's Law also.

22 For I delight in the law of God after the inward man.

Duet. 6: 24 And the LORD commanded us to do all these statutes, to fear the LORD our God, for our good always, that he might preserve us alive, as it is at this day. 25 And it shall be our righteousness, if we observe to do all these commandments before the LORD our God, as he hath commanded us.

23 But I see another law (Of God) in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity "to the law of sin" which is in my members.

Duet. 28: 15 But it shall come to pass, if thou wilt not hearken unto the voice of the LORD thy God, to observe to do all his commandments and his statutes which I command thee this day; that all these curses shall come upon thee, and overtake thee (bring him into captivity to the Law of sin)

Rom 7:24 O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?

Rom 7:25 I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.

The flesh is crucified along with Christ, and being dead, no longer rules my Walk.

Think about it. When God said "Thou shall not" or "You shall surely die", there exists the capacity for both good and evil by virtue of HIS Word. A choice is created upon HIM speaking the words. Once a man does what God instructed him not to do this man in brought into the captivity of sin and death. There is no LAW which can bring this man out of this condition.

Paul said the reason for this death, which there is no Law we can do to reverse, was to show God's People just how wicked rejecting His Commandments are. So evil, that it took the Blood of His Own Son to reverse the condemnation. A man who understands this, no longer wants to guide his own footsteps, walk in his own ways, promote his own religious traditions. He learns to "With the mind, serve the Law of God, while the flesh dies daily, as the cross we are told to take up.

Romans 81 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. (God's Good, Just and Holy commandment)

2 For (God's) law of the Spirit of life (Which is) in Christ Jesus (Who never sinned, and therefore was never held captive by God's Law of Sin) hath made me free from (God's) law of sin and death.

3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh: (Set me free from the Law of Sin)

4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, "who walk" not after the flesh, (Which lusteth after sin) but after the Spirit. (Serve the Law of God like Jesus did)

I agree that Paul is hard to understand. But i don't agree that the LAW he is speak to here, and not God's Law as defined in the Law and Prophets.

Nevertheless, it is good for men to have these discussions. Thanks for posting the OP.

Paul states this law is another law in verse 23. The word another is heteros in the Greek and means different. THIS is said in contrast to the Law of God he delights in, in verse 22.
AND This was said in contrast to the law he said he found in verse 21. Which was said in context to the fact that when he would do good evil is present with him and the good that he would he can't, but the evil that he would not, that he does. Stating so he then says it wasn't him that is doing it but the sin that dwells in Him. This the law he found that is the other law warring in his member against the Law that he delights in, the Law of God, the Torah. Can't get any clearer than that.



Rom 7:19 For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do.
Rom 7:20 Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.
Rom 7:21 I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me.
Rom 7:22 For I delight in the law of God after the inward man:
Rom 7:23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.

 

[Aviel]

21, "I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me."

The power of sin, is the law.
The law is the power of sin.

That's a CURSE...

So, "Christ has redeemed us from the CURSE of the Law"

How?

"Christ is the END .. OF... THE.. .LAW, for righteousness....to everyone who believes"

Final answer?

The born again "are NOT UNDER THE LAW......but under Grace".

"The law came by moses.. but GRACE and TRUTH, came By Jesus Christ".


End result.. ????

"As JESUS IS>...so are the born again... in THIS World"...

 

[Studyman]

Paul states this law is another law in verse 23. The word another is heteros in the Greek and means different. THIS is said in contrast to the Law of God he delights in, in verse 22.
AND This was said in contrast to the law he said he found in verse 21. Which was said in context to the fact that when he would do good evil is present with him and the good that he would he can't, but the evil that he would not, that he does. Stating so he then says it wasn't him that is doing it but the sin that dwells in Him. This the law he found that is the other law warring in his member against the Law that he delights in, the Law of God, the Torah. Can't get any clearer than that.

I understand your teaching here Him. I just don't agree with it according to what the scriptures actually say.

In the Torah, God says "If you Obey ME, you shall Live". I believe this was "The Law of the Spirit of Life" that was in Christ.

Both Paul and I delight in the Law of God after the inward man. "The Law of the Spirit of Life".

But in the same Torah, there exists "another law" given by the same God which says, "If you disobey MY Laws you shall die". How can you say the one Law of God doesn't war against the other? And yet, that is what you are saying.

22 For I delight in the law of God after the inward man:

23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin (the soul that sins shall die) which is in my members. 24 O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?

It seems you are promoting the philosophy that Paul can't do anything to stop himself from sinning. That he can't obey God's Law because his flesh won't let him. A very popular teaching of this world. But when I read all of Paul's instructions here, he tells me "Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, that ye should obey it in the lusts thereof."

And again: "Neither yield ye your members as instruments of unrighteousness unto sin: but yield yourselves unto God, as those that are alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness unto God.

But how do I do this because I am carnal, and am already sold to sin which means I am dead in my trespasses. "Who shall deliver me from this body of death"?

I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; "The Law of the Spirit of life", but with the flesh the law of sin. "Put to death". Paul confirms this in the next chapter.

1 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, "who walk" (Not just say or think) not after the flesh, (Carnal, sold unto sin) but after the Spirit. (the Good, Holy and Just Laws of God, like Jesus did.)

Why????

2 For the law of the Spirit of life "in Christ Jesus", (If you obey me you shall live) hath made me free from the law of sin and death. (If you disobey me you shall die.)

This is why Jesus commanded His people to "Be ye perfect, even as your Father in heaven is perfect". This is the "mark of the Prize of the high calling of God", that was IN Christ Jesus, that Paul pressed towards. Not yielding his members as instruments of unrighteousness. "Yielding himself a servant to obey God, so as to become a "Servant of God's Righteousness" and not his own, like His Lord and Savior was. With the mind, serving the Law of God, so as not to let sin therefore reign in your mortal body, that ye should obey it in the lusts thereof.

After all, as Paul teaches, "we are servants to whomever we "Yield ourselves" servants to obey.

 

[HIM]

I understand your teaching here Him. I just don't agree with it according to what the scriptures actually say.

You mean what you think it says.
Take care

 

[Studyman]

You mean what you think it says.
Take care

Sorry, I forgot your 2 rules.

#1 You are always right.

#2 When you are wrong, refer to rule #1

You take care as well.

 

[HIM]

Sorry, I forgot your 2 rules.

#1 You are always right.

#2 When you are wrong, refer to rule #1

You take care as well.

That was said to keep both of us in check. Not one or the other. When you prove wrong what is shown to you in the last post, then we have something to talk about. But the syntax, grammar, and context shown to you on Romans 7:20-23 with the explanation Can not be refuted. Because they are facts. So unless you deal with the facts your conjecture is what is, subjective..

 

[Mr. M]

No,
Paul states this law is another law in verse 23 in contrast to the Law of God he delights in, in verse 22. This was said in contrast to the law he said he found in verse 21. Which was said in context to the fact that when he would do good evil is present with him and the good that he would he can't, but the evil that he would not that he does. Stating so he then says it wasn't him that is doing it but the sin that dwells in Him. This the law he found that is the other law warring in his member against the Law that he delights in, the Law of God. Can't get any clearer than that. Take care.

Rom 7:19 For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do.
Rom 7:20 Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.
Rom 7:21 I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me.
Rom 7:22 For I delight in the law of God after the inward man:
Rom 7:23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.

It is clearer when you include the previous chapters
upon which the chapter you are interpreting expounds.
There is no law for sin apart from God's Law.
If there was, there would have been a transgression of that law.
Death reigned until Moses without a transgression of law.
Romans 5:
12 Therefore, just as through one man sin entered the world, and death through sin,
and thus death spread to all men, because all sinned—
13 For until the law sin was in the world, but sin is not imputed when there is no law.
14 Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over those who had not sinned
according to the likeness of the transgression of Adam, who is a type of Him who was to come.

Sin had no law.
Sin had dominion by death.
Sin was codified by God's Law.

 

[Mr. M]

If we condition our salvation on something we do or abstain from doing, then we have not been set free from the law of sin and death.

We are set free from the law of sin and death by reckoning.
This notion that obeying the Gospel is "salvation by works"
has truly become the classic tradition of men nullifying the Word.
Romans 6:
11 Likewise you also, reckon yourselves to be dead indeed to sin,
but alive to God in Christ Jesus our Lord.
12 Therefore do not let sin reign in your mortal body, that you should obey it in its lusts.
13 And do not present your members as instruments of unrighteousness to sin,
but present yourselves to God as being alive from the dead, and your members
as instruments of righteousness to God.
14 For sin shall not have dominion over you, for you are not under law but under grace.
15 What then? Shall we sin because we are not under law but under grace? Certainly not!
16 Do you not know that to whom you present yourselves slaves to obey,
you are that one’s slaves whom you obey, whether of sin leading to death, or
of obedience leading to righteousness?
17 But God be thanked that though you were slaves of sin, yet you obeyed from the heart
that form of doctrine to which you were delivered.
18 And having been set free from sin, you became slaves of righteousness.

 

[Mr. M]

No,
Paul states this law is another law in verse 23 in contrast to the Law of God he delights in, in verse 22. This was said in contrast to the law he said he found in verse 21. Which was said in context to the fact that when he would do good evil is present with him and the good that he would he can't, but the evil that he would not that he does. Stating so he then says it wasn't him that is doing it but the sin that dwells in Him. This the law he found that is the other law warring in his member against the Law that he delights in, the Law of God. Can't get any clearer than that. Take care.

Rom 7:19 For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do.
Rom 7:20 Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.
Rom 7:21 I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me.
Rom 7:22 For I delight in the law of God after the inward man:
Rom 7:23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.

You are not proving anything by saying the same thing over and over.
You are trying to apply an abstract meaning of the word law, when Paul is being very specific.
Paul's concern is establishing a law for righteousness, as indicated by his use of the word
36X in the epistle, and he defines this very specifically, in terms of obedience.
Romans 6:
16 Do you not know that to whom you present yourselves slaves to obey, you are that one’s slaves whom you obey,
whether of sin leading to death, or of obedience leading to righteousness?
17 But God be thanked that though you were slaves of sin, yet you obeyed from the heart
that form of doctrine to which you were delivered.
18 And having been set free from sin, you became slaves of righteousness.
19 I speak in human terms because of the weakness of your flesh. For just as you presented your members as slaves of uncleanness, and of lawlessness leading to more lawlessness, so now present your members as slaves of righteousness for holiness.

There only exists a 'law of sin' to the extent that there is an opposition to obeying God's Law.
This is easily seen and made clear much earlier, when he states:
Romans 2:
12 For as many as have sinned without law will also perish without law, and as many as have sinned in the law will be judged by the law
13 (for not the hearers of the law are just in the sight of God, but the doers of the law will be justified;
14 for when Gentiles, who do not have the law, by nature do the things in the law, these, although not having the law,
are a law to themselves,
15 who show the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness,
and between themselves their thoughts accusing or else excusing them)
16 in the day when God will judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ, according to my gospel.

A law unto themselves? Whuuuut?
Paul is referring to a "code of conduct" dictated by conscience, that is,
the realization that harming a neighbor is wrong, and should not be done.
He then goes on to define love by this standard!
Romans 13:10 Love does no harm to a neighbor; therefore love is the fulfillment of the law.

The Law of the Spirit of live in Christ Jesus is the perfection of this righteous code of conduct
that follows the conscience, where the law is "written on our hearts".
James calls this the perfect law of liberty. James 1:25
2:12 So speak and so do as those who will be judged by the law of liberty.

Paul confirms this:
2 Corinthians 3:
16 Nevertheless when one turns to the Lord, the veil is taken away.
17 Now the Lord is the Spirit; and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty.

The weakness of the flesh nullified the righteousness of the law by directing us
to obey our baser inclinations. He only refers to this as "another law", because
of that weakness of their flesh.
19 I speak in human terms because of the weakness of your flesh.
Those who are led by the Spirit are not under law.
He does not say "either one of the laws"
Paul's topic is not law, as yours is, it is righteousness and life.
Galatians 3:21 Is the law then against the promises of God? Certainly not!
For if there had been a law given which could have given life,
truly righteousness would have been by the law.

And the Kingdom of heaven is in this righteousness, peace,
and joy in the Holy Spirit!

 

[Brightfame52]

God Himself conditions our Salvation on something we do. It seems that if God is the Creator and Giver of Salvation, then men seeking God's Salvation will trust "His" Instruction, rather than another voice in the garden HE placed us in.

If we condition our salvation on something we do or abstain from doing, then we have not been set free from the law of sin and death.

 

[Brightfame52]

This post of yours does not address the OP and what is shared. Address the OP please.

It addressed it to my understanding