The Infallible Word of God versus Human Error

[Thijs Hottenhuis]

You have Google. Look it up for yourself the same way I did.

This is really weird. You make a claim which seems outlandish; I give you a chance to prove to me that your statement is correct, and you refer me to Google. Holy mackerel!

If I want to know what God is saying directly to me, either for my education or instruction, I read the Bible. If I want to hear God's voice out loud, I read the Bible out loud. If I want to do God's will, I do the prescriptive parts of the Bible.

The Bible is a great work of inspiration. I recommend it to everyone. Yet I believe and experience that Christianity is all about having a living relationship with the Holy Trinity within, a personal relationship with the Divine. How else could the signs and wonders follow, God’s Grace be experienced?

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

This is really weird. You make a claim which seems outlandish; I give you a chance to prove to me that your statement is correct, and you refer me to Google. Holy mackerel!

The Bible is a great work of inspiration. I recommend it to everyone. Yet I believe and experience that Christianity is all about having a living relationship with the Holy Trinity within, a personal relationship with the Divine. How else could the signs and wonders follow, God’s Grace be experienced?

So, if your spirit guide told you things that either are missing from the Bible or contradict the Bible, would you believe your spirit guide because he spoke directly to you and you had a peace about it?

About signs and wonders following, they aren't. Apart from the talk, speechmaking and promises, nothing is happening.

 

[Thijs Hottenhuis]

So, if your spirit guide told you things that either are missing from the Bible or contradict the Bible, would you believe your spirit guide because he spoke directly to you and you had a peace about it?

About signs and wonders following, they aren't. Apart from the talk, speechmaking and promises, nothing is happening.

This is absurd. I don’t talk about a “spirit guide contradicting the Bible.” Why are you asking me questions like these?

Let’s not get into an endless debate. I am really curious how you experience the Love of God. Don’t you think this will inspire us both to talk about that? I experience it through the signs and wonders happening in my life, for example. Are you willing to share with me how you experience the Love of God?

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

This is absurd. I don’t talk about a “spirit guide contradicting the Bible.” Why are you asking me questions like these?

Let’s not get into an endless debate. I am really curious how you experience the Love of God. Don’t you think this will inspire us both to talk about that? I experience it through the signs and wonders happening in my life, for example. Are you willing to share with me how you experience the Love of God?

If a person is being guided by an inner spiritual voice, then it is a spirit guide. We are told not to believer every spirit but to test whether it is of God. The Bible is our only standard for testing any spirit. We build our theology on the Bible. We should not build theology on experiences. For this reason, I see the love of God in the Biblical account of what Jesus did for me on the Cross, taking the penalty for my sins, and being raised from the dead so that I could have eternal life. The Scripture says that God commended His love toward us that even while we were yet sinners, Christ loved us and gave Himself for us.

I don't try to experience the love of God outside of the Bible, because I would be seeking another god out of my imagination instead of the God of the Bible, and that is idolatry having an imaginary image of God.

There are two places where the Bible talks about signs and wonders. 1. The signs and wonders that followed the Apostles' preaching of the Gospel of Christ and they happened to unconverted Jews and pagans with the result that many turned to Christ. 2. False signs and wonders done by the false prophets and the antiChrist after all the true believers have been taken up with the Rapture.

The Scripture says that true signs and wonders were performed by the Apostles of Christ. There are no Apostles of Christ today because no one can meet the criteria. So the signs and wonders you are talking about experiencing are not the signs and wonders done by the Apostles. The claims made by the signs and wonders movement are false. Although there is talk and speechmaking about them, they are not happening.

 

[ARBITER01]

This is absurd. I don’t talk about a “spirit guide contradicting the Bible.” Why are you asking me questions like these?

Let’s not get into an endless debate. I am really curious how you experience the Love of God. Don’t you think this will inspire us both to talk about that? I experience it through the signs and wonders happening in my life, for example. Are you willing to share with me how you experience the Love of God?

Before you get too wrapped up in his unbiblical statements, do understand that he has taken a more cessationalist stance here recently. A lot of what he posts here anymore is very toxic to those of us who believe in the gifts and their operations by The Holy Spirit.

Just figured I would clue you in here before you got sent down an unnecessary rabbit hole of ridiculousness.

 

[Vambram]

I believe that the indwelling Holy Spirit of God within the born-again believer is just as important to understanding the Lord and Savior as are the Scriptures in understanding Him. I believe that both the Scriptures and the Holy Spirit are equally important to appreciate and acknowledge God's will in my life.

 

[Thijs Hottenhuis]

Before you get too wrapped up in his unbiblical statements, do understand that he has taken a more cessationalist stance here recently. A lot of what he posts here anymore is very toxic to those of us who believe in the gifts and their operations by The Holy Spirit.

Just figured I would clue you in here before you got sent down an unnecessary rabbit hole of ridiculousness.

Thanks for the update, much appreciated. I can’t do much with the cessationalist stance, because miracles are happening in my life regularly. So any theory that miracles stopped happening after the apostles left is just plain nonsense to me. Not because I believe I am special, but because our Amazing God wants to work through me with His Grace. Hallelujah!

 

[Thijs Hottenhuis]

If a person is being guided by an inner spiritual voice, then it is a spirit guide. We are told not to believer every spirit but to test whether it is of God. The Bible is our only standard for testing any spirit. We build our theology on the Bible. We should not build theology on experiences. For this reason, I see the love of God in the Biblical account of what Jesus did for me on the Cross, taking the penalty for my sins, and being raised from the dead so that I could have eternal life. The Scripture says that God commended His love toward us that even while we were yet sinners, Christ loved us and gave Himself for us.

I don't try to experience the love of God outside of the Bible, because I would be seeking another god out of my imagination instead of the God of the Bible, and that is idolatry having an imaginary image of God.

There are two places where the Bible talks about signs and wonders. 1. The signs and wonders that followed the Apostles' preaching of the Gospel of Christ and they happened to unconverted Jews and pagans with the result that many turned to Christ. 2. False signs and wonders done by the false prophets and the antiChrist after all the true believers have been taken up with the Rapture.

The Scripture says that true signs and wonders were performed by the Apostles of Christ. There are no Apostles of Christ today because no one can meet the criteria. So the signs and wonders you are talking about experiencing are not the signs and wonders done by the Apostles. The claims made by the signs and wonders movement are false. Although there is talk and speechmaking about them, they are not happening.

I really cannot relate to most of the things you are saying. To me, Christianity without experiences is dead. And I am grateful that the way I experience it is not dead. To me, the Bible is the “finger pointing to God.” The Bible is not a goal in itself for me.

I am blessed with miracles, which are being performed through me, like people being healed by me praying for healing in Jesus’ Name. That is totally biblical, to wherever you go, lay hands on the sick and pray for healing for them. I am grateful for the experiences I have and for the miracles which are happening in my life, hallelujah!

You say, “There are no Apostles of Christ today because no one can meet the criteria.” This I don’t get. Aren’t being created by God and being guided by His Voice the right criteria? Are not those who do that “the Body of Christ”? If not, what are the criteria?

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

I really cannot relate to most of the things you are saying. To me, Christianity without experiences is dead. And I am grateful that the way I experience it is not dead. To me, the Bible is the “finger pointing to God.” The Bible is not a goal in itself for me.

I am blessed with miracles, which are being performed through me, like people being healed by me praying for healing in Jesus’ Name. That is totally biblical, to wherever you go, lay hands on the sick and pray for healing for them. I am grateful for the experiences I have and for the miracles which are happening in my life, hallelujah!

You say, “There are no Apostles of Christ today because no one can meet the criteria.” This I don’t get. Aren’t being created by God and being guided by His Voice the right criteria? Are not those who do that “the Body of Christ”? If not, what are the criteria?

Because every spirit has to be tested, and every prophetic word, including words spoken to you by what you believe is the Holy Spirit has to be judged by experienced and mature believers who are able discern between good and evil. So if you claim that the Holy Spirit speaks to you and you do not allow other more experienced believers to judge it, then what you are hearing is suspect.

The same goes for claims of healing. Just because someone feels that they are healed, it needs to be validated by documentary evidence from the person's medical professional. Often in hyped up meetings, adrenalin can cause a person to feel much better at the time and pain can be reduced, but when the adrenalin wears off, the person could return to the state they were before.

The Scripture says to prove all things,( including claims of healing), and hold fast to what is good.

 

[Thijs Hottenhuis]

Because every spirit has to be tested, and every prophetic word, including words spoken to you by what you believe is the Holy Spirit has to be judged by experienced and mature believers who are able discern between good and evil. So if you claim that the Holy Spirit speaks to you and you do not allow other more experienced believers to judge it, then what you are hearing is suspect.

The same goes for claims of healing. Just because someone feels that they are healed, it needs to be validated by documentary evidence from the person's medical professional. Often in hyped up meetings, adrenalin can cause a person to feel much better at the time and pain can be reduced, but when the adrenalin wears off, the person could return to the state they were before.

The Scripture says to prove all things,( including claims of healing), and hold fast to what is good.

What about my question about the apostles, about no one meeting the criteria?

This is getting more and more convoluted. Now you talk about “experienced and mature believers”. Do you mean that you are one of the more experienced and mature believers and people should listen to you?

And related to experienced and mature believers, how can they become experienced and mature believers in any other way than, by trial and error, pray for guidance and learning to follow the still small voice within, from the Holy Spirit?

I hope you can answer these questions, because otherwise I am going to call it a day with this thread. No offence, but exchanges like this don’t lead to either more inspiration or more clarity.

 

[timothyu]

, how can they become experienced and mature believers

Many unfortunately follow tradition do they not?

 

[Guojing]

I can’t do much with the cessationalist stance, because miracles are happening in my life regularly. So any theory that miracles stopped happening after the apostles left is just plain nonsense to me.

Does this mean that, if there comes a time you stop seeing miracles happening in your life regularly, you will be more open to that stance?

 

[ARBITER01]

Many unfortunately follow tradition do they not?

Or,... in the case here lately,.... they think all they need is just their bibles. In their view, they trust it more than The Holy Spirit.

 

[timothyu]

they think all they need is just their bibles. In their view, they trust it more than The Holy Spirit.

The Bible can be interpreted in may ways as each seeks to justify their own paths. The HS follows only one path, the path to the Kingdom.

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

What about my question about the apostles, about no one meeting the criteria?

This is getting more and more convoluted. Now you talk about “experienced and mature believers”. Do you mean that you are one of the more experienced and mature believers and people should listen to you?

And related to experienced and mature believers, how can they become experienced and mature believers in any other way than, by trial and error, pray for guidance and learning to follow the still small voice within, from the Holy Spirit?

I hope you can answer these questions, because otherwise I am going to call it a day with this thread. No offence, but exchanges like this don’t lead to either more inspiration or more clarity.

This isn't about me at all. I make no claims. But if there are no mature, experienced believers in your church who are able to judge prophecy or have the competence to test the spirits whether they are of God, then you can never be sure if someone says, "The Holy Spirit spoke to me" he or she is actually hearing from the Holy Spirit or another spirit. You then have to take the person's word for it and hope for the best.

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

The Bible can be interpreted in may ways as each seeks to justify their own paths. The HS follows only one path, the path to the Kingdom.

How would you know that the spirit identifying itself as the Holy Spirit is actually following the right path?

 

[timothyu]

How would you know that the spirit identifying itself as the Holy Spirit is actually following the right path?

I already mentioned the Kingdom. Whatever man does and pins on the HS must follow the will of God, not man, must show the world as backwards in nature to the Kingdom, and that God's will comes before man's. The is the foundation of the Kingdom the path we are guided to be kept upon.. Now you tell me, would the religion teaming up with the Roman Empire be H spirit led or human self will claiming to work for God? Would calling the atomic bomb a gift from God as HS inspired or human justification using God as a supporter? ETC

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

I already mentioned the Kingdom. Whatever man does and pins on the HS must follow the will of God, not man, must show the world as backwards in nature to the Kingdom, and that God's will comes before man's. The is the foundation of the Kingdom the path we are guided to be kept upon.. Now you tell me, would the religion teaming up with the Roman Empire be H spirit led or human self will claiming to work for God? Would calling the atomic bomb a gift from God as HS inspired or human justification using God as a supporter? ETC

I don't understand. Is this Kingdom a place somewhere? If it is on earth, where is it?

 

[Thijs Hottenhuis]

Many unfortunately follow tradition do they not?

Well, following traditions is not bad in itself, I believe, but we need Divine Guidance, from the still small voice within, the Holy Spirit. This is the core of Christianity, as I see and experience it, because without this guidance, I will follow my own worldly habits, and I won’t be following Jesus. So traditions are fine as long as they don’t conflict with the Divine Guidance from the Holy Spirit.

 

[Thijs Hottenhuis]

Does this mean that, if there comes a time you stop seeing miracles happening in your life regularly, you will be more open to that stance?

Well, I have already abundant proof that miracles are happening in my life, so no, that won’t change this trust based on my previous experiences. The stance that there are no miracles happening anymore since the Apostles left is absurd to me.