the hypocrisy of homosexuality

[ByTheSpirit]

So the Church as a whole has REALLY bungled the homosexual thing in my opinion. So many have dug in and chosen homosexuality as the point on which they were going to defend to the tooth, not caring or maybe not realizing that so many other sins are rampant and excessive within their ranks. This may shock some, but the Bible condemns many more sins than just homosexuality. You could even live completely sinless and go to hell if your only fault was not believing. Yet the rhetoric from many pulpits and believers is God hates homosexuality, while in practice lying, greed, thievery, adultery are as rampant as ever. Not until Christians treat all sin as equal will the lost take the Church seriously.

 

[Svt4Him]

All sins aren't equal.

 

[ByTheSpirit]

Well when any one sin results in condemnation, it means they are equal in God's eyes. He didnt say man shall not lay with man as with a woman but if you tell a little white lie that is okay.... he also said do not bear false witness, etc.

Sure as far as real life physical reprocussions for sin, a lie may not have any reprocussions should it go undetected, but then again not every homosexual has an STD either so your comment is somewhat unfounded.

 

[hislegacy]

So, the thread is really about hypocrisy in the church, not as the title suggests.

 

[Svt4Him]

Well when any one sin results in condemnation, it means they are equal in God's eyes. He didnt say man shall not lay with man as with a woman but if you tell a little white lie that is okay.... he also said do not bear false witness, etc.

Sure as far as real life physical reprocussions for sin, a lie may not have any reprocussions should it go undetected, but then again not every homosexual has an STD either so your comment is somewhat unfounded.

No, if you sin, you are a law breaker, so you are guilty, but the punishment is different for different sins. This is evidenced by Jesus when He cried over cities that rejected Him and said it will be better for Sodom and Gomorrah on the day of judgement as they didn't reject as much. It's also evident by the different rewards in heaven, and Jesus said to store heavenly treasures. Different acts, different outcomes.

 

[hislegacy]

No, if you sin, you are a law breaker, so you are guilty, but the punishment is different for different sins. This is evidenced by Jesus when He cried over cities that rejected Him and said it will be better for Sodom and Gomorrah on the day of judgement as they didn't reject as much. It's also evident by the different rewards in heaven, and Jesus said to store heavenly treasures. Different acts, different outcomes.

Valid points

 

[missmarple]

I dont understand the first posting. homosexuality is rampant and excessive within the Church? anyway I will assume the writer didnt mean that and just wasnt clear. The Church is up against this homosexual agenda designed to put christians out of business, pastors out of pulpits and in jail, for refusing to go along with the absolutely ridiculous notion of gay marriage. That isnt marriage. That is no more marriage than a muslm man who marries a 6 yr old girl. we know what real marriage is and so does the world. Marriage is God joining together man and woman who love each other and raise their children together in a stable home. While ISIS is at the gates of Baghdad, Obama is busy trying to force black African nations to accept gay marriage. a "nero" fiddling while rome burns...but its all to GET those hated christians. You dont hear Hilary telling the MUSLIMS they have to give up their religious beliefs and marry gays! NO. only the christians. We will be hated by all for Jesus name. Its happening right now folks.
Pastors will soon have to give up their ordination papers in order to escape having to marry gays or go to jail.

That said, I do believe christians need to use wisdom. When at all possible, christians need to give some leeway to save their businesses. If I ran a bakery, and was asked to bake a gay wedding cake, I would bake the stupid cake. If I ran a bed and breakfast, I would not discriminate against a gay couple. But for pastors, I just dont see there being any option, a christian pastor just cant perform a gay wedding IN MY OPINION.

 

[Messy]

No, if you sin, you are a law breaker, so you are guilty, but the punishment is different for different sins. This is evidenced by Jesus when He cried over cities that rejected Him and said it will be better for Sodom and Gomorrah on the day of judgement as they didn't reject as much. It's also evident by the different rewards in heaven, and Jesus said to store heavenly treasures. Different acts, different outcomes.

Yes but it is in the same row as fornication, drunkenness, outbursts of anger etc. but a lot of times you see people treat it differently. There's that text that they put the creation above the Creator, but people who fornicate do that too.

 

[Alithis]

I dont understand the first posting. homosexuality is rampant and excessive within the Church? anyway I will assume the writer didnt mean that and just wasnt clear. The Church is up against this homosexual agenda designed to put christians out of business, pastors out of pulpits and in jail, for refusing to go along with the absolutely ridiculous notion of gay marriage. That isnt marriage. That is no more marriage than a muslm man who marries a 6 yr old girl. we know what real marriage is and so does the world. Marriage is God joining together man and woman who love each other and raise their children together in a stable home. While ISIS is at the gates of Baghdad, Obama is busy trying to force black African nations to accept gay marriage. a "nero" fiddling while rome burns...but its all to GET those hated christians. You dont hear Hilary telling the MUSLIMS they have to give up their religious beliefs and marry gays! NO. only the christians. We will be hated by all for Jesus name. Its happening right now folks.
Pastors will soon have to give up their ordination papers in order to escape having to marry gays or go to jail.

That said, I do believe christians need to use wisdom. When at all possible, christians need to give some leeway to save their businesses. If I ran a bakery, and was asked to bake a gay wedding cake, I would bake the stupid cake. If I ran a bed and breakfast, I would not discriminate against a gay couple. But for pastors, I just dont see there being any option, a christian pastor just cant perform a gay wedding IN MY OPINION.

wel i guess you could say the church is up against the agenda of the Antichrist in every aspect of life -the spirit which works in the children of disobedience .. Christians can be children of disobedience also ... and they sugar coat it by pointing the finger at that other group because its the one thing they think they are not doing .
i think that's the point of the OP .. overtly pointing out the wrongs of homosexuality in others does not excuse adultery in the church.

 

[Svt4Him]

Yes but it is in the same row as fornication, drunkenness, outbursts of anger etc. but a lot of times you see people treat it differently. There's that text that they put the creation above the Creator, but people who fornicate do that too.

Who cares? Instead of measuring what sin is worse by how much, shouldn't we be warning those who don't know Christ that all sin leads to death instead of telling people not to focus too much on it? For those who are not saved, the law brings them to Christ.

 

[Alithis]

The Lord cares , ... so much that he went to the cross to free us from it . but again -i think that's missing the point of the Op.

 

[ToBeLoved]

The Lord cares , ... so much that he went to the cross to free us from it . but again -i think that's missing the point of the Op.

How exactly did the Lord's going to the cross free us from homosexuality?

The Lord going to the cross free's those saved from the consequences of sin, which is separation from God. Now that we that have been saved have Jesus and the Holy Spirit in us.

Homosexuality is NOT an unforgiveable sin. So... I don't think any of us can put that as a separator between some people and God. If we/they or anyone does they are not following the Word because the Word makes it clear that there is only one unforgivable sin.

Homosexual sexual relations are a sin. But isn't that between the person and the Lord? We all know that God can change our innermost thinking. How do any of us know who is doing what with whom. There are many bi-sexuals out there.

 

[Svt4Him]

When you're brother is in sin, you are to go to him in humility with a desire for reconciliation. So no, it's not just between them and the Lord.

 

[Alithis]

How exactly did the Lord's going to the cross free us from homosexuality?

The Lord going to the cross free's those saved from the consequences of sin, which is separation from God. Now that we that have been saved have Jesus and the Holy Spirit in us.

Homosexuality is NOT an unforgiveable sin. So... I don't think any of us can put that as a separator between some people and God. If we/they or anyone does they are not following the Word because the Word makes it clear that there is only one unforgivable sin.

Homosexual sexual relations are a sin. But isn't that between the person and the Lord? We all know that God can change our innermost thinking. How do any of us know who is doing what with whom. There are many bi-sexuals out there.

"How exactly did the Lord's going to the cross free us from homosexuality?.." did you really ask that ? the same way he frees us from murder (hate) stealing idolatry adultery sexual immorality .. as we learn to obey him he works Godly repentance in us .. sin in ALL its forms held us prisoner , when Christ died on the cross he set us free from sins power by the shedding of his own sinless blood .since it has no power over us .he did not die on the cross to be ineffectual and leave is prisoners to sin but he(being the word of God ) accomplished that for which he was sent .

there is no such thing as a christian homosexual just as there is no such thing as a christian murderer ..
there are people who commit a sin and some refuse to repent of committing it .
just as if a christian continues in sexual immorality and wont repent of it ( like inappropriate content etc ) .
the lord JEsus came to transform us into his own image .. thus we become (by faith in him) NEW creatures in Christ . so if a person says they are a christian homosexual -they are in truth denying Christ JEsus ,they are denying the new creation and cleaving to the old .. thus they declare they have no intent to repent of the old and take on the new .

but the point of the OP (i think) is that the church overtly points the finger at one sect of society and remains frighteningly quiet on all the "other " sins within its own ranks .. and that is the hypocrisy the op is pointing out .

 

[lismore]

So many have dug in and chosen homosexuality as the point on which they were going to defend to the tooth, not caring or maybe not realizing that so many other sins are rampant and excessive within their ranks. .

Homosexuality, especially same sex marriage seems to be the issue that is most relevant these days, in the sense that we are confronted by huge, fundamental and broad changes that were unthinkable even a few years ago. Therefore I think it's understandable that people are confronting this issue more than any other. So far no church (to my knowledge) has stood up and said that many of the 'other sins' were now to be celebrated, but some churches have celebrated same sex weddings.

 

[ByTheSpirit]

[QUOTE="Alithis, post: 67995930, member: 272226"the point of the OP (i think) is that the church overtly points the finger at one sect of society and remains frighteningly quiet on all the "other " sins within its own ranks .. and that is the hypocrisy the op is pointing out .[/QUOTE]

This is what I was getting at... this is why so many are leaving the church in droves. Blatant hypocrisy on issues that are ALL equally denounced by scripture. It is as if at some point someone said that some sins are okay, only the really bad ones (TBD by leadership) should be looked down upon.

No! The same God that said homosexual relations are sin said lying, greed, PRIDE are sin. All have ramifications in this life and the one to come and refusing to address all sin as SIN will continue to drive people away.

 

[ToBeLoved]

as we learn to obey him he works Godly repentance in us

there is no such thing as a christian homosexual just as there is no such thing as a christian murderer ..

so if a person says they are a christian homosexual -they are in truth denying Christ JEsus ,

they are denying the new creation and cleaving to the old .. thus they declare they have no intent to repent of the old and take on the new .

but the point of the OP (i think) is that the church overtly points the finger at one sect of society and remains frighteningly quiet on all the "other " sins within its own ranks .. and that is the hypocrisy the op is pointing out .

The way you word theology is really confusing. I find it's always easier to follow logic if it is with a path that explains where biblically it came from.

The cross freed those born-again from the penalty of sin. Those not born-again the hope of choosing the Lord as their Savior and becoming born-again. All people that are born again can CHOOSE to access the strength of Jesus Christ and the Holy Spirit (there are many Christians who don't access the Lord's help). Such the verse to ask the Lord for what you need. Call on Him. Fellowship with Him to help them fight the sin that plagues them as an individual. If one's sin would be homosexuality, than that would be something that they could get help from God about.

To say that the cross free's us from homosexuality though is just confusing. Even though we have been set free from sin's power over us, we are still carnal beings and we do still have a sin nature that we fight in our hearts and minds.

One must need to want to be set free, it's not just a given that with God we are just set free. It is not the thought of obedience that most of us feel set free, it is out of love for the Lord. Our love for Him causes us to want to be the best that we can be because each one of us is a reflection of Him whether we think we are or not. God works repentence in me not through obedience, but through love.

There being no such thing as a Christian murderer? Oops that is an easy one. Jesus knew one. He was next to Him on the cross and he repented. He joined Jesus in heaven that night. You can read about it further in the Gospels.

If a Christian is a homosexual, they have yet to overcome that sin. God knows that we are all still sinners. He knows that we GROW in our walk with God. We grow in our love. We grow in our faith.

* Jesus loves Christian homosexuals as much as He loves the rest of us. *

"For God so loved the world ..." (note that he didn't say everyone but homosexuals)

 

[Alithis]

The way you word theology is really confusing. I find it's always easier to follow logic if it is with a path that explains where biblically it came from.

The cross freed those born-again from the penalty of sin. Those not born-again the hope of choosing the Lord as their Savior and becoming born-again. All people that are born again can CHOOSE to access the strength of Jesus Christ and the Holy Spirit (there are many Christians who don't access the Lord's help). Such the verse to ask the Lord for what you need. Call on Him. Fellowship with Him to help them fight the sin that plagues them as an individual. If one's sin would be homosexuality, than that would be something that they could get help from God about.

To say that the cross free's us from homosexuality though is just confusing. Even though we have been set free from sin's power over us, we are still carnal beings and we do still have a sin nature that we fight in our hearts and minds.

One must need to want to be set free, it's not just a given that with God we are just set free. It is not the thought of obedience that most of us feel set free, it is out of love for the Lord. Our love for Him causes us to want to be the best that we can be because each one of us is a reflection of Him whether we think we are or not. God works repentence in me not through obedience, but through love.

There being no such thing as a Christian murderer? Oops that is an easy one. Jesus knew one. He was next to Him on the cross and he repented. He joined Jesus in heaven that night. You can read about it further in the Gospels.

If a Christian is a homosexual, they have yet to overcome that sin. God knows that we are all still sinners. He knows that we GROW in our walk with God. We grow in our love. We grow in our faith.

* Jesus loves Christian homosexuals as much as He loves the rest of us. *

"For God so loved the world ..." (note that he didn't say everyone but homosexuals)

The man on the cross was a muderer or theif or both..not a christian untill the moment he was saved.and a homesexual is but a person who lusts (sexual immorality) after the same sex..one he/she becomes a christian they become a new creature in christ..
If they deny that nrw creature then they deny his lordship and are not saved.and so it is with us all.
we are made bew creatures by faith
to deny it and willfully abide in sinful action.is tp deny his lordship .itd all very simple. I dont dpek og ones journey out of sinful habit..but of willful choice to continue in disobedience.

 

[ToBeLoved]

The man on the cross was a muderer or theif or both..not a christian untill the moment he was saved.and a homesexual is but a person who lusts (sexual immorality) after the same sex..one he/she becomes a christian they become a new creature in christ..
If they deny that nrw creature then they deny his lordship and are not saved.and so it is with us all.
we are made bew creatures by faith
to deny it and willfully abide in sinful action.is tp deny his lordship .itd all very simple. I dont dpek og ones journey out of sinful habit..but of willful choice to continue in disobedience.

I think if Jesus decided that the man on the cross was going to heaven, then I do not doubt God Himself. Me thinks Jesus saying he was going to heaven kind of made him a Christian.

I'm so glad God decides and not man. We get it wrong all the time.

 

[ToBeLoved]

The man on the cross was a muderer or theif or both..not a christian untill the moment he was saved.and a homesexual is but a person who lusts (sexual immorality) after the same sex..one he/she becomes a christian they become a new creature in christ..
If they deny that nrw creature then they deny his lordship and are not saved.and so it is with us all.
we are made bew creatures by faith
to deny it and willfully abide in sinful action.is tp deny his lordship .itd all very simple. I dont dpek og ones journey out of sinful habit..but of willful choice to continue in disobedience.

Sanctification takes a lifetime and who is saved is judged by God Himself. The saved person is positionally a new creature in Christ. The person had died to sin with Christ and is born-again a new creature.

After Salvation comes a lifetime of sanctification. That is biblical.

This if someone denies they are a new creature they are not saved is not biblical. Do you have any bible verses that say what you said?