Hello,
I do not believe that all men will be saved eternally. I believe that many will go to the lake of fire for ever and the fire shall never be quenched .
But I do believe that Christ Jesus died for all men, and that there are some verses that cause some confusion in this matter. For example he is the saviour of all men, specially f those that believe.
I believe that all infants when they come into the world are saved by the grace of Christ. He died for their sin ( nature), they have not actually committed sin yet or transgressed so no sin is imputed until they hate the light and until s"sin revives and they die [spiritually] Romans 7:9 etc.
But when sin revives and they hate the light because their deeds are evil then they are condemned and have to be born again. So in this sense Christ did dies for all men, but not all will be saved in the end.
Infant salvation is a vital doctrine in this talk and to shatter some of the false Calvinist views as well.
But there is much to say on this matter. I am a bit busy now.
also "eternal life" is Jesus himself 1 John 1:1,2
Hello my friend. Thank you for continuing to discuss this with me.
You seem to be implying that there is some sort of "age of accountability". I have a few questions and I ask that you please not take offence at what I say.
Despite the fact that this term is found nowhere in Scripture, I have to ask, what is this "age of accountability"?
At what age is a person able to distinguish right from wrong?
Is 12 years enough time? If a 12 year old dies, will they rightly and justifiably be tormented for trillions and trillions and trillions.....of eternal years?
What about 18? Or 20? Or 30? How many years must one live before they are justifiably subjected to trillions and trillions and trillions....of years of eternal torment?
I would like to ask you a hypothetical question if that is okay.
Suppose there is a 23 year old Muslim girl living in Afghanistan. Her entire life, she has been told by everyone she knows to stay away from those "pagan Christians", or else she will be subjected to "Jahannam" where her flesh will be burned off only for new flesh to replace it forever. One day she is walking down the street and a man rapes her while she is wide awake, and then murders her.
When God supposedly subjects her to eternal fire in hell, is this justice? Did this girl have the same opportunity to believe as us in middle America?
Did she ask to be born? Did she ask to be born in Afghanistan to Muslim parents?
I would like to quickly address one of the verses you left for jugghead.
"And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever." Revelation 20:10
First, I want to address the very beginning of Revelation, for there is a single word that explains everything about this verse.
"The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and
signified it by his angel unto his servant John" Revelation 1:1
Signified means: the meaning or idea
expressed by a sign, as
distinct from the physical form in which it is expresses.
Revelation 20:10 is a vision. If I am to take this verse literal, should I also literally believe that:
"These things saith he that holdeth the seven stars in his right hand, who walketh in the midst of the seven golden candlesticks" Revelation 2:1
Is Yeshua literally holding seven stars and seven candlesticks? Why? Do these physical objects not represent something much deeper?
Now I would like to address this verse directly. The first thing I'd like to point out is that the word translated "tormented" comes from the Greek
βασανίζω (basanizo). Strong's Concordance says basanizo literally means:
"
to test (metals) by the touchstone, which is a black siliceous stone used to
test the purity of gold or silver by the colour of the streak produced on it by rubbing it with either metal"
Paul speaks of testing gold and silver in 1 Corinthians:
"Now if any man build upon this foundation
gold, silver, precious stones, WOOD, HAY, STUBBLE;
Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the
day shall declare it, because it shall be
revealed by fire; and the
fire shall
try every man's work of what sort it is.
If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward.
If any man's work shall be
burned, he shall suffer loss:
but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire." 1 Corinthians 3:12
Now let's talk about brimstone. What the heck is brimstone?
Brimstone comes from the Greek
θείου (theion) and Strong's Concordance says:
"
divine incense, because burning brimstone was regarded as having
power to purify, and to ward off disease"
Yet another word that indicates purification rather than torment. I've heard that this brimstone is meant to keep the fire burning hotter and hotter, but brimstone is not even heat conductive!
So now we get to the Lake of Fire. First, we know it is not a literal "body of water of fire". This doesn't even make any sense. And second, we know that it's purpose is to test and purify. Let's look at some other Scriptures that show us fire that purifies.
"Behold, I have
refined thee, but not with silver; I have
chosen thee in the
furnace of affliction." Isaiah 48:10
"And I will bring the third part through the
fire, and will
refine them as
silver is refined, and will
try them as
gold is tried: they shall call on my name, and I will hear them: I will say, It is my people: and they shall say, The LORD is my God." Zechariah 13:9
"But who may abide the day of his coming? and who shall stand when he appeareth?
for he is like a refiner's fire, and like fullers' soap:
"And he shall sit as a
refiner and purifier of silver: and he shall
purify the sons of Levi, and
purge them as
gold and silver, that they may offer unto the LORD an offering in righteousness." Malachi 3:2
"And the
sight of the glory of the LORD was like
devouring fire on the top of the mount in the eyes of the children of Israel." Exodus 24:17
"
Indeed, the LORD your God is a consuming fire. He is a jealous God." Deuteronomy 4:24
"
For our God is a consuming fire." Hebrews 12:29
Can this honestly be interpreted any other way?
God is Love my friend. He does all things after the council of His own Will. And when God wants something, it is impossible for it to be otherwise. For God not to get His way cannot even be considered reality.
God is Love, and Love never fails.
I will wait for you to reply before I get into the last words of this verse:
εἰς τοὺς αἰῶνας τῶν αἰώνων (unto the ages of the ages).
Thank you very much for your time, and God bless you my brother.