The Gates of Hell Shall Not Prevail Against It

[drstevej]

That's right, it was built upon the Foundation of Apostles and Prophets, Jesus Christ being the Chief Cornerstone.

Strange, you don't have Apostles and Prophets?
And don't say you do either, because that wouldn't be the truth. You've "removed" those stones from the Church, thinking they're "not necessary".

The foundation was laid.

We do not need later-day Mormon prophets to try to "FliP" the building.

 

[williamgramsmith]

The Jews thought they didn't "need" the Apostles either....

Further, you avoid the point. You deny their necessity, which is not Biblical.

 

[drstevej]

The Jews thought they didn't "need" the Apostles either....

Further, you avoid the point. You deny their necessity, which is not Biblical.

I accept the biblical prophets and apostles. I reject the Mormon "upgrades" and the First Vision plan to "Flip" Christianity.

You have misrepresented my views.

 

[Rescued One]

The foundation was laid.

We do not need later-day Mormon prophets to try to "FliP" the building.

Exactly! When Christ died, Christians didn't look for a replacement. The foundation doesn't need replacing.

 

[williamgramsmith]

We aren't talking about "Christ" here..... We are talking about the Foundation of Apostles and Prophets.

We already know Christ is the Chief Cornerstone. That's not the issue.

 

[drstevej]

The Foundation is already laid. No "upgrade" prophets included and no add on decks or garages accepted.

At present only "living stones" are being added according to the Bible. I was added in 1967.

 

[williamgramsmith]

Nope.... The fact that there were even Apostles in the first place, and replacement Apostles, and ALL TIMES BEFORE there were Prophets leading God's people accept when they were in apostasies, proves unequivocally that God requires authorized living servants to lead the Church and His people.

You both thinking that "real" Prophets/Apostles aren't necessary and that YOU are equivalent to living Prophets/Apostles which is entirely unBiblical makes clear that you have no authority whatsoever to speak for God.

Foundation of Apostles and Prophets, that foundation has ALWAYS been LIVING Apostles and Prophets, not dead ones. Your "theology" is contrary to the Word, and adding to it.

Also, we are not an "upgrade" we are the Restoration by God Himself, Christ and his Angels, and there are many witnesses and testimony's of it, as well as evidences, scriptures, etc. We aren't like other religions and false prophets who have no witnesses and evidences at all.

 

[drstevej]

We aren't like other religions and false prophets who have no witnesses and evidences at all.

Try again...

Eight Scholars on Joseph Smith's Book of Abraham Translation

In his 1912 publication of "Joseph Smith, Jr., As a Translator," J.S. Spaulding solicited the views of eight scholars regarding Joseph Smith's Book of Abraham translation. Below are excerpts from their comments:

"It is difficult to deal seriously with Joseph Smith's impudent fraud."

Dr. A.H. Sayce, Oxford, England

"I have examined the illustrations given in the 'Pearl of Great Price.' In the first place, they are copies (very badly done) of well known Egyptian subjects of which I have dozens of examples. Secondly, they are all many centuries later than Abraham."

Dr. W.M. Flinders Petrie, London University

"Joseph Smith's interpretation of them as part of a unique revelation through Abraham, therefore, very clearly demonstrates that he was totally unacquainted with the significance of these documents and absolutely ignorant of the simplest facts of Egyptian writing and civilization."

James, H. Breasted, Ph.D., Haskell Oriental Museum, University of Chicago

"The 'Book of Abraham,' it is hardly necessary to say, is a pure fabrication."

Dr. Arthur C. Mace, Assist. Curator, Metropolitan Museum of Art, NY, Dept. of Egyptian Art

"The plates contained in the 'Pearl of Great Price' are rather comical and a very poor imitation of Egyptian originals."

Dr. John Peters, Univ. of Pennsylvania

"...the explanatory notes to his facsimiles cannot be taken seriously by any scholar, as they seem to be undoubtedly the work of pure imagination."

Rev. Prof. C.A.B. Mercer, Ph.D., Western Theological Seminary, Custodian Hibbard Collection, Egyptian Reproductions.

"The Egyptian papyrus which Smith declared to be the 'Book of Abraham,' and 'translated' or explained in his fantastical way, and of which are three specimens are published in the 'Pearl of Great Price' are parts of the well known 'Book of the Dead.' Although the reproductions are very bad, one can easily recognize familiar scenes from this book."

Dr. Edward Meyer, University of Berlin

"A careful study has convinced me that Smith probably believed seriously to have deciphered the ancient hieroglyphics, but that he utterly failed. What he calls the 'Book of Abraham' is a funeral Egyptian text, probably not older than the Greek ages."

Dr. Friedrich Freiheer Von Bissing, Professor of Egyptology in the University of Munich

The Book of Abraham | Mormonism Research Ministry

 

[Rescued One]

We aren't talking about "Christ" here..... We are talking about the Foundation of Apostles and Prophets.

We already know Christ is the Chief Cornerstone. That's not the issue.

Are you suggesting that the foundation was made of the wrong apostles and prophets? Can you tell us why Christ would choose the wrong stones for the foundation?

 

[Rescued One]

You both thinking that "real" Prophets/Apostles aren't necessary and that YOU are equivalent to living Prophets/Apostles which is entirely unBiblical makes clear that you have no authority whatsoever to speak for God.

Those whom we believe are part of the foundation aren't artificial.

 

[interpreter]

The gates of hell shall not prevail over the Church, which has ruled the earth since 312 AD. The US Church now rules the earth. Our weapons bring hell and death.

 

[Norah63]

Many churches no longer believe for apostles or prophets. They only have a pastor that is also their teacher. They like it that way, and anything else is just off their radar.
Home churches can, and some do have apostles prophets. Deacon are in some, many use the term elders. I have never met a Bishop, not sure what churches have them.
Authority is a sticky subject, as we are living in a time when every man walks in his own way. prodestants call it the 'priesthood of the believer'. All claim Jesus Christ as their high priest, but they don't allow for other faiths to do that.
Much compitition in the world of religion. That comes out in many ways. Some just make fun of anything they dont like. Shows intolerance.
The gates of hell shall not prevail against the church of Jesus Christ.
Keep the faith brothers and sisters.

 

[Der Alte]

Many churches no longer believe for apostles or prophets. They only have a pastor that is also their teacher. They like it that way, and anything else is just off their radar.
Home churches can, and some do have apostles prophets. Deacon are in some, many use the term elders. I have never met a Bishop, not sure what churches have them.
Authority is a sticky subject, as we are living in a time when every man walks in his own way. prodestants call it the 'priesthood of the believer'. All claim Jesus Christ as their high priest, but they don't allow for other faiths to do that.
Much compitition in the world of religion. That comes out in many ways. Some just make fun of anything they dont like. Shows intolerance.
The gates of hell shall not prevail against the church of Jesus Christ.
Keep the faith brothers and sisters.

"Some just make fun of anything they dont like. Shows intolerance." Said the pot to the kettle.

 

[Jack Terrence]

The foundation was laid.

We do not need later-day Mormon prophets to try to "FliP" the building.

 

[Rescued One]

21Wherefore of these men which have companied with us all the time that the Lord Jesus went in and out among us, 22Beginning from the baptism of John, unto that same day that he was taken up from us, must one be ordained to be a witness with us of his resurrection.
Acts 1:21-22

After the resurrection twelve became a permanent number and because Judas was no longer an apostle, another was added to replace Judas so that there would be twelve judges in the millennium.

And Jesus said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That ye which have followed me, in the regeneration when the Son of man shall sit in the throne of his glory, ye also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.
Matthew19:28

 

[Norah63]

Thanks for your answer. Yes I have read that scripture Phoebe.
Have never had it applied to there not being any more apostles after the original twelve. We are in much need today for all the parts of the body of Christ, yet I respect your freedom to not accept those that you do not believe in.
Having listened to apostles preach in some protestant churches and in home churches, so I know there are those today who still believe in all of the parts of the ministry. They are for the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ.
May your faith be strengthened in the great love of our Lord Jesus Christ.

 

[Rescued One]

Thanks for your answer. Yes I have read that scripture Phoebe.
Have never had it applied to there not being any more apostles after the original twelve. We are in much need today for all the parts of the body of Christ, yet I respect your freedom to not accept those that you do not believe in.
Having listened to apostles preach in some protestant churches and in home churches, so I know there are those today who still believe in all of the parts of the ministry. They are for the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ.
May your faith be strengthened in the great love of our Lord Jesus Christ.

I believe that Christ's church was established on a firm foundation of apostles and prophets. And the twelve were sent out as missionaries to the world. The word missionary is not in my Bible, but there are Christian missionaries in many parts of the world.

ἀπόστολος (apóstolos), meaning "one who is sent away"

 

[drstevej]

Yep the great commission is for disciples to make disciples in all of the nations to the end of the age.

And these new disciples are to be baptized. No mention of proxy dunking for dead unbelievers.

 

[bbbbbbb]

Yep the great commission is for disciples to make disciples in all of the nations to the end of the age.

And these new disciples are to be baptized. No mention of proxy dunking for dead unbelievers.

Nor any mention of "priesthood authority" for a small segment of the church either.

 

[branchofthevine]

So just a random post disconnect for your discussion which I'm sure is going swell

When we talk about the gates of hell, does anyone remember when an army ever used gates as on offensive weapon?

gates are always defensive.

Perhaps "the gates not prevailing" is not one of being assaulted, but one of assaulting, meaning perhaps that the Body of Christ, the community of believers, the Church, will knock down the gates of hell and conquer.

Truly, if your gates prevail against an enemy, it means something to the affect of "we stopped them at out gate" but it says the gates will not prevail so perhaps Jesus is saying "My Church will break into hell's territory and conquer"