The Father Cutie Scandal

[JoabAnias]

I'm sure with bishops like Gene Robinson in that Church it really isn't that terrible when you think of it.

Feel blessed you don't have a same sex attaction. What a cross to carry.

 

[Gwendolyn]

Come on, you guys. The offhanded comments in this thread are not charitable. While the state of the Episcopal church is a regrettable one, we shouldn't spew venom - it is possible to constructively critical without being vicious.

 

[JoabAnias]

Luk 16:8 And the lord commended the unjust steward, forasmuch as he had done wisely: for the children of this world are wiser in their generation than the children of light.

Mat 10:21 The brother also shall deliver up the brother to death, and the father the son; and the children shall rise up against their parents, and shall put them to death.

 

[JasonV]

No, I mean it as a serious question. I have seen a number of things like this. I'm not questioning the morality of Anglicans as individual people. As an institution, however, what are the moral standards that are left?

It isn't just a matter of Anglicans accepting homosexuality. It's also a matter of them accepting sex outside of marriage, divorce, men who have abandoned their wives and children. Those who do not believe in the divinity of Christ or His resurrection are allowed to serve as bishops.

I'm asking honestly: Where is the line?

What does Anglicanism share in common with historical Christianity?

It's an honest question.

Grace and peace,
Sbn John

There is one crucial difference between Anglicans and Catholics and Orthodox:

Anglicans are free to admit when they have problems and issues with the Church without risk of excommunication.

 

[BAFRIEND]

There is one crucial difference between Anglicans and Catholics and Orthodox:

Anglicans are free to admit when they have problems and issues with the Church without risk of excommunication.

The Catholic Church is not a democracy, God's laws are not up for debate in God's house.

 

[D'Ann]

It is heart breaking when we as Catholics lack compassion and mercy and forgiveness and understanding towards someone that has slipped away from the Church. Who are we to judge the hearts of anyone? Yes, we can judge that this man has fallen down and has stumbled and that he has walked away from the Priesthood... and that he has fallen inlove with a woman... but you without sin, cast the first stone.

Instead of ripping this man apart and ripping the Episcopalian Church apart... making fun of them in such a polite way.... maybe we all really need to pray. Think about the words of Jesus... those of you without sin, cast the first stone. We are to speak the truth without compromise... but that does not give us the right to do so in a condemning way or in a mocking and belittling way. We should speak the truth with kindness and charity and compassion, knowing that there could be a day when we all could stumble in one way or another... worse perhaps than this man.

Matthew 5.

5 "Blessed are the meek, for they shall inherit the earth. 6 "Blessed are those who hunger and thirst for righteousness, for they shall be satisfied. 7 "Blessed are the merciful, for they shall obtain mercy. 8 "Blessed are the pure in heart, for they shall see God. 9 "Blessed are the peacemakers, for they shall be called sons of God. 10 "Blessed are those who are persecuted for righteousness' sake, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven. 11 "Blessed are you when men revile you and persecute you and utter all kinds of evil against you falsely on my account. 12 Rejoice and be glad, for your reward is great in heaven, for so men persecuted the prophets who were before you.
13 "You are the salt of the earth; but if salt has lost its taste, how shall its saltness be restored? It is no longer good for anything except to be thrown out and trodden under foot by men. 14 "You are the light of the world. A city set on a hill cannot be hid. 15 Nor do men light a lamp and put it under a bushel, but on a stand, and it gives light to all in the house. 16 Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works and give glory to your Father who is in heaven.

1 Corinthians 13:

1 If I speak in the tongues of men and of angels, but have not love, I am a noisy gong or a clanging cymbal. 2 And if I have prophetic powers, and understand all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have all faith, so as to remove mountains, but have not love, I am nothing. 3 If I give away all I have, and if I deliver my body to be burned, but have not love, I gain nothing.
4 Love is patient and kind; love is not jealous or boastful; 5 it is not arrogant or rude. Love does not insist on its own way; it is not irritable or resentful; 6 it does not rejoice at wrong, but rejoices in the right. 7 Love bears all things, believes all things, hopes all things, endures all things. 8 Love never ends; as for prophecies, they will pass away; as for tongues, they will cease; as for knowledge, it will pass away. 9 For our knowledge is imperfect and our prophecy is imperfect; 10 but when the perfect comes, the imperfect will pass away. 11 When I was a child, I spoke like a child, I thought like a child, I reasoned like a child; when I became a man, I gave up childish ways. 12 For now we see in a mirror dimly, but then face to face. Now I know in part; then I shall understand fully, even as I have been fully understood. 13 So faith, hope, love abide, these three; but the greatest of these is love.
​

We are Catholics and we all are called to holiness and to strive to be saint like... I could not see Mother Theresa or Saint Francis or Augustine or Thomas or Mary saying some of these hurtful and disrespectful comments... can you?

 

[BAFRIEND]

My empathy for a priest who leaves the Church is slim, and the reasons in this circumstance are disgusting. And leaving to become clergy in a denomination that has policy in direct conflict of Christian/Catholic moral theology is disturbing.

And you know, I hate to admit this- but I was just watching about the Coleman case where a man seemingly has murdered his wife and two beautiful young sons by strangling them so he would be free to be with a woman he has had an affair with.

An expert gave her opinion that Coleman is a psycopath without empathy who simply discarded his sons like they were garbage for his own personal convenience. I could not help thinking about how Cutie has discarded his faith, Church, God, parish for his own gains.

 

[D'Ann]

My empathy for a priest who leaves the Church is slim, and the reasons in this circumstance are disgusting. And leaving to become clergy in a denomination that has policy in direct conflict of Christian/Catholic moral theology is disturbing.

And you know, I hate to admit this- but I was just watching about the Coleman case where a man seemingly has murdered his wife and two beautiful young sons by strangling them so he would be free to be with a woman he has had an affair with.

An expert gave her opinion that Coleman is a psycopath without empathy who simply discarded his sons like they were garbage for his own personal convenience. I could not help thinking about how Cutie has discarded his faith, Church, God, parish for his own gains.

And you know what that means, as Catholics? What our responsibilities are as Catholics? We are to PRAY for these souls. I understand being angry and disappointed and hurt and perhaps even discouraged by the behavior of others like Cutie... but BAFriend... that is the time that we NEED to pray... pray for them, pray for God to do what needs to be done.

I don't put Cutie in this same category as a sick psychopath... although, I will pray for both of them.

Cutie didn't kill anyone, although, due to his actions, he may have 'helped' stumble some away from the one true Church and that is even more reason to pray for this man.

WE have to PRAY when we see people struggling and falling and walking away from the Church, especially a priest that is well known and loved as this priest seems to be... at least at one time.

As far as Coleman... we need to pray for his soul, because only God knows what is best in this kind of situation.

God calls us Catholics to rise above the way of the world. He calls us to think of things in a holy way... and to walk with holiness. We are called to raise the bar here and to be a light to the darkness. What good is the light, if the dark creeps in with anger and hate and vengence? We are here to pray and to trust God to know what is the right thing to do.

 

[BAFRIEND]

I said I hated to admit it D'Ann- and yes I do pray- but that is the way I feel about it.

Everyone knows the differences and issues and controversy surrounding the Episcopals and in fact many of their members have fled in order to disassociate themselves with the denomination.

Fr. Cutie understands the moral issues with the Episcopal Church and the conflict those issues would create with the RCC- there were other things Cutie could have done, including retaining good standing in the RCC with his wife. But Fr. Cutie has chosen scandal and betrayal instead.

 

[ThePilgrim]

There is one crucial difference between Anglicans and Catholics and Orthodox:

Anglicans are free to admit when they have problems and issues with the Church without risk of excommunication.

The issue isn't personal sin. The issue is doctrinal and moral.

To restate what you said, the difference is that Catholics and Orthodox have a goal in mind and know what it is that we're aiming for.

That having been said, the poster who pointed out that there are a lot of Anglicans in Africa who hold closer to historical Christianity was right.

Grace and peace,
Sbn. John

 

[Joshua G.]

Was this former priest on EWTN or...? Why was he so popular? Sorry, I am too lazy to read through this whole thread for the answer. My wife and I saw this on ne of those TV tabloid shows and didn't understand why this was interesting and we thought that perhaps he must have been famous or well known some how (??) Can you help me out?

 

[D'Ann]

Was this former priest on EWTN or...? Why was he so popular? Sorry, I am too lazy to read through this whole thread for the answer. My wife and I saw this on ne of those TV tabloid shows and didn't understand why this was interesting and we thought that perhaps he must have been famous or well known some how (??) Can you help me out?

I wish that I knew that answer myself. I don't recall hearing his name until the story came out on the news.

Hopefully, someone else will be able to answer your question.

 

[D'Ann]

I said I hated to admit it D'Ann- and yes I do pray- but that is the way I feel about it.

Everyone knows the differences and issues and controversy surrounding the Episcopals and in fact many of their members have fled in order to disassociate themselves with the denomination.

Fr. Cutie understands the moral issues with the Episcopal Church and the conflict those issues would create with the RCC- there were other things Cutie could have done, including retaining good standing in the RCC with his wife. But Fr. Cutie has chosen scandal and betrayal instead.

I'm sorry that you feel the hostility and hurt and anger towards this man. It's heart breaking and we can't help the way we feel about this kind of issue. But what we can help is how we handle it and how we work it out. I don't think it's healthy for any of us to continue this scandal by talking so unkindly about him or his situation. We won't heal that way and it hurts the whole Church more so because it adds to the scandal and the pain of the scandal.

I'm choosing to handle this scandal with praying. Although, everyone is different and we all have to kinda figure it out in how we work through this kind of scandal. I'm not perfect and maybe I'm wrong in entrusting the situation in God's hands and trying to think what would Jesus tell us to do? What would Mary tell us to do? What would the saints tell us to do?

I think we need to pray more and talk less.

And as far as the Episcopalian Church struggling with the secular world and well those issues... we really should be praying for them and not adding to their burdens. They are our brothers and sisters in Christ and they need our prayers.

 

[Fish and Bread]

Was this former priest on EWTN or...? Why was he so popular? Sorry, I am too lazy to read through this whole thread for the answer. My wife and I saw this on ne of those TV tabloid shows and didn't understand why this was interesting and we thought that perhaps he must have been famous or well known some how (??) Can you help me out?

He had a television show on a Spanish-language station or network, and also wrote a book on marriage and love from a Catholic perspective (Which is kind of ironic, under the circumstances ). At least, that's the way I remember it, I may be slightly off on some of the details.

 

[JoabAnias]

I wish that I knew that answer myself. I don't recall hearing his name until the story came out on the news.

I never heard of him either. What I saw described was that he had pop celebrity status in his own parish. Women seem to be making vain swoons over his looks which is probably a part of his whole problem. Though there is probably more to it, that indication seems very shallow.

It will be interesting to see what the Bishop there does now.

I don't know if he has already for sure but His bishop could revoke the priest's permission to celebrate the sacraments as a Catholic priest in the diocese and forbid him to preach or teach on Catholic doctrine and morals.

He would also be subject to dismissal from the clerical state, but would still remain bound by his vow of celibacy unless dispensed from it by the Pope himself.

 

[SpiritualAntiseptic]

There is one crucial difference between Anglicans and Catholics and Orthodox:

Anglicans are free to admit when they have problems and issues with the Church without risk of excommunication.

You clearly don't understand Catholicism.

By problems and issues, what you mean are moral and theological differences that are irreconcilable with the Church. Catholics believe in objective truth which is infallibly taught by the Church- Anglicans do not. When people profess to believe things that are false, then they have placed themselves outside of the Church. Unlike the communion of Anglicans and Ultrechts, the communion of Catholics is one held by a common faith- rather than a common agreement to agree to disagree.

One does not 'risk excommunication' by having problems and issues with the Church. One excommunicates himself when he breaks communion with the Church by professing to believe irreconcilable heresies.

 

[D'Ann]

I never heard of him either. What I saw described was that he had pop celebrity status in his own parish. Women seem to be making vain swoons over his looks which is probably a part of his whole problem. Though there is probably more to it, that indication seems very shallow.

It will be interesting to see what the Bishop there does now.

I don't know if he has already for sure but His bishop could revoke the priest's permission to celebrate the sacraments as a Catholic priest in the diocese and forbid him to preach or teach on Catholic doctrine and morals.

He would also be subject to dismissal from the clerical state, but would still remain bound by his vow of celibacy unless dispensed from it by the Pope himself.

Thanks Joab. Praying for the situation.

 

[CreedIsChrist]

BAFRIEND;




I don't know this nor does the Church.

Are you trying to tell me that a person who was a victim of abuse by a priest, who left the Church will not go to heaven, but that same priest who repents before he dies will?

What about Hitler? If he repented just before he died, did he go to heaven, where the un-Baptised Jews he slaughtered, all went to hell?





.

Jim

Godwin

I called it first I hope



Outta curiosity, if a priest did realize that he made a mistake when taking on the vocation and wants to get married. What is the proper way of doing so? I always thought they could go into the diaconate. At times I can understand a person who feels he made a mistake and went into the wrong vocation

One does not 'risk excommunication' by having problems and issues with the Church. One excommunicates himself when he breaks communion with the Church by professing to believe irreconcilable heresies.

For people confused, he is talking about latae sententiae

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Latae_sententiae



What are the chances the Pope will grant him a dispensation for his vows?

 

[ThePilgrim]

No, an ordained priest cannot go into the diaconate. According to the sacred canons of the Fathers, it is impossible for a man to move backward in the ranks of the Church. He can only fulfill the office given to him or leave the priesthood entirely, either voluntarily, or by being deposed.

A deacon can become a priest and a priest can become a bishop, but a bishop can never become a priest and a priest can never become a deacon.

Grace and peace,
Sbn John

 

[ShannonMcCatholic]

Godwin

I called it first I hope



Outta curiosity, if a priest did realize that he made a mistake when taking on the vocation and wants to get married. What is the proper way of doing so? I always thought they could go into the diaconate. At times I can understand a person who feels he made a mistake and went into the wrong vocation




For people confused, he is talking about latae sententiae

Latae sententiae - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia



What are the chances the Pope will grant him a dispensation for his vows?

The priest can appeal to be laicized. It is a long, complicated process....and the Church will most often not begin proceedings before age 40. It's closest cousin would be the annulment process---except that the priest never loses the indelible mark on his soul he received at Holy ORders.