The Facts About Billy Graham

Simon Peter

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Key words you missed in my post -

P E R S O N A L WEALTH


You are kidding right?

You made at least three posts claiming Billy Graham has an approximate income of $600,000 a year.

I responded to those claims and said Ministry Watch says it's closer to $200,000

Then you say Ministry Watch cannot be trusted, and don't offer proof.

Then I provide you with documented evidence of Billy Graham's $226,920 income; exonerating Ministry Watch.

Then you say what you really meant was "personal wealth" :doh:




peace,
Simon


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Svt4Him

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You are kidding right?

You made at least three posts claiming Billy Graham has an approximate income of $600,000 a year.

I responded to those claims and said Ministry Watch says it's closer to $200,000

Then you say Ministry Watch cannot be trusted, and don't offer proof.

Then I provide you with documented evidence of Billy Graham's $226,920 income; exonerating Ministry Watch.

Then you say what you really meant was "personal wealth" :doh:

peace,
Simon

Sheesh, get it right next time!
 
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Simon Peter

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In one way it is a valid question. Billy receives income from several sources that are known.

The evangelical organization which was shown, but what about the Samaratins Purse, then what about royalties and honorariums?

This is a fair point. It could be that I misunderstood Notsocommonsense's repeated statements about "salary" and "ministry" as his ministry salary, when what he really was talking about was his total income from all sources and his personal net worth, that he possibly alluded to as "personal wealth"?

And again, just to reiterate, I think it's wrong for a ministry leader to be earning in excess of $200,000 in salary, before we've even taken into account other income sources, book sales, investments etc.

If Billy is independently wealthy, and retired, why drain the ministry of $227,000 a year while poor people can barely afford to send $20 a month?

Especially in this day and age, when the US ministry is filled with scam artists who are fleecing the flock. He should use the fame and respect he has to set an example.


peace,
Simon
 
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JimB

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*****

And again, just to reiterate, I think it's wrong for a ministry leader to be earning in excess of $200,000 in salary

*****
You know, $200,000 ain't what it used to be. :)

~Jim
Christianity without signs and wonders is just another religion. ~John Wimber

 
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Simon Peter

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.


You know what, I wasn't imagining things:

1. The biggest compensation gainer among top executives was Franklin Graham of the Billy Graham Evangelistic Association, whose compensation rose 534% to $633,722, much of the gain because of a $366,000 retirement payment.

Graham, 57, son of Billy Graham, also earns $483,000 as CEO of charity Samaritan's Purse.

2.Graham earned $633,722 as President of the Billy Graham Evangelistic Association and another $483,000 from his second job as President of Samaritan's Purse.

Nosocommonsense claims Billy Graham earns salaries of:

Billy Graham Evangelistic Association: $633,722
Samaritan's Purse: $483,000

Total: $1,116,722

The documents say:

Billy Graham Evangelistic Association: $227,000
Samaritan's Purse: $0

But he was sadly close regarding Franklin Graham, who actually earns over a half a million as CEO of Samaritan's Purse!



samaritans.png



You know, $200,000 ain't what it used to be. :)

~Jim

Apparently Franklin Graham agrees with you ;)


peace,
Simon
 
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Leimeng

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~ I notice with sadness that those who push the false gospel of poverty usually have hearts full of covetiousness, greed and selfishness. Bascially they are liberal democrats partially covered in Christian garb.
~ Why are they soo concerned with others make in terms of cash? Where does the so called limit on income come from in the Bible? It has been my experiance by talking with others is that an 'acceptable' limit on what one makes is usually at the top end of what a person believes they personally are capable of earning.
~ I used to hear a phrase a lot when I was growing up as a PK about ministers: "God, you keep him humble and we will keep him poor!"
~ Continue to discuss amongst yourselves...

Peace,

Leimeng

Flatulo Ergo Sum ~~~

(***Insert Personal One Liner Here***)
 
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Tobias

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A minister's income is based upon the generosity of those they minister to. Since everybody loves Billy Graham, there is no ceiling on what he can earn. The limit is set by his own integrity.

Unfortunately for me (financially speaking), my dad chose to be a missionary pilot rather than a big name preacher. Franklin Graham's one year's income could last me a lifetime! I doubt my dad's total retirement savings amounts to his one year's contributions to his retirement account.

Am I bitter? I hope that isn't the case. But people need to realize that there are those working in the trenches for the furtherance of the Gospel, and we who have not sacrificed careers and such can easily forget them and what they do not have! Is it ok that a handful of popular ministers have more than what they ever could spend in a lifetime, while others who have worked just as hard have nothing but the clothes on their backs?

The only reason my folks have any retirement savings is because they got out of the missionary business, and worked a secular job for the past 30 years. I think Wycliffe Bible Translators has developed some kind of retirement plan over the years, but this wasn't the case before.

I guess I just have a real hard time justifying good solid men of integrity taking more money from the Gospel than what they need. If there is an excess, then pass it along to someone less known, who works just as hard!

...Not that Franklin Graham falls under any of this himself. From what I understand he isn't preaching so much as running a non-profit organization. I just brought him up as someone who's dad was in the ministry, kind of like me. My issues with people getting rich off of charity is different than my issues with preachers with their hand in the purse. ;)
 
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Simon Peter

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~ I notice with sadness that those who push the false gospel of poverty usually have hearts full of covetiousness, greed and selfishness.


I've noticed, with sadness, that there are those who defend the gospel of greed.


peace,
Simon
 
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Yitzchak

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You made the claim, you back it up. It's not jimbo's job, it's yours. Shifting the burdon of proof is still a fallacy, as far as I recall.


[SIZE=+1]Shifting the Burden of Proof – occurs when speakers do not prove their own claims while forcing others to prove them.[/SIZE]

A standard rule in argumentation is “he who asserts must prove,” meaning that the writer bears full responsibility to prove that his or her claims are true. Writers and speakers, especially when cornered with tough questions, often speak authoritatively, but they sometimes assume that their assertions are valid and place the onus of proof onto the audience.


[SIZE=+1]FOR YOUR INFORMATION [/SIZE]
If someone claims to know a fact, always look at its source. If the arguer cannot validate or justify his own remarks, then they probably are not valid (and cannot be considered valid anyway until proven otherwise). The audience does not bear any responsibility to prove the speaker’s arguments.


This fallacy is also called an “appeal to ignorance” because the action of passing this responsibility onto the audience suggests that a group of unprepared non-experts is appearing qualified to speak, when they clearly are not.






This website gives a financial breakdown of ministries including the Billy Graham Evangelistic Association. The compensation for Billy Graham is listed at 159,545 for the year 2009.

Charity Navigator Rating - Billy Graham Evangelistic Association

Some others listed on the website .... Pat Robertson of CBN is 338,226. Charles Stanley is 119,155. Ken perez , President of John Stott ministries 12,703. The president of the American Bible society , R. Lamar Vest makes $409,113. Walk through the bible president , Philip Tuttle makes 152,681. John Bevere, president of his ministry makes 80,372 , but his wife Lisa Bevere, who is vice president make 138,595. Ed Silvoso makes $199,229. Reinhard Bonnke makes 145,323. Michael Youssef is not compensated by the ministry that he is the president of. Chuck Swindoll amkes only $59,560 , but his wife , Cynthia Swindoll , who is President and CEO of insight of living ministries makes 171,343. Jack Van Impe makes 125,823. His wife , Rexella Van Impe works with him in ministry and makes 77,954. Alexander D. Hill , President of InterVarsity Fellowship makes 159,707. Joni Eareckson Tada makes 129,736. Robert C. Sproul makes 173,618. Richard Roberts makes 250,093 as President of the Oral Roberts Evangelistic Association. Kay Arthur makes 93,414. Ravi Zacharias makes 142,196.

Food for the hungry President , Benjamin Homan makes 180,826. Feed my starving children Executive Director , Mark Crea makes 124,359.

Here is from the write up of Feed my starving children ministry.
Founded in 1987, Feed My Starving Children (FMSC) is a Christian organization committed to feeding God's starving children hungry in body and spirit. The approach is simple: children and adults alike hand-pack meals designed specially for starving children, and FMSC ships the meals to more than 70 countries around the world. In 2010 FMSC produced 124.3 million meals with 515,711 volunteers.

I hope that helps to put it into context. Over 100,000 seems to be the going rate for Ministers over large ministries.
 
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Tobias

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In 1988-ish I had a job working locally here, and one of our projects was wiring an enormous house that Chuck Swindoll was having built in Lake Arrowhead, CA. It was an extravagant monument to his wealth, with custom architecture and artwork hand painted on many of the walls.

All the workmen simply referred to the project as "God's Castle". I don't think anybody there respected the idea that a preacher could afford such luxury, nor did they care that the money supposedly came from the sale of his many books. Chuck and family had no intention of living there, it was just a vacation getaway in the mountains on the outside of the greater Los Angelos metropolitan sprawl.

Is it jealousy and envy that turn Men's hearts against God when they see such waste? Are we really expected to simply "be happy" that a preacher can make so much extra money off of the Gospel? Or are we right to say that the Ministry is not the place to get rich in this World's material wealth; and that if this is your goal, you should find other means of employment?

Simply because you are able, because people donate perhaps millions of dollars to your ministry's cause, does not entitle anyone to take more from the purse than what they need! (And if you have personal wealth, or are supplementing your income off of books and other means, please take this into account when setting your salary!)
 
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SpiritPsalmist

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Dig for them - it takes a little effort, but if you look, you will find them.

It is always best to find this type of information out for yourself, then you have no dispute with the sources. His salary is not easily found - I wonder why his ministry doesn't disclose it.

Good searching to you!


If one has to dig for "bad things about others" that means the one digging is not only in the dirt but part of it. Hmmmm. I'm sure we could find more than one person who would report some bad things about you even though they may not be true. Just because dirt can be found does not make it true.

Billy Graham has had a long life and a long marriage. All of his children are in ministry. God has blessed him. Those who don't like it need to take it up with God. Their just jealous 'cause God has not given them such things. The reason being 'cause they probably would only squander it. They say they would give it all to the poor, but if that were true they would not be wasting time digging in dirt for dirt on others.
 
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Simon Peter

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If one has to dig for "bad things about others" that means the one digging is not only in the dirt but part of it. Hmmmm. I'm sure we could find more than one person who would report some bad things about you even though they may not be true. Just because dirt can be found does not make it true.

Billy Graham has had a long life and a long marriage. All of his children are in ministry. God has blessed him. Those who don't like it need to take it up with God. Their just jealous 'cause God has not given them such things. The reason being 'cause they probably would only squander it. They say they would give it all to the poor, but if that were true they would not be wasting time digging in dirt for dirt on others.


Why would an inquiry of a public figures wealth be equated with digging up dirt?



It also begs the question, 'why is a minister's salary considered dirt?'

A person's salary is what it is. If someone considers that "dirt", then it seems like they also think the large salary sullies the minister!

If I was to publish a Franklin's Purse document, oops..I'm sorry, I mean a Samaritan's Purse document, that instead of showing Franklin Graham earning over half a million a year, it showed him only earning $5,000 a year, would SpiritsPsalmist still consider it dirt?


peace,
Simon
 
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Yitzchak

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It also begs the question, 'why is a minister's salary considered dirt?'

A person's salary is what it is. If someone considers that "dirt", then it seems like they also think the large salary sullies the minister!

If I was to publish a Franklin's Purse document, oops..I'm sorry, I mean a Samaritan's Purse document, that instead of showing Franklin Graham earning over half a million a year, it showed him only earning $5,000 a year, would SpiritsPsalmist still consider it dirt?


peace,
Simon

I don't know if it is dirt or not. But I presume the thinking that it might be dirt is based upon the premise that the purpose of a paid position for full time ministers is meant so that they do not have the distraction of secular employment. As opposed to being there for them to become wealthy off of it.
 
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Faulty

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What I'm more interested in is not really how much money they make as the main point, but what is it they are spending it on and how they obtained the money.

A minister always begging for money doesn't have his eyes on the Lord as their provider. If they really believed God owned the cattle on a thousand hills and will maintain a faithful ministry, then when they are in need, they would go to God alone to provide, rather than turning and begging/threatening the flock. It's just an examination of the fruit of their actions.

But if God is providing, does their lifestyle reflect their focus. Do they use their personal wealth with the focus of evangelizing the lost and feeding the sheep, inother words, laying up treasures in heaven, or is their focus on the finer possessions of houses, cars, land, gold, etc?

I would be far less inclined to give to a ministry where the head honcho makes $200k a year and uses it to pad his accounts and accumulate wealth, than I would be inclined to give to a ministry where the man makes a million a year, but lives modestly and uses his wealth to further the Kingdom.

One man has his mind set on earthly things, and the other on heavenly things, and if the man is heavenly-minded if his personal affairs, I know his ministry will also bear fruit in keeping with the same mindset.
 
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