The Deception of Evolution and the Fossil Sequence

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lifepsyop

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Oh, agreed! Take Darwin's beloved Finches. Beaks adapted for different food sources - but one and all Finches. This is why evolutionists never discuss dogs and cats, because we see right before our eyes the variation capable within the genome - all within the same Kind. Living, breathing examples that falsify evolution completely, that we ourselves brought about through breeding that might have taken hundreds of thousands of years otherwise. I am quite positive that if dogs and cats did not exist today - but only in the fossil record - they would classify every different breed as a separate species. Showing us how they fit into their evolutionary tree. Something they can't do as it stands because we know the lineages of cats and dogs and understand they are not separate species - but different breeds within the Canidae and Felidae Kind. Only in the past - where one can speculate or dream all one wants - do they ever become other than they are.

That goes without saying. If they were only going on the fossils, Evolutionists would undoubtedly interpret varied dog skulls as belonging to distinct species. They would view the different morphology as being the result of novel traits nature selected for, when in actuality it is only different expression patterns of genetic traits that already existed in all of the dogs to begin with. Evolutionists would make illustrations showing the "transition" of how one dog-form "evolved" into another and condemn those anti-science heretics who questioned it.

The finches are almost laughable in how non-evolutionary they turned out to be. There was another study on them published recently. They are simply going through cyclic changes, populations regularly separate and then regularly come back together again. The beak morphology is simply a variation in expression levels that were already present in all the finches to begin with. There is not even a shred of evidence that they are following an evolutionary trajectory away towards anything else. And THIS is supposed to be one of the evolutionists' iconic examples of their theory.
 
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Oncedeceived

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-_- unless you consider millions of years to be short, not a short amount of time. However, generation timeframes greatly influence how fast a species can evolve, hence why bacteria can quickly become immune to antibiotics (the equivalent of a population of humans developing a resistence to cynaide) within a decade or two: their generations are hours rather than years.

You do realize that it was once thought that the evolution of the whale had at least 1/2 a million years to evolve and Scientists claimed that it was right on in a time frame for the evolutionary changes exhibited in the progression of the whale. that was until a fossil was found that moved that time frame to around 5 million years. According to evolutionary changes and the population and the rate of mutations it is a very very short period of time.
 
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PsychoSarah

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You do realize that it was once thought that the evolution of the whale had at least 1/2 a million years to evolve and Scientists claimed that it was right on in a time frame for the evolutionary changes exhibited in the progression of the whale. that was until a fossil was found that moved that time frame to around 5 million years. According to evolutionary changes and the population and the rate of mutations it is a very very short period of time.
No, it varies depending on selection pressures and generation time. High selection pressures and short generation time will make evolution go faster, while low selection pressures and long generation times make it go slower.
 
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ViaCrucis

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If evidence showed that the sun went around the earth, then the theory of heliocentricity wouldn't work. But a hypothetical "what if" wherein the sun orbits the earth doesn't render heliocentricity false. The sun would actually have to circle the earth for heliocentricity to be false, and since it doesn't, then this thought game is silly.

-CryptoLutheran
 
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lifepsyop

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If evidence showed that the sun went around the earth, then the theory of heliocentricity wouldn't work. But a hypothetical "what if" wherein the sun orbits the earth doesn't render heliocentricity false. The sun would actually have to circle the earth for heliocentricity to be false, and since it doesn't, then this thought game is silly.

-CryptoLutheran

It's more than a "what if" exercise because the actual plastic ad-hoc nature of the evolutionary creation story is demonstrated. Evolution, in principle, makes very little prediction and has very little criteria concerning the nature of the fossil record. The developing theory simply accommodated the fossil pattern that was already present, as it could have accommodated countless other fossil patterns.
 
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HitchSlap

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Here I will expose one of the greatest illusions of the Evolutionary smoke-and-mirrors show. It is actually very simple when you stop to think about it. The problem is that we have mantras rammed into our heads for so long that we lose the ability to critically examine them.

First, to establish the Evolutionists' claim.

Niles Eldridge, American Museum of Natural History: "We have been looking at the fossil record as a general test of the notion that life has evolved: To falsify that general idea, we would have to show that forms of life we considered more advanced appear earlier than the simpler forms." (Monkey Business, p. 46,1982)

Steven M. Stanley, John Hopkins University: "There is an infinite variety of ways in which, since 1859, the general concept of evolution might have been demolished. Consider the fossil record - a little known resource in Darwin's day. The unequivocal discovery of a fossil population of horses in Precambrian rocks would disprove evolution. More generally, any topsy-turvy sequence of fossils would force us to rethink our theory, yet not a single one has come to light. As Darwin recognized, a single geographic inconsistency would have nearly the same power of destruction." (The New Evolutionary Timetable, 1981, p.171)

I'm assuming most evolutionists would agree with the above claims concerning the potential falsifiability of Evolution. We hear similar claims from evolutionists constantly... "We have the fossils. We win." They present the same story to the public, that Evolution is supposedly so well-confirmed because of its potential falsifiability... that "a single out of place fossil" would destroy the theory.

However this claim is really based on intellectual sleight-of-hand.

Let me explain. With Evolution, we're really talking about two different things.

1. A general Evolutionary belief
2. The modern theory of Evolution


As for #1, a cursory examination of history will reveal that a general Evolutionary worldview existed long before the modern "theory of Evolution" arising with Charles Darwin. Ancient Greek mystics believed in Evolution or universal common descent. Before Charles was even born, his grandfather, Erasmus Darwin (among others) wrote extensively on the belief that all of life had evolved from a common ancestor. Thus it is clear to see that a general belief in the metaphysics of Evolution and universal common descent existed prior to the advent of the "theory of Evolution".

It is important to separate the two within a historical context in order to expose the ad-hoc nature in which a "theory of Evolution" was formulated in response to the Evolutionary belief.


Now since we are talking about fossils, it is very important to note that a general fossil pattern was emerging *before* the advent of the modern theory of evolution. Early paleontologists were already recording a general pattern of small marine creatures/shelly fauna in the bottom most layers, followed by what was described as an "Age of Reptiles" in middle layers, and lastly the "higher" mammalian groups found in the upper layers. Again, this fossil pattern was established *before* the establishment of the "theory" of Evolution.

Now for a simple question. Why are evolutionists claiming that the fossil record is a "test" of their theory, when the theory itself was built around the already known fossil record?

This leads us to another question. What exactly does Evolution actually predict about the order in which animals will arise on Earth? When we see such and such animal with such and such anatomy, we are told that it arose through random variation and natural selection... in other words, the animals "evolved" that way mostly because of certain environmental conditions. Again, with that in mind, what does Evolution really predict concerning a potential sequence of fossils left in its wake?

FOR EXAMPLE:

Evolutionists make a big deal about 'higher' mammal fossils not appearing until Paleogene rock layers following the Cretaceous... Evolutionists assert that this is because the appropriate environmental or ecological niches selecting for mammalian anatomy did not appear until this time period.

OK. So what if the early paleontologists had discovered a pattern of mammal fossils appearing much "earlier" such as within Permian/Triassic layers, prior to or contemporaneous with the early appearances of reptiles and dinosaurs? We already know the answer. Evolutionists would have hypothesized that this is because ecological niches selected for mammalian anatomy at this time. Such an evolutionary order sounds bizarre to us today, but rest assured, a century of Evolutionary orthodoxy would have made a "Triassic Mammalian Radiation" sound as normal today as something like the "Cambrian Explosion".... Undoubtedly, an in-depth evolutionary narrative would have been written around such a pattern, limited only by the creative imagineering of what natural selection could do.

It's easy to imagine countless other examples similar to the above. Basically, as soon as you have a terrestrial vertebrate "common ancestor" all bets are off as to which orders will evolve in what sequence. Perhaps the "ecological niches" for dinosaurs would not manifest until long after the advanced mammals (even primates and humans) are walking the Earth. This would completely thrown the orthodox evolutionary narrative on its head, but interestingly Evolution has no established constraints to state such an order could not have potentially occurred.

Again, it's all a matter of which traits happen to be selected for at what times. A primitive diapsid (reptile) lineage could potentially remain in stasis for hundreds of millions of years, while therapsid/mammalian lineages rapidly diversify and evolve. The possibilities are endless. Hopefully you're starting to get the point. Evolution actually predicts very little in regards to a fossil order. Many different Common Ancestry stories could have been written to accommodate many different fossil orders.

Now what of the claim that such fossils would have to be constrained to a "nested hierarchy of anatomical traits" ? Here we run into a similar scenario of Evolution being able to accommodate too much contradictory data sets. For example, what if a pattern had emerged of bird fossils appearing before theropod dinosaurs? This one is fairly obvious. The evolutionary narrative would have adapted to say that birds evolved within some other possibly diapsid order, and Theropod dinosaurs subsequently evolved from birds. Perhaps then other dinosaurs may have evolved from Theropoda. In a similar reversing process, reptiles could be said to have evolved out of mammalian traits if reptiles did not appear until after mammals. (if the data forced such a conclusion) Mammals could potentially be viewed as quite a primitive terrestrial order. Remember, fossils DO NOT have to be in rock layer sequence for Evolutionists to claim them as a transitional sequence. They simply have to exhibit "transitional anatomy". This fact alone opens the door wide for ad-hoc evolutionary narratives.

(side note: You will find the same sense of malleability permeating throughout any other direction evolutionists would like to take their theory to make it appear more constrained to specific data. The idea of molecular clocks, for example, are highly prone to ad-hoc adjustments...)

So this is how the sleight-of-hand works. Evolution theory adapted itself to a known fossil record, and then its proponents later began to claim that the fossil record is actually some kind of rigorous test for the theory.

Now I'm not claiming that discovering certain fossil orders (like Cambrian mammals) wouldn't have posed more of an explanatory problem for Evolution. But in general, as I've demonstrated, an Evolutionary narrative could have potentially accommodated countless and substantially different fossil orders as they would emerge in earlier centuries. If you understand the underlying logical structure of Evolution theory, then this becomes readily apparent. Evolution is like a fog that settles over the landscape of data.

At best evolutionists can say that the fossil order that was known before Evolution theory, continued to hold to its original pattern. Yet clearly Evolution theory could have potentially run with any number of different patterns.

Basically, Evolution was destined to become the world's orthodox creation story as soon as enough academics and other social forces began subscribing to it philosophically. Like a jello mold, the emerging theory would naturally arrange itself into whatever data constraints came its way, strung along by the tautology of natural selection - or "That which survives, survives."

So even though the logic of such claims is highly illusory, we will continue to hear for generations to come that the fossil record is some amazing "test of Evolution". The Evolutionists' mantra is a lot easier to say than the time it takes to deconstruct and expose it.

...And at the end of the day, most people do not give a hoot about "science" anyways. They need Evolution to be true in order to continue the cultural story of man's "Enlightenment", and to continue to live in their sins and ignore the true God of the Bible and the salvation by Jesus Christ. Thus the world will continue to defend the illusion of Evolution and condemn any who question it.

My hope is that at least some readers on the fence, (especially professing Christians), may start to wonder if the supposedly scientifically ironclad nature of Evolution theory is not what it appears to be. Underneath all of the jargon and bull-horning, there is a lot of this type of thing going on.

Universal common descent did not happen. God was very clear about this in His Word.
Ha! Defeated by wall of text.
 
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nonbeliever314

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Here is another great example of people trying so hard to keep their faith alive, it's a religious death rattle. From trying to disprove evolution, denying climate change because a god is the only one that has the power to destroy the planet, to caring way, way too much about homosexuals, trying to bring about the end of times in Dabiq (ISIS). It's all a religious death rattle, you can only hang on for so long before you have to just let go. I let go a long, long time ago. And with a death rattle, death follows, the death of ancient beliefs and superstitions.
 
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AV1611VET

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I let go a long, long time ago.

Of what?

You didn't say.

If it was Christianity, are you saying you once:
  1. were enlightened
  2. tasted of the heavenly gift
  3. made a partaker of the Holy Ghost
  4. tasted the good word of God
  5. tasted the powers of the world to come
... and gave it all up for something else?

Hebrews 6:4 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,
Hebrews 6:5 And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,
 
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nonbeliever314

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Of what?

You didn't say.

If it was Christianity, are you saying you once:
  1. were enlightened
  2. tasted of the heavenly gift
  3. made a partaker of the Holy Ghost
  4. tasted the good word of God
  5. tasted the powers of the world to come
... and gave it all up for something else?

Hebrews 6:4 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,
Hebrews 6:5 And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,

When I was young I believed in god (Christian god), and then through critical thinking it all disintegrated. By about 13 or 14 years old I realized how inconsistent, ridiculous and cruel it all was. And now I just watch the cruelty, and bigotry done by the ones who still believe it and shake my head.
 
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Atheos canadensis

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It's more than a "what if" exercise because the actual plastic ad-hoc nature of the evolutionary creation story is demonstrated.

But it really isn't more than a "what if" excercise. Your entire post was a series of scenarios you concocted and your assumptions about how scientists would react. You haven't demonstrated anything, you've just produced a wall of text in which you assert without any supporting examples what you think would happen in various hypothetical scenarios.

If you could provide some examples of scientists coming up with one lineage and then with equal facility coming up with the exact opposite of that lineage, then you would have demonstrated your point. Currently you've just rehashed your old argument that evolutionary theory would just accommodate anything.

I challenge you to provide any actual evidence for your hypotheticals.
 
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Justatruthseeker

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That goes without saying. If they were only going on the fossils, Evolutionists would undoubtedly interpret varied dog skulls as belonging to distinct species. They would view the different morphology as being the result of novel traits nature selected for, when in actuality it is only different expression patterns of genetic traits that already existed in all of the dogs to begin with. Evolutionists would make illustrations showing the "transition" of how one dog-form "evolved" into another and condemn those anti-science heretics who questioned it.

The finches are almost laughable in how non-evolutionary they turned out to be. There was another study on them published recently. They are simply going through cyclic changes, populations regularly separate and then regularly come back together again. The beak morphology is simply a variation in expression levels that were already present in all the finches to begin with. There is not even a shred of evidence that they are following an evolutionary trajectory away towards anything else. And THIS is supposed to be one of the evolutionists' iconic examples of their theory.

That's the rub - everything we see around us and every fossil in the fossil record is exactly the same with bu the minor variation capable within the genome. Mutations occur by transcription errors - re-writing what already exists into a different combination than before - it NEVER writes a new genome from what does not exist. The biggest fraud perpetuated is telling people that life went from simple to more complex - when the only thing we know from genetics is rearrangement of what already exists or loss of what existed, or in a gene becoming dominant or recessive. There has never been even the slightest hint of a new genome being capable of being formed where none existed previously.
 
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Justatruthseeker

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-_- unless you consider millions of years to be short, not a short amount of time. However, generation timeframes greatly influence how fast a species can evolve, hence why bacteria can quickly become immune to antibiotics (the equivalent of a population of humans developing a resistence to cynaide) within a decade or two: their generations are hours rather than years.

So we can then assume that E coli after billions of generations and billions of mutations never evolve into another species and falsify the theory - since after all these billions of mutations and generations - they are still E coli.
 
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BrotherKev

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Guy, the fossil record is evidence of evolution. If the fossil record was different then the theory would be different. If there was a fossil record that was inconsistent with common descent then there would be no theory of common descent.
I could try to explain it, but I'd rather let an authority. Try this link;

Respectfully,
Kev
 
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Justatruthseeker

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If evidence showed that the sun went around the earth, then the theory of heliocentricity wouldn't work. But a hypothetical "what if" wherein the sun orbits the earth doesn't render heliocentricity false. The sun would actually have to circle the earth for heliocentricity to be false, and since it doesn't, then this thought game is silly.

-CryptoLutheran

Except evolutionists are trying to insist something the evidence does not show. Basically they are asserting (in your analogy) that the sun revolves around the earth - despite the evidence the earth revolves around the sun.

They are asserting one creatures mutates into another - despite every single fossil ever found - from the oldest fossil of that species to the youngest fossil of that species - are one and the same.
 
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Justatruthseeker

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Here is another great example of people trying so hard to keep their faith alive, it's a religious death rattle. From trying to disprove evolution, denying climate change because a god is the only one that has the power to destroy the planet, to caring way, way too much about homosexuals, trying to bring about the end of times in Dabiq (ISIS). It's all a religious death rattle, you can only hang on for so long before you have to just let go. I let go a long, long time ago. And with a death rattle, death follows, the death of ancient beliefs and superstitions.

No, let's get the facts straight. I deny climate change being man-made - since every single planet in the solar system also underwent climate change during this time frame. But as long as you continue to ignore 99% of the evidence - you will always come to the wrong conclusions.

The winds of Venus increased:

http://www.esa.int/Our_Activities/S...ss/The_fast_winds_of_Venus_are_getting_faster

Mars heated up:

http://www.nasa.gov/centers/ames/research/2007/marswarming.html

Jupiter lost a stripe:

http://science.nasa.gov/science-news/science-at-nasa/2010/20may_loststripe/

And gained a spot:

http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2008/05/080523-jupiter-spot-photo.html

And Saturn erupted with a huge storm heat spike:

http://news.nationalgeographic.com/...turn-space-storm-burp-vortex-science-cassini/

So again, as long as we ignore the rest of the solar system, then and only then can we blame a natural occurrence on man.
 
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nonbeliever314

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No, let's get the facts straight. I deny climate change being man-made - since every single planet in the solar system also underwent climate change during this time frame. But as long as you continue to ignore 99% of the evidence - you will always come to the wrong conclusions.

The winds of Venus increased:

http://www.esa.int/Our_Activities/S...ss/The_fast_winds_of_Venus_are_getting_faster

Mars heated up:

http://www.nasa.gov/centers/ames/research/2007/marswarming.html

Jupiter lost a stripe:

http://science.nasa.gov/science-news/science-at-nasa/2010/20may_loststripe/

And gained a spot:

http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2008/05/080523-jupiter-spot-photo.html

And Saturn erupted with a huge storm heat spike:

http://news.nationalgeographic.com/...turn-space-storm-burp-vortex-science-cassini/

So again, as long as we ignore the rest of the solar system, then and only then can we blame a natural occurrence on man.

What type of c02 has increased significantly on Earth since the industrial revolution? And when you find that answer, where does that c02 come from?

PS. All planets undergo climate change, could have a positive or negative impact, so what? If a planet that I live on is undergoing a significant climate change, that will negatively impact life on Earth, I'm concerned.
 
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Oncedeceived

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When I was young I believed in god (Christian god), and then through critical thinking it all disintegrated. By about 13 or 14 years old I realized how inconsistent, ridiculous and cruel it all was. And now I just watch the cruelty, and bigotry done by the ones who still believe it and shake my head.


You made a reasoned and logical conclusion that affects the rest of your eternity at 13 or 14? If I still believed what I believed when I was 13 or 14 I would cringe at what I might be like today.
 
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