The Catholic Church

Saucy

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Now I will turn the tables, if you will, Saucy.

Why do you believe the Bible alone?
Yes feel free to ask me any question about my faith :)

When I first became a Christian, I was taught that the bible is God's word. God determined the books He wanted to share in His word. So there are a lot of doctrines taught by the Catholic church I do not see in the bible. I do not understand why some doctrines are accepted. Some even contradict the bible.

And the reason why I say that, is you can't find me a single instance where Mary was lifted up. Not by Jesus or any the disciples. There was no moment where they prayed to her, called her Holy, said she was a mediator...anything. So if she was so special, why didn't Christ mention anything? Or the disciples?

I've said all that before. Why would some random person get a revelation hundreds of years later? It doesn't sound right. Some people even say it was the the figment of someone's 'sanctified imagination'. Really? How do you know their imagination was sanctified? Or someone's dream was from God?

So the bible is the standard. Christ told us how to pray, how to gain salvation and taught us the important things we needed to know. Everything the Catholic church seems to teach is outside of His own teachings. Why didn't Jesus specifically mention to pray through Mary? Why didn't He all His mom holy?

So it boils down to the fact that I don't trust that someone has a dream or imagines something up, that it was from God and should be trusted when it doesn't fit with the bible. If God really wanted us to know that, He would have put it in His word.
 
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Rhamiel

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It implicates the priest class as being tricksters - fooling the people for gain.

true
but the Eastern Orthodox and the Roman Catholics actually have priests, and we both kept this part of Daniel in the Bible
while Anglicans and Lutherans have it not as scripture but listed as "useful reading" or a second class scripture or something like that

and those Christian traditions that do not have priests at all do not even use this story.

so it is kind of the opposite of what you would expect
with the least liturgical using it the least and the most liturgical using it the most
 
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Saucy

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Also, to expand on my previous comment, I really think a lot of protestant churches, including my own, try to go back to the basics of an Acts 2 church. It was very simple and (I believe) very different from what you would see in a modern Catholic mass. All of the sacraments and such were added on over the last 2,000 years.
 
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Rhamiel

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Also, to expand on my previous comment, I really think a lot of protestant churches, including my own, try to go back to the basics of an Acts 2 church. It was very simple and (I believe) very different from what you would see in a modern Catholic mass. All of the sacraments and such were added on over the last 2,000 years.


well all 7 Sacraments are Biblical, and from history we can see them not only in the Bible but in the histories of the Early Church
as for being different then what you see in a Catholic Mass, we have prayers, readings from the Prophets of the Old Testament, the Gospels and the Epistles, a sermon teaching the Christian faith and the blessing of bread and wine

Baptism

John 3:5
Jesus answered, "Very truly I tell you, no one can enter the kingdom of God unless they are born of water and the Spirit.

Acts 8:36
As they traveled along the road, they came to some water and the eunuch said, "Look, here is water. What can stand in the way of my being baptized?"

Confirmation of the Holy Spirit
Acts 8:14-17
14When the apostles in Jerusalem heard that Samaria had accepted the word of God, they sent Peter and John to Samaria. 15When they arrived, they prayed for the new believers there that they might receive the Holy Spirit, 16because the Holy Spirit had not yet come on any of them; they had simply been baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. 17Then Peter and John placed their hands on them, and they received the Holy Spirit.

Hebrews 6:1-3
1Therefore let us move beyond the elementary teachings about Christ and be taken forward to maturity, not laying again the foundation of repentance from acts that lead to death, and of faith in God, 2instruction about cleansing rites, the laying on of hands, the resurrection of the dead, and eternal judgment. 3And God permitting, we will do so.

Acts 19:6
When Paul placed his hands on them, the Holy Spirit came on them, and they spoke in tongues and prophesied.

Reconciliation

John 20:21-23
21Again Jesus said, “Peace be with you! As the Father has sent me, I am sending you.” 22And with that he breathed on them and said, “Receive the Holy Spirit. 23If you forgive anyone’s sins, their sins are forgiven; if you do not forgive them, they are not forgiven.”

James 5:6
Therefore confess your sins to each other and pray for each other so that you may be healed. The prayer of a righteous person is powerful and effective.

Eucharist

John 6:48-58
48 I am the bread of life. 49 Your ancestors ate the manna in the wilderness, yet they died. 50 But here is the bread that comes down from heaven, which anyone may eat and not die. 51 I am the living bread that came down from heaven. Whoever eats this bread will live forever. This bread is my flesh, which I will give for the life of the world.”
52 Then the Jews began to argue sharply among themselves, “How can this man give us his flesh to eat?”
53 Jesus said to them, “Very truly I tell you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you have no life in you. 54 Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise them up at the last day. 55 For my flesh is real food and my blood is real drink. 56 Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood remains in me, and I in them. 57 Just as the living Father sent me and I live because of the Father, so the one who feeds on me will live because of me. 58 This is the bread that came down from heaven. Your ancestors ate manna and died, but whoever feeds on this bread will live forever.”

Luke 24:35
35 Then the two told what had happened on the way, and how Jesus was recognized by them when he broke the bread.

Acts 2:42
42 They devoted themselves to the apostles’ teaching and to fellowship, to the breaking of bread and to prayer.

1 Corinthians 11:27-30
27 So then, whoever eats the bread or drinks the cup of the Lord in an unworthy manner will be guilty of sinning against the body and blood of the Lord. 28 Everyone ought to examine themselves before they eat of the bread and drink from the cup. 29 For those who eat and drink without discerning the body of Christ eat and drink judgment on themselves. 30 That is why many among you are weak and sick, and a number of you have fallen asleep.

Matrimony
Matthew 19:4-6
4 “Haven’t you read,” he replied, “that at the beginning the Creator ‘made them male and female,’ 5 and said, ‘For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and the two will become one flesh’? 6 So they are no longer two, but one flesh. Therefore what God has joined together, let no one separate.”

Holy Orders
Acts 13:2-3
2 While they were worshiping the Lord and fasting, the Holy Spirit said, “Set apart for me Barnabas and Saul for the work to which I have called them.” 3 So after they had fasted and prayed, they placed their hands on them and sent them off.

Anointing of the sick

James 5:14
"Is any among you sick? Let him call for the presbyters of the Church, and let them pray over him, anointing him with oil in the name of the Lord; and the prayer of faith will save the sick man, and the Lord will raise him up; and if he has committed sins, he will be forgiven."
 
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AztecSDSU

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Also, to expand on my previous comment, I really think a lot of protestant churches, including my own, try to go back to the basics of an Acts 2 church. It was very simple and (I believe) very different from what you would see in a modern Catholic mass. All of the sacraments and such were added on over the last 2,000 years.

Actually, Jewish worship is liturgical. Evangelical protestant worship is not, and as most early Christians were Jews it's beyond unlikely they'd have abandoned liturgical worship for sermon driven meetings. In fact you wouldn't have seen any sort of non-liturgical Christian worship for almost 1,600 years after Christ. So yeah, your church is nothing like the early Christian communities.
 
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AztecSDSU

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Yes feel free to ask me any question about my faith :)

When I first became a Christian, I was taught that the bible is God's word. God determined the books He wanted to share in His word. So there are a lot of doctrines taught by the Catholic church I do not see in the bible. I do not understand why some doctrines are accepted. Some even contradict the bible.

You do realize that the Christian canon didn't just appear out of thin air, right? It was actually a pretty long process, and a lot of books that were regionally popular as Scripture didn't make it into the canon. Others were a result of compromise. The eastern churches by in large were opposed to The Revelation of St. John being included, but the western churches didn't want the Epistle to the Hebrews in the canon, so as a compromise both books were included. Could just as easily have gone the other way, or ended with one included and the other struck.

So why on earth would you accept a canon of Scripture that was created by the same process that validated teachings you are calling non-Biblical?
 
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Rhamiel

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Rhamiel

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I have noticed that the Catholic Church and Her teachings have been coming up more and more frequently in conversation, I have seen a few misunderstandings and oversimplifications and instead of correcting them all one at a time it would probably just be better to make a new thread where such issues can be addressed.

bump
 
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