The Case for A Creator: Review of Strobel's Book

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chaoschristian

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I promised pastorkevin in another thread that if I ever got the chance to read Lee Strobel's "The Case for a Creator" that I would give it a serious effort. Well, it turns out my wife ordered it from her Christian book club and it arrived in the mail today (she's an OEC if you were curious - see we can all get along;) )

Well, I said I was going to be serious about this, and I am. Starting today I am going to review each chapter of the book and post the reviews in my blog. Then I'll use this thread to open a discussion on the book. That way everyone can have the opportunity to share their opinion.

Hopefully this will prove to be of some value. If not, then the economy of the forum will show a lack of ROI and I'll stop.
 

chaoschristian

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I have a confession to make. I really, really wanted to do a chapter by chapter review of Strobel's book. I am not up to the task. I've read the entire book this evening (despite Battlestar Galactica being on) and I can't bring myself to spend the time to do a chapter by chapter analysis when it really isn't necessary.

I will give this to Strobel: he writes well. He has a smooth, popular, conversational style. His interviews remind me of the dialogues in other works like Dante's Inferno, Galileo's Dialogue, and the Book of Job. His rhetorical slight of hand is masteful and I can see why for some this would be a compelling book.

That said, he turned me off in Chapter 2 where he quickly asserts that its impossible to be a Christian and accept evolutionary theory. I paid this guy money to hit me with the Bible Hammer?

As for the rest: he's created a strawman so big that Godzilla would have to rise out of the sea in order to do battle with it*.

Sorry folks. I had grand plans, and envisioned a fun project that would take a number of days. The book isn't worth it.


*plagarized from another poster who will remain nameless from another BBS that will remain unidentified. It was just too good a line not to use.
 
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FreezBee

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chaoschristian said:
I have a confession to make. I really, really wanted to do a chapter by chapter review of Strobel's book. I am not up to the task. I've read the entire book this evening (despite Battlestar Galactica being on) and I can't bring myself to spend the time to do a chapter by chapter analysis when it really isn't necessary.

Battlestar Galactica :confused: It's a millenium ago that I wathched that - is it really still cruising around?

chaoschristian said:
That said, he turned me off in Chapter 2 where he quickly asserts that its impossible to be a Christian and accept evolutionary theory. I paid this guy money to hit me with the Bible Hammer?

You might be in for a few apologetic issues, if you were a fundamentalist, literalist Christian and wanted to pass as an evolutionist as well. But outside of that dilemma, what has Lee Strobel to offer as evidence for the inpossibility of being a Christian and at the same time accepting the ToE?

chaoschristian said:
As for the rest: he's created a strawman so big that Godzilla would have to rise out of the sea in order to do battle with it.
:D Well, the certified way to deal with strawmen is to try to put them on fire. If they really are strawmen, they'll burn down quickly, and if they don't burn down quickly, you've put a real person on fire - but that's an entirely different problem :)

- FreezBee
 
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HypnoToad

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That said, he turned me off in Chapter 2 where he quickly asserts that its impossible to be a Christian and accept evolutionary theory. I paid this guy money to hit me with the Bible Hammer?

You might be in for a few apologetic issues, if you were a fundamentalist, literalist Christian and wanted to pass as an evolutionist as well. But outside of that dilemma, what has Lee Strobel to offer as evidence for the inpossibility of being a Christian and at the same time accepting the ToE?

I read the book last year (don't remember all the details of it), but I looked through the 2nd chapter, and I think you may be confusing what Strobel is saying.

From what I could see in chapter 2, Strobel is NOT addressing theistic evolution, but only classical evolution or Darwinism - which states that evolution is blind and has no purpose. If a Christian takes the view of theistic evolution, suddenly it is no longer blind and no longer without purpose, which is different than the strict evolutionary theory.

If I am remembering correctly, Strobel is trying to show there's a Creator. Given that, he doesn't need to refute theistic evolution. If you believe in theistic evolution, then you already believe there's a Creator (who just happened to create through an evolutionary process).

So, Strobel doesn't say Christians can't be theistic evolutionists, but just not the strict/classical/Darwinist type of evolutionist.

(Now, Chaoschristian, if you can show me if/where Strobel does specifically go into theistic evolution, then your point may still work. Like I said, I don't remember all the details, so I could very well be wrong on what Strobel is saying.)
 
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gluadys

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XianJedi said:
If I am remembering correctly, Strobel is trying to show there's a Creator. Given that, he doesn't need to refute theistic evolution. If you believe in theistic evolution, then you already believe there's a Creator (who just happened to create through an evolutionary process).

So, Strobel doesn't say Christians can't be theistic evolutionists, but just not the strict/classical/Darwinist type of evolutionist.

Problem is there is only one scientific theory of evolution. It is not identical to Darwin's theory, but it is a revision of Darwin's theory that takes more evidence into account--especially genetic evidence.

And it is this revision of Darwin's theory, called neo-Darwinism or the modern synthesis that is accepted by all evolutionists including theistic evolutionists.

So if this is the theory of evolution Strobel is refuting (sorry I haven't read the book) then he is refuting theistic evolution as well.

Why would he bother refuting the 19th century version of the theory of evolution when that is not what evolutionists, atheistic or theistic, subscribe to today? That would be a waste of time.
 
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chaoschristian

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Gluadys got it and she didn't even read the book. Strobel and his accecories spend most of their time refuting Darwin's original work, and even manage to devote an entire section to "The Descent of Man" to show how repugnantly racist evolutionary theory is (Opens door and tips hat for John Crawford).:eek:

Strobel spent 232 pages on refuting something, but it wasn't the theory of evolution.

Once I recover from my shock at this schlock, I'll go into more detail and back up my claims. Rigth now I'm not interested.
 
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chaoschristian

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FreezBee said:
Battlestar Galactica :confused: It's a millenium ago that I wathched that - is it really still cruising around?

Quick little tangent: check out the Science Fiction & Fantasy forum in the Hobbies section. There is a line there devoted to neo-SBG fans. And if you didn't know, the Sci-Fi channel started production on a re-visioned series that started with a mini-series in 2003. We are now in the 2nd season and going strong! There is a theology discussion in there somewhere though, because the humans are portrayed as pagans and the Cylons as monotheists so devoted to their God they are on a genocidal quest to remove the impure humans from His sight.

Back on topic: yes, I will devote the time to setting the torch to Strobel's strawmen here. I'm just boggled at the moment that's all.
 
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Donkeytron

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chaoschristian said:
Quick little tangent: check out the Science Fiction & Fantasy forum in the Hobbies section. There is a line there devoted to neo-SBG fans. And if you didn't know, the Sci-Fi channel started production on a re-visioned series that started with a mini-series in 2003. We are now in the 2nd season and going strong! There is a theology discussion in there somewhere though, because the humans are portrayed as pagans and the Cylons as monotheists so devoted to their God they are on a genocidal quest to remove the impure humans from His sight.

Back on topic: yes, I will devote the time to setting the torch to Strobel's strawmen here. I'm just boggled at the moment that's all.

Also off topic: this week's episode was [insert banned word here]-ing awesome. And I never thought I'd say that about something on the sci-fi channel.
 
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D

disciple777

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chaoschristian said:
I have a confession to make. I really, really wanted to do a chapter by chapter review of Strobel's book. I am not up to the task. I've read the entire book this evening (despite Battlestar Galactica being on) and I can't bring myself to spend the time to do a chapter by chapter analysis when it really isn't necessary.

I will give this to Strobel: he writes well. He has a smooth, popular, conversational style. His interviews remind me of the dialogues in other works like Dante's Inferno, Galileo's Dialogue, and the Book of Job. His rhetorical slight of hand is masteful and I can see why for some this would be a compelling book.

That said, he turned me off in Chapter 2 where he quickly asserts that its impossible to be a Christian and accept evolutionary theory. I paid this guy money to hit me with the Bible Hammer?

As for the rest: he's created a strawman so big that Godzilla would have to rise out of the sea in order to do battle with it*.

Sorry folks. I had grand plans, and envisioned a fun project that would take a number of days. The book isn't worth it.


*plagarized from another poster who will remain nameless from another BBS that will remain unidentified. It was just too good a line not to use.

I feel sorry for you. As you have spent money on this book, I strongly urge you to read the book completely and then analyse all the information and then please post your thoughts.My request to you will be that you will read the book with an open mind to find the facts that he is offering. It seems you have prejudged the author even without reading the book. After you read this with an open mind, then you will make an unbiassed and informed opinion. This is important for all of us. Please read my post on another thread ( Can a Christian believe is Evolution?)

I am a former Evolutionist and an Atheist.
 
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chaoschristian

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OK, as promised, here's a chapter by chapter account of the strawman/PRATTS/fallacies/misconceptions in Strobel's "The Case for a Creator" Now, I'm not going to bother to refute these things, because its all been done before, here and elsewhere. But if someone wants to bring up a point, have at it.

Let's look at Chapter 2*, shall we?

After a brief walk down memory lane, Strobel exposes the reader to what he calles the 'Images of Evolutions" He will use these images to characterize the theory of evolution throughout the book.

Image #1: The Stanley Miller Experiment: this is a mischaracterization of the theory of evolution. First swing at plate and Strobel misses. He immediately asserts that abiogenesis is part and parcel with evolution. Its not, nuff said.

Image #2: Darwin's Tree of Life: Strobel makes another mischaracterization here by taking the opportunity to artificially split 'micro' evolution from 'macro' evolution. Secondly he focuses and stayes focused on Darwin's original conceptualization. The reader discovers that he never moves beyond this, and never recognizes the changes the theory has undergone over more than a century of scrutiny and development

Image #3: Ernst Haeckel's Drawing of Embryos: honestly before Strobel mentioned them, I had never seen reference to these before. See this Linky to see the refutation. Basically Strobel is perpetuating the myth that this has anything to do with modern evolutionary theory.

Image #4: The Missing Link: I'll hold off on this until Strobel gets back to it later. It is interesting, though, that Strobel takes this opportunity to link, once again, evolution to atheism.

Now, the great big Bible Hammer on pages 21-24. Here Strobel basically pre-empts any notion that a Christian can accept evolution by characterizing the two as incompatible. I'll provide this quote from William Provine as used by Strobel on page 22, "A widespread theological view now exists saying that God started off the world, props it up and works through laws of nature, very subtly that its action is undetectable. But that kind of God is effectively no different to my mind than atheism." He goes on with further quotes that cast 'Darwinism' as having the intent to refute God. Strobel does this alot throughout the book, confuse the science of evolution with the possible philosophical/political/theological ramifications of evolution without ever acknowledging that the science is science, but that what one makes of it is a personal interpretation.

Finally he concludes Chapter 2 by declaring that he will search for 'the truth' by consulting "authorities in various scientific disciplines about the most current findings in their fields." But then he moves on to say that he will pick experts "who refuse to limit themselves only to the politicallyh correct world of naturalism or materialism. After all, it wouldn't make sense to rule out any hypothesis at the outset. I wanted the freedom to pursue all possibilities."

In otherwords, he's stacking the deck with expert witnesses who hold his own presuppositions and who define science so broadly that it would be impossible to exclude that which would not conform to emperical science. This becomes really evident once one sees who he has called upon as his experts.

Chapter 3 tomorrow.

*I'm skipping over Chapter 1 right now in order to get to the strawmen as quickly as possible. But I'll come back around to that in the end.
 
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