The Angel of God is....God.

[1whirlwind]

Because if you knew the difference then you would also understand what it is I am saying.

Luke 10:22
All things are delivered to me of my Father: and no man knoweth who the Son is, but the Father; and who the Father is, but the Son, and he to whom the Son will reveal him.

This is only made possible by the revelation of Jesus Christ in the man.

If there was a "Son of God," before the Advent of the "Son of God," then the "Son of God," would have been mentioned before He was born of woman, before the Word was made flesh and became "The Son of God" AND "The Son of Man."

The flesh birth of the Son had to take place before He was "the Son," of "the Father."

So, I understand what you are saying Spirit but I also understand that your understanding is...wrong. I know who the Son is for He and the Father are One and....He revealed Him to me and others.



.

 

[InSpiritInTruth]

If there was a "Son of God," before the Advent of the "Son of God," then the "Son of God," would have been mentioned before He was born of woman, before the Word was made flesh and became "The Son of God" AND "The Son of Man."

The flesh birth of the Son had to take place before He was "the Son," of "the Father."

So, I understand what you are saying Spirit but I also understand that your understanding is...wrong. I know who the Son is for He and the Father are One and....He revealed Him to me and others.



.

Then why is it that you do not understand my speech?
David said by the Spirit that the Lord said unto my Lord sit thou at my right hand until I make thine enemies thy footstool. If David called the Son of God Lord, then how is Christ Davids son?

You are the one who is in error because the Son of God was with the Father in the very beginning, by whom also the worlds were made, as I showed you in Hebrews 1:2; but you reject the Truth.

Also Christ did not come out of woman as you say, just as Christ also confessed that He came out from God. Neither was Christ born of this world, but came down from above. This I also speak by the Spirit of Truth that dwells in me, which I also received by the revelation of Jesus Christ.

If you don't believe me, then you don't believe in Jesus' testimony either.

John 8:23
And he said unto them, Ye are from beneath; I am from above: ye are of this world; I am not of this world.

 

[jpcedotal]

This is a tough subject for me...

An angel of God has always been a messenger, not God Himself. Also, Jesus states that no one has seen the Father. Moses is probably the one who got the closest, but even he did not see Him. The places in the Word where different people of God state they saw the angel of God did not actually see God...but they did see something, a physical, visible presence. To me, Christ clearly states that these "angels" were not God Himself...they must have simply been real, actual angels sent as messengers from God to give a focal point to man to see as divine instruction was given.

Now, I have also heard it said that some or most or even all these angels were actually Christ himself like the instance in the Garden God walking with Adam and Eve. I am not sure I can buy this stance either. I understand there is a group of Christians who do not want to put too much emphasis on angels so that the glory belonging to God is not diminished (and it shouldn't be) or even that angels themselves will not be worshiped (which is ridiculous since the Word puts angels BELOW man), but I do not think just completely eliminating angels from the context is Biblical either.

 

[1whirlwind]

Jesus Christ (The WORD) has ALWAYS been the SON OF GOD even before the world began. There was NEVER a time that the Son was not the Son.

I have brought you glory on earth by finishing the work you gave me to do. And now, Father, glorify me in your presence with the glory I had with you before the world began. John 17:4-5

No LionKing, there has never been a time when the Word was not God for "The Word WAS God." The Word was not "the Son" until He was born of woman.

The Word was with God before the world began for the "Word WAS God," but until the "Word was made flesh," there was no Son.

So do not be ashamed of the testimony about our Lord or of me his prisoner. Rather, join with me in suffering for the gospel, by the power of God. He has saved us and called us to a holy life—not because of anything we have done but because of his own purpose and grace. This grace was given us in Christ Jesus before the beginning of time, but it has now been revealed through the appearing of our Savior, Christ Jesus, who has destroyed death and has brought life and immortality to light through the gospel. And of this gospel I was appointed a herald and an apostle and a teacher. 2 Timothy 1:8-11

"This grace was given us in Christ Jesus before the beginning of time, but it has now been revealed through the appearing of our Savior, Christ Jesus."
​

Is that saying that Christ Jesus was before the beginning of time or....this grace of being saved that is given us was always the plan? It is the grace that is revealed through His appearing as our Saviour that was "before the beginning of time."

There is One True God....the Word WAS God....The Word was made flesh and then...we have the Son of God and Son of Man. Then we have Father and Son...two roles for one God.

Again, do you understand that there is a DIFFERENCE between the words "only begotten" and "begotten"?

Again....

"Sorry...I don't see it saying He was "begotten" before He was born of woman. Before that He was God for He was the Word made flesh and the "Word Was God."

The difference you're trying to point out is sort of a you say tomato and I say tomato. He "brought forth, gave birth to, a unique" entity....Jesus, the Only Begotten Son of God. Simple. Nothing at all about being "begotten before the world was formed."
​

That is the point of all this LionKing...not some tiny difference in the meaning of begotten.

As I have already pointed out to you in my previous post, The WORD (Jesus Christ) was the "only begotten" Son of God, and has always existed with God. Everything was formed by the Father through His Son, Jesus Christ. The word "only begotten" does not have anything to do with Christ's birth/resurrection, but simply means that Christ is the unique SON OF GOD in relation to the many sons of God (angels, adopted children).

The Word became Jesus Christ when the "Word was made flesh and dwelt among us." Until then He was not the "only begotten Son of God." The WORD WAS GOD." Not the Word was the Son of God but the Word was God.

Jesus Christ was called the ONLY BEGOTTEN SON OF GOD, even before He was begotten.

That calls for a Scriptural quote...does it not?

Of course, we are not the "only begotten son of God", Jesus Christ is! Christ is the one and only (unique) Son of God.

He is also the only One that IS GOD.

Isaac is the only begotten son of Abraham, just as Christ is the only begotten Son of God.

And he said, Take now your son, your only son Isaac, whom you love, and get you into the land of Moriah; and offer him there for a burnt offering upon one of the mountains which I will tell you of. Genesis 22:2

God called Isaac "the one and only son" of Abraham even though Abraham had other sons. Do you understand what the LORD meant by that?

Yes, Isaac was the "one and only son" of Abraham to whom the promises were made. Isaac was the unique son of a man. Jesus is the unique Son of God. We are sons of God but we are NOT the "only begotten Son of God."

Isaac was a TYPE of Christ:

Isaac was the one and only son of promise (Genesis 22:2)
Jesus Christ is the one and only Son of God promised to the world (John 3:16)

Isaac was to be sacrificed in Moriah (Genesis 22:2)
Jesus Christ was sacrificed in Jerusalem (2 Chron. 3:1) (The temple in Jerusalem was built on Mount Moriah)

Isaac was considered dead by father for three days (Genesis 22:4)
Jesus Christ was dead for three days (1 Cor. 15:3-4)

Isaac carried wood for his own sacrifice (Genesis 22:6)
Jesus Christ carried His own cross (John 19:17-18)

Isaac submitted willingly to his Father (Genesis 22:6-8)
Jesus Christ submitted willingly to Father (Matt. 26:39)

Isaac was raised from altar, his life spared by the power of God (Genesis 22:11-12)
Jesus Christ was raised from the dead by the power of God (Rom. 6:4)

Those are wonderful comparisons! Well done.

Thanks.

You are most welcome.



.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Originally Posted by Lion King Jesus Christ (The WORD) has ALWAYS been the SON OF GOD even before the world began. There was NEVER a time that the Son was not the Son.

I have brought you glory on earth by finishing the work you gave me to do. And now, Father, glorify me in your presence with the glory I had with you before the world began. John 17:4-5

No LionKing, there has never been a time when the Word was not God for "The Word WAS God." The Word was not "the Son" until He was born of woman.

The Word was with God before the world began for the "Word WAS God," but until the "Word was made flesh," there was no Son.
.

The Word was manifested in the flesh

KJV) John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
2 The same was in the beginning with God

Greek NT - Textus Rec.) John 1:1 en arch hn o logoV kai o logoV hn proV ton qeon kai qeoV hn o logoV

NKJV) Revelation 19:13 He [was] clothed with a robe dipped in blood,
and His name is called The Word of God.

Greek NT - Textus Rec.) Revelation 19:13 kai peribeblhmenoV imation bebammenon aimati kai kaleitai to onoma autou o logoV tou qeou


....

 

[1whirlwind]

Then why is it that you do not understand my speech?

I understand His speech as He gives me to understand. I understand His Words and His speech through those filled with His Spirit. Does that answer your question? (think about it)

David said by the Spirit that the Lord said unto my Lord sit thou at my right hand until I make thine enemies thy footstool. If David called the Son of God Lord, then how is Christ Davids son?

"By the Spirit" David prophesied. In His vision the Lord in heaven said unto The Lord Jesus Christ...."Sit Thou at My right hand," which is His position of power, until "thine enemies are made Thy footstool." When does that happen?

The Son of God was not yet born of woman or, to put it another way, the Word was not yet made flesh, when David wrote those words. But, He would be and the part of Jesus Christ that WAS born of woman would be "David's son," or in the lineage of David. Hence...Son of God and Son of Man.

You are the one who is in error because the Son of God was with the Father in the very beginning, by whom also the worlds were made, as I showed you in Hebrews 1:2; but you reject the Truth.

I am not rejecting truth...I am understanding the verse.

Hebrews 1:2 Hath in these last days spoken unto us by His Son, whom He hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also He made the worlds;
​

If the Son of God was with God it would be written as such...it isn't. God was GOD and the WORD was GOD. The Word was not the Son of God until He became flesh and dwelt among us.

The Son, who was the Word made flesh, spoke "in these last days." The Word who "was with God, and "the Word was God," in the beginning was the One that "made the worlds." There is only One True God and the Word was God.

Also Christ did not come out of woman as you say, just as Christ also confessed that He came out from God. Neither was Christ born of this world, but came down from above.

"Christ did not come out of woman?" You sure you want to stick with that?

Luke 1:30-32 And the angel said unto her, Fear not, Mary: for thou hast found favour with God. And, behold, thou shalt conceive in thy womb, and bring forth a son, and shalt call his name JESUS. He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Highest: and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of his father David:
​

Jesus is the Son of God AND the Son of Man. He was born of woman as He was of God and as He came from above (we all come down from above).

This I also speak by the Spirit of Truth that dwells in me, which I also received by the revelation of Jesus Christ. If you don't believe me, then you don't believe in Jesus' testimony either.

I believe Him in all things. I need not believe you in all things for you are not the Son of God. What I see that "dwells in you" has a pompous spirit and that is not Christ.

John 8:23
And he said unto them, Ye are from beneath; I am from above: ye are of this world; I am not of this world.

Indeed...and are you attempting to say that because He is above that He was not born of woman?



.

 

[Blessedj01]

Jesus Christ is the Word of God.

 

[InSpiritInTruth]

Jesus Christ is the Word of God.

Amen, one who has been given ears to hear.

1 John 1:1
That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked upon, and our hands have handled, of the Word of life;

 

[1whirlwind]

Jesus Christ is the Word of God.

Yes He is and when the Word became flesh He was named Jesus. Before He was born of woman He, as the Word, was.....The Word was God [John1:1]


The point being Jesus and God are One True God.



.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Jesus Christ is the Word of God.

The majority of members appear to agree with thee on that

http://www.christianforums.com/t7542608/
The Word Of God [poll thread]

I know this has been done before in GT, but we're always losing friends but gaining new ones so wondered where the current bunch stood.

When you say 'The Word of God' do you speak of Jesus, the Bible, sometimes one, sometimes the other, or neither of these and something else?

Jesus Christ

29 40.28%
Sometimes Jesus, sometimes The Bible (either kind)

26 36.11%
The 66 book Bible

8 11.11%
The Bible containing the deuterocanon or apocrypha

1 1.39%
I never use the term 'The Word of God'

2 2.78%
Other

6 8.33%

 

[InSpiritInTruth]

Yes He is and when the Word became flesh He was named Jesus. Before He was born of woman He, as the Word, was.....The Word was God [John1:1]


The point being Jesus and God are One True God.



.

So when was the Son of God born?

 

[brinny]

The Word was manifested in the flesh

KJV) John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
2 The same was in the beginning with God

Greek NT - Textus Rec.) John 1:1 en arch hn o logoV kai o logoV hn proV ton qeon kai qeoV hn o logoV

NKJV) Revelation 19:13 He [was] clothed with a robe dipped in blood,
and His name is called The Word of God.

Greek NT - Textus Rec.) Revelation 19:13 kai peribeblhmenoV imation bebammenon aimati kai kaleitai to onoma autou o logoV tou qeou


....

Agreed, LLOJ.

 

[1whirlwind]

So when was the Son of God born?

Well...we celebrate His birthdate on December 25th, although that wasn't the date.


The answer to "when was the Son of God born," is...when He was born. Now another question could be...when did He come as the Son of God? That is when Mary conceived.



.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

So when was the Son of God born?

Would make for a interesting thread

NKJV) Galatians 4:4 But when the fullness of the time had come, God sent forth His Son, born of a woman, born under the law,

Revelation 2:18" And to the angel of the church in Thyatira write, "These things says the Son of God, who has eyes like a flame of fire and His feet like fine brass:

http://www.christianforums.com/t7616613/
When was Jesus born?

So i've recently started to look at scholarly articles about the historicity of Jesus and who the authors of the Bible are etc... And i came upon several sources that claim Jesus was born 4 BC now i'm still an amateur so maybe this old news or then again maybe not, can anyone help shed some light here please? Thanks

 

[Lion King]

No LionKing, there has never been a time when the Word was not God for "The Word WAS God." The Word was not "the Son" until He was born of woman.

The Word was with God before the world began for the "Word WAS God," but until the "Word was made flesh," there was no Son.

The point you are missing is that the Son of God is God! He is equal with God!

Let this mind be in you which was also in Christ Jesus, who, being in the form of God, did not consider it robbery to be equal with God, but made Himself of no reputation, taking the form of a bondservant, and coming in the likeness of men. And being found in appearance as a man, He humbled Himself and became obedient to the point of death, even the death of the cross. Therefore God also has highly exalted Him and given Him the name which is above every name, that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of those in heaven, and of those on earth, and of those under the earth, and that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father. Philippians 2:5-11

"This grace was given us in Christ Jesus before the beginning of time, but it has now been revealed through the appearing of our Savior, Christ Jesus."
​

Is that saying that Christ Jesus was before the beginning of time or....this grace of being saved that is given us was always the plan? It is the grace that is revealed through His appearing as our Saviour that was "before the beginning of time."

There is One True God....the Word WAS God....The Word was made flesh and then...we have the Son of God and Son of Man. Then we have Father and Son...two roles for one God.

Tell me something:

-do you believe that Christ is God?
-do you believe the Father is God?
-do you believe that the Holy-Spirit is God?

Again....

"Sorry...I don't see it saying He was "begotten" before He was born of woman. Before that He was God for He was the Word made flesh and the "Word Was God."

The difference you're trying to point out is sort of a you say tomato and I say tomato. He "brought forth, gave birth to, a unique" entity....Jesus, the Only Begotten Son of God. Simple. Nothing at all about being "begotten before the world was formed."
​

That is the point of all this LionKing...not some tiny difference in the meaning of begotten.

What is the meaning of the word "only begotten"?

The Word became Jesus Christ when the "Word was made flesh and dwelt among us." Until then He was not the "only begotten Son of God." The WORD WAS GOD." Not the Word was the Son of God but the Word was God.

Again, do you believe that the Son of God, is God?

That calls for a Scriptural quote...does it not?

Sure, no problemo.

The Son is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation. For in him all things were created: things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or powers or rulers or authorities; all things have been created through him and for him. He is before all things, and in him all things hold together. And he is the head of the body, the church; he is the beginning and the firstborn from among the dead, so that in everything he might have the supremacy. For God was pleased to have all his fullness dwell in him, and through him to reconcile to himself all things, whether things on earth or things in heaven, by making peace through his blood, shed on the cross. Colossians 1:15-20

All things were created through THE SON OF GOD.

He is also the only One that IS GOD.

Jesus Christ is NOT the only "One" (as in singular) that is God. The Father is God, The Holy Spirit is God.

Yes, Isaac was the "one and only son" of Abraham to whom the promises were made. Isaac was the unique son of a man. Jesus is the unique Son of God. We are sons of God but we are NOT the "only begotten Son of God."

Of course, we are not the only begotten Son of God! This is what I have been saying all along...only Christ is! He is the one and only Son of God, as to the many sons of the LORD (angels, adopted children).

I will ask you again, do you know what the word ONLY BEGOTTEN means?

Those are wonderful comparisons! Well done.

Thank God for the internet.

 

[InSpiritInTruth]

The Angel Joshua stood before was the Angel of the Lord and He is God, or the part of God that could be seen....He, as the Angel of the Lord, was Melchizedek who is Jesus Christ (before His Advent) for only He can cause our iniquity to pass.

Jesus who is the Angel of God that was to be born of woman for then He would be...the Son of God and Son of Man.

First thing an angel is a spirit and has not flesh and bone.

Second the scriptures say God is Spirit and cannot be seen,(invisible God) but you say a part of God that can be seen?

Then you say this Angel God that can be seen is Melchizedek, which is also Jesus Christ (before his advent). What?

Advent means the coming of Christ into the world. So did He, or didn't He, please make up your mind?

So your saying Jesus Christ did come, but then in the same breath your saying Jesus Christ did not come as this Angel God Melchizedek? Huh?

I'm confused because in the last part of your post you go on to say that Jesus the Angel of God Melchizedek was to be born later on of Mary and then become the Son of God and also son of Man. Wow! Really?

And you also said that the Son of God was not born until Jesus came in the flesh. So lets see what God actually said about His Son, and his Christ, and Melchisedec.

Hebrews 5:5-6

King James Version (KJV)


5So also Christ glorified not himself to be made an high priest; but he that said unto him, Thou art my Son, to day have I begotten thee. 6As he saith also in another place, Thou art a priest for ever after the order of Melchisedec.

First thing notice that Christ is spoken of as the Son of God, who would be after the order of Melchisedec, a priest forever.

Pay special attention to the highlighted parts.

In Hebrews 7:3 we learn more about the likeness of Melchisedec who is also a reflection of the Son of God who was also...

Hebrews 7:3;"Without father, without mother, without descent, having neither beginning of days, nor end of life: but made like unto the Son of God; abideth a priest continually."

So we see by scripture that the Lord's Christ, which is the Son of God, had no earthly parents, neither had he any beginning of days, meaning the Son of God always was, and has been ever eternal with God the Father from the very beginning.

That is the Truth.

 

[Lion King]

Well...we celebrate His birthdate on December 25th, although that wasn't the date.


The answer to "when was the Son of God born," is...when He was born. Now another question could be...when did He come as the Son of God? That is when Mary conceived.

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was with God in the beginning. John 1:1-2

The Word was with God. What does that mean to you?

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was with God in the beginning. John 1:1-2

The Word was with God. What does that mean to you?

It would seem that it would simply mean that the Word was with God

.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Originally Posted by LittleLambofJesus The Word was manifested in the flesh

Agreed, LLOJ.

Tis still a mystery to me, but it will all be solved at the sound of the 7th Messenger in Reve 10

Young) 1 Timothy 3:16 and confessedly great is the mystery of piety--
God was manifested in flesh, declared righteous in spirit, seen by messengers, preached among nations, believed on in the world, taken up in glory!

Revelation 10:7 but in the days of the voice of the seventh messenger, when he may be about to be trumpeting and the mystery of God may be finished,
as He did declare to His own servants, to the prophets.

hypnotized Fleetwood Mac - YouTube

 

[John 07]

So when was the Son of God born?

'from eternity', from Nicene creed , which GT posters are supposed to follow

here's 1st three paragraphs from the creed:

I believe in one God
the Father Almighty
Maker of heaven and earth
of all that is seen and unseen.

And in one Lord Jesus Christ.........Καὶ εἰς ἕνα Κύριον Ἰησοῦν Χριστόν,
the only begotten Son of God,.......τὸν Υἱὸν τοῦ Θεοῦ τὸν μονογενῆ,
begotten of the Father.............τὸν ἐκ τοῦ Πατρὸς γεννηθέντα
before all ages (from eternity)....πρὸ πάντων τῶν αἰώνων·

God from God,
Light from Light,
true God from true God,
begotten, not made,
of one being, with the Father;
through him all things were made.