Swedish Citizens Receive Threatening #ISIS Style Messages To Convert or Die

[keith99]

If Wren does indeed live in Sweden her reticence to answer could be due to this. If this is a legitimate law.

New Swedish Law Criminalizes Anti-immigration Internet Speech

It is far more likely that any delay is because of time differences or very real fear that if she answered you as you deserve she would break several site rules.

 

[LivingWordUnity]

If that is true, where was ISIS for the last 1500 years Islam has existed? I get the feeling neither ISIS nor you are experts on what True Islam™ is.
Even if that were true, political beliefs are protected just like religious beliefs are. I may disagree with Republicans and believe their ideas are bad for the country but I would never suggest that they shouldn't be allowed to hold those ideas.

No matter how damaging they could potentially be, we cannot outlaw ideas or beliefs. First off, it is impossible and second, the idea of thought-crime is immoral and patently fascist.

It wasn't called "ISIS," but a lot of what ISIS does was practiced from the very beginning of Islam, starting with Muhammad, the founder of that religion. The Crusades started as a defensive reaction to about two hundred years of Islamic conquest that was not very different from what we are seeing today of Islamic terrorism. And the Islamic conquest went to India, too.

Tell me if you think this sounds similar to what ISIS does:

CHITOR AND RANTHAMBOR

Rajput willingness to accept Mughal hegemony was not won without force. In the early I560s the most prestigious Rajput ruler, the Rana of Mewar, remained defiant. Udai Singh (1540-1572) was descended from the Sisodia ruler Rana Sanga who had died fighting Babur at the battle of Kanua in 1527. As head of the Sisodia clan he possessed the highest ritual status of all the Rajput rajas and chiefs scattered across the landscape of North and Central India. Unless Udai Singh were reduced to submission, the imperial authority of the Timurids would be lessened in Rajput eyes. Akbar, at this early period, was still enthusiastically devoted to the cause of Islam and sought to impress the superiority of his faith over the most prestigious warriors in Brahminical Hinduism.

Udai Singh's son was in uneasy residence in Akbar's court. When asked by Akbar (in jest as Abul Fazl claims) as to whether he would support his father or the emperor in a confrontation, the young Rajput prince fled back to Mewar. Akbar was enraged and determined on war. In September, 1567, the emperor led his armies in a holy war or jihad toward Chitor, the capital of Mewar, a fortified city rising 200 meters above the Rajasthan plain. As the imperial armies approached, Udai Singh's advisers in council concluded that the Sisodia army could not face the Mughals in open battle. Instead, Udai Singh left a 5,000 man garrison in Chitor with supplies to withstand a protracted siege and retreated to a subordinate fortress in the hills. Within a month Akbar laid his siege lines completely around Chitor. His raiding parties devastated the countryside and captured Udaipur, the other leading city.

After initial assaults on the walls failed, taking heavy casualties, the besieging army set up three large batteries to bombard the fort. Simultaneously, imperial sappers commenced digging tunnels for two mines and an approach trench (sabat). The artillerymen cast a large siege cannon on site to be used for breaching the walls when the sabat reached its objective. At this point the garrison tried to negotiate a surrender on terms; Akbar rejected this overture.

Fifty-eight days into the siege, the sappers had reached the walls and exploded the first of the mines. When the second mine went off it killed about 200 of the assault force caught in the breach. The defenders sealed up the walls. Akbar then pushed ahead with his covered trench to bring his siege cannon within range of the walls. On the night of 22 February, the Mughals made several breaches in the wall and began a general assault. During the melee, Akbar killed Jaimal, the Rajput commander of Chitor, with a well-aimed musket shot, whose death broke the morale of the defenders. Rising pillars of smoke soon signalled the rite of jauhar as the Rajputs killed their families and prepared to die in a supreme sacrifice. In a day filled with hand-tohand struggles virtually all the defenders died. The Mughal troops slaughtered another 20-25,000 ordinary persons, inhabitants of the town and peasants from the surrounding area on the grounds that they had actively helped in the resistance. Only an audacious body of one thousand musketeers, men of Kalpi who had done much damage to the Mughals in the siege, managed to escape Akbar's wrath. They bound their wives and children and marched them right through the imperial lines as if they were Mughal troops carrying off prisoners.

Although the imperial armies found little treasure to seize, the fortress was destroyed to the point that it remained deserted thereafter. A victory proclamation (fath nama) issued in early March celebrates the successful prosecution of the holy war against the polytheists by the Timurid ruler." Udai Singh, however, remained at large, uncaptured by the Mughals until his death four years later. Akbar, for his part, fulfilled an earlier vow by marching on foot to Ajmer in pilgrimage to the shrine of Khwaja Muin-ud-din Chishti. There, during the month of Ramazan, Akbar circumambulated the shrine, gave gifts to the poor and pious, and after ten days returned to Agra.

The next year, in February, 1569, Akbar led his army to an assault on the massive fortress at Ranthambor which, together with Chitor, controlled the major trade corridor to the sea. Rai Surjan, of the Hada lineage, held the fort and its territory as a vassal of Udai Singh. At Ranthambor, the Mughals employed hundreds of bullocks and dozens of elephants to drag fifteen massive siege guns to a hill overlooking the fortress. When, after only a month, these guns started bombarding the fortress and the covered way had reached the walls, the garrison surrendered on terms. Rai Surjan accepted imperial service in return for retention of his ancestral holdings.

The sieges of Chitor and Ranthambor were spectacular public events. The fall of these great forts demonstrated the reality of Mughal power for every warrior in North India. Outright defiance to the Mughal emperor was not possible; submission or death was the only choice.


Source:
John F. Richards, The Mughal Empire (Cambridge University Press, 1993), 25-27.

 

[AnonymousRain]

It is far more likely that any delay is because of time differences or very real fear that if she answered you as you deserve she would break several site rules.

I appreciate your insight. Thank you.

 

[Butterfly99]

Kinda feel like the OP is falling for a prank or something.

 

[tulc]

No, mockery of rape is not cute.
This will end our conversation.

I think I'm seeing a serious flounce coming to a thread near you!
tulc(making popcorn, waiting for the inevitable!)

 

[rambot]

It wasn't called "ISIS," but a lot of what ISIS does was practiced from the very beginning of Islam, starting with Muhammad, the founder of that religion. The Crusades started as a defensive reaction to about two hundred years of Islamic conquest that was not very different from what we are seeing today of Islamic terrorism. And the Islamic conquest went to India, too.

Tell me if you think this sounds similar to what ISIS does:

And the only practicing Jews are those who treat people the way the people of Israel treated their enemies while they were defeating their old testement enemies.

Or maybe there's some context left out of your understanding of the history of Islam and how it would reflect now.

 

[LivingWordUnity]

And the only practicing Jews are those who treat people the way the people of Israel treated their enemies while they were defeating their old testement enemies.

Or maybe there's some context left out of your understanding of the history of Islam and how it would reflect now.

We don't have the problem with Jews today that we have with Islamic terrorism. Can you explain why that is the case?

 

[Oafman]

Lots of picking on Sweden in the right wing press recently.

 

[classicalhero]

Wait a second.

Are you claiming 25% of the rapes in Sweden, are committed by Muslim refugees?

I would love to see a credible source on this.

Yeah, it seems far too low.

 

[classicalhero]

You're Swedish but you don't live in Sweden? Have you not read anything in Expressen that reports rape in Sweden?

They've done their best to silence the rape issue in Sweden since it would send the wrong signals.

 

[JGG]

I'm still waiting to find out how Muslim refugees raped a quarter of the women in Sweden in this credible article...

 

[keith99]

They've done their best to silence the rape issue in Sweden since it would send the wrong signals.

And an excellent job they have done, they even intimidate the raped Swedish girls into telling no one. Even better they have some magic way that prevents them from having any changes in behavior that their girlfriends might notice.

After all with 25% of all Swedish women raped by Islamic immigrants it is a sure thing that every single female in Sweden has a girlfriend who has been raped and most have several. Yet somehow no one knows about it.

 

[Blue Wren]

If Wren does indeed live in Sweden her reticence to answer could be due to this. If this is a legitimate law.

New Swedish Law Criminalizes Anti-immigration Internet Speech

It is infantile and egocentric to assume, any reticence, from me, because I have not immediately replied to your posts. Is the concept of a life, off of the internet, foreign to you? I was not going to remain at home, on a Friday night, to look for and reply, to your posts. It's a Saturday night now, and I will be enjoying it again soon. Do not expect a reply from me tonight, either.

That is not a legitimate law, no. Why would you use a source, that quotes the Expressen tabloid? Do you get your news, about America, from Star?

Actually I was asking for clarification being as most people know, one can be Swedish without residing in Sweden.

Whilst living in the United States, last year, on an exchange programme, I read Swedish news online. I didn't pollute my mind, with the rubbish you read. I now read news, about America, from here. I stay away from Star Magazine, US Weekly, Breitbert, ect, ect, ect.

To continue,are you saying you have not read or heard anything in the legitimate news sources in Sweden about the increase in rape statistics there? And per Muslims or Syrian refugees as culprit?

That is what I'm stating, yes. Do you realise, that the way rape statistics are compiled, in Sweden, differs widely from other countries? It gives the misleading idea, that there is more incidences of rape here, than there truly are.

I've not heard of any case, of Syrian refugees raping anyone. Again, sensible people do not read the nonsense you do.

I'm certain you didn't miss the post I'm referring to. The font with the link is quite large. And besides that there's a table attached to the post that is impossible to miss.

I also notice that Wren isn't so fast to answer my follow up question.

It would be nice, if you could be a little faster, at thinking things through. Such as time differences. People having activities, off this forum. The large font, is just obnoxious.

 

[JGG]

That is not a legitimate law, no. Why would you use a source, that quotes the Expressen tabloid? Do you get your news, about America, from Star?

Ummm...No. No. Of course not. I get my news from a reputable news source. The most reputable news source is where I get it from. I get it from the....Sssssstarrrrrrrrrrrrtttttttkkkkkkk. Stark News! All of my news from Stark News. I bet you didn't hear about what happened at the Red Wedding. Or that Tony Stark is really Iron Man. You don't get breaking news like that from the Stark. I mean the Star! You don't get news like that from the Star! I read the Stark. It's the good one.

I'm going to do something else now.

 

[Citanul]

After all with 25% of all Swedish women raped by Islamic immigrants it is a sure thing that every single female in Sweden has a girlfriend who has been raped and most have several. Yet somehow no one knows about it.

And despite no one knowing about it, the 25% is apparently a documented fact.

 

[keith99]

Must wait for fullness before replying to this thread. The POE is strong here.

 

[Chris B]

I can see good reason to be sceptical about that threat coming from ISIS, and it could easily be from aa group trying to stir up anti-Muslim sentiment.
No, that's not just a reflex position.
My first raised eyebrow came with the call to "convert".
Apart from new converts to Islam, the word is rarely used by informed Muslims.
The term considered doctrinally correct is "revert" since it is held that everyone is born Muslim, whether they know it or not.

It's not a "proof" slip of usage but it is interesting, similarly with the demand for "Dhimmi tax", Jizya, which is also peculiarly presented, if coming from genuine Muslims.

Going beyond a raised eyebrow of suspicion, however, I'll leave to experts


[/QUOTE]The ISIS Sunni Caliphate in Syria is the example of "true" Islam. How can countries tolerate such a faith when it is dedicated to terrorism?
[/QUOTE]
Is it? It's what they may claim but the vast majority of the Islamic world disagree with them.
Who gets to define "true Islam" may indeed be a major theological and military fight over the next few decades.
Non Muslims can only have a limited influence on that.

I won't post the link to the article behind this headline due to a questionable image, non-vulgar, of a woman on the page where it appears. However the article is titled:
‘Trump is right!’ Police say parts of Britain ARE no-go areas due to ISIS radicalisation
BRITISH police officers have sensationally backed Donald Trump’s controversial claim that parts of the country are no-go areas because of growing Islamist extremism.

Unfortunately, as is quite common with the Mirror, Mail and Express, the article itself bears no close relationship to the headlines. (but that's a good way of influencing people who only read the headlines, whilst staying out of trouble: the paper only has to point to the content of the article.)

From the article "One serving officer in west London said: “Islamification has and is occurring. You have to have extra vigilance in certain parts when you are working."
"One serving officer...." and hardly a "No-Go" area.
And thirty years ago some areas of central South London was far worse,
but the issue there was predominantly Jamaican Rastafarians.
Experience there showed that a heavy-handed and authoritarian approach to policing gave poor results. To put it mildly.
Why indeed not try a softly-softly approach including keeping community leaders on-side?

Something I don't think any free nation can afford to ignore or tolerate when it's adherents demand to have the right to control any area of a nation so as to make it comport or conform to their political ideology.

So, just for a thought experiment, the (Christian) adherents in, say, a midwest town should not object to me setting up an atheistic community in their midst? They would not try to insist that it comported or conformed to their political ideology?
Or is it OK as long as they are in the majority?

Chris

 

[Chris B]

As I said, ISIS are Sunni Muslim. I'm not going to play your game. You either know what Sunni Muslim is and what ISIS is or you don't.

I know enough to know that Sunni Islam varies immensely, so ISIS's expression of Sunni Islam does not represent the whole of Sunni Islam at all.
Much of Sunni Islam is comfortable with or tolerates Sufism. For ISIS it is quite the opposite.
ISIS has destroyed Sufi, Shia AND SUNNI shrines in areas where it has gained control.

Chris.