Suspect jailed in Kansas abortion doctor's killing

[mpok1519]

http://www.comcast.net/articles/news...ller.Shooting/

Its crazy that this happened. Its sad.

Just more proof that theres a hard-nosed fundamentalist right-wing agenda with people willing to kill folks with their wal-mart bought fiearms just to show the world that they have religious conviction pointed in any which direction which can cause the most pain and hardship.

Terrorists are also here at home willing to kill people for funamentalist religious convictions.

No different than the hijackers of nine-eleven in my opinion.

But, its safe to say that the murderer was mentally ill; any murderer or, well, anyone who loves guns, weapons and the power to cause pain is probably ill.

Pray for the Tiller family; and pray for the family of the murderer; they have a rough challenge ahead as well.

 

[lux et lex]

Its crazy that this happened. Its sad.

Just more proof that theres a hard-nosed fundamentalist right-wing agenda with people willing to kill folks with their wal-mart bought fiearms just to show the world that they have religious conviction pointed in any which direction which can cause the most pain and hardship.

Terrorists are also here at home willing to kill people for funamentalist religious convictions.

No different than the hijackers of nine-eleven in my opinion.

But, its safe to say that the murderer was mentally ill; any murderer or, well, anyone who loves guns, weapons and the power to cause pain is probably ill.

Pray for the Tiller family; and pray for the family of the murderer; they have a rough challenge ahead as well.

I'll quote this for emphasis. Praying for the family and I hope justice is brought for the very depraved person who did this.

 

[Dracil]

Pro-life murderers, right?

This is why when they call themselves "pro-lifers" I only hear "hypocrites"

 

[Blackguard_]

Tiller's killer is a vigilante, not a terrorist.

Pro-life murderers, right?

This is why when they call themselves "pro-lifers" I only hear "hypocrites"

Shooting abortionists is actually the consistent thing to do if you believe abortion is murder. If abortion is murder, shooting an abortionist as he's about to perform an abortion is A-OK. IIt would simply be defense of others, like shooting an armed robber.

The government not banning or punishing egregious acts leads to vigilantism, and so we get incidents like this.

 

[Jonathan David]

No Blackguard, that is most likely incorrect. This guy has intentionally targeted and killed a civilian in order to kill the individual and, most likely, to cause fear among a particular community in order to alter social policy. At least that's what every other attack on abortion clinics and doctors has been about.

I'm pretty sure that's what we call a terrorist these days.

 

[Joachim]

Just more proof that theres a hard-nosed fundamentalist right-wing agenda with people willing to kill folks with their wal-mart bought fiearms just to show the world that they have religious conviction pointed in any which direction which can cause the most pain and hardship.

.


You are aware that Walmart sells only shotguns and rifles right, and nothing all that high power or high capacity? Find me the Wal-Mart that sells pistols and AK's and I'll retract this.

Terrorists are also here at home willing to kill people for funamentalist religious convictions.

Oh we have domestic terrorists for reasons more than religious. The Klan, Black Panthers, Nation of Islam, Aryan Nations, and so forth.

But, its safe to say that the murderer was mentally ill;

Not necessarily. This looks pretty premediatated to me. It would have taken some stalking to know where they guy went to church and when he went to church.

any murderer or, well, anyone who loves guns, weapons and the power to cause pain is probably ill.

No. Many murderers are fully competent. Also, as a gun owner, I find it insulting that you consider me mentally ill because I am a gun owner and enjoy guns.

Pray for the Tiller family; and pray for the family of the murderer; they have a rough challenge ahead as well.

The murderer is in Kansas and Kansas has a very weak justice system. The killer will probably get off with life in prison and in protective custody to boot. In a real justice system, he'd be on the express lane to a proper punishment.

 

[mpok1519]

.


You are aware that Walmart sells only shotguns and rifles right, and nothing all that high power or high capacity? Find me the Wal-Mart that sells pistols and AK's and I'll retract this.

So? They sell machines that for the longest time have been used to deal homocide for years; hunting rifles and shotguns doesnt mean y'cant hunt people with em.

Oh we have domestic terrorists for reasons more than religious. The Klan, Black Panthers, Nation of Islam, Aryan Nations, and so forth.

Lobbyists too. lol

Not necessarily. This looks pretty premediatated to me. It would have taken some stalking to know where they guy went to church and when he went to church.


No. Many murderers are fully competent. Also, as a gun owner, I find it insulting that you consider me mentally ill because I am a gun owner and enjoy guns.

The murderer is in Kansas and Kansas has a very weak justice system. The killer will probably get off with life in prison and in protective custody to boot. In a real justice system, he'd be on the express lane to a proper punishment.

My mom is apart of the Kanas justice system. thats insulting. =P

And I said those who love guns, not enjoy. do you love your guns? Do you love them as you love your fellow human?

Premeditation of murder doesnt exclude the possibility of mental illness, though. I was emphasizing the fact that those who love guns and thier right winged fundamentalist agenda aprobably do have something wrong with their heads.

I just find it amazing that there are people out there willing to defend Tiller's murderer.

 

[heavensblade23]

Tiller's killer is a vigilante, not a terrorist.

No, a terrorist is someone who commits acts of violence in furtherance of a political or religious agenda, which I presume fits the profile of the shooter. He is a terrorist. Anyone that sympathizes with him supports anti-abortion terrorism.

Shooting abortionists is actually the consistent thing to do if you believe abortion is murder. If abortion is murder, shooting an abortionist as he's about to perform an abortion is A-OK. It would simply be defense of others, like shooting an armed robber.

Not by the law of this land, and in any case he was shot during a church service.

 

[mpok1519]

Tiller's killer is a vigilante, not a terrorist.

Shooting abortionists is actually the consistent thing to do if you believe abortion is murder. If abortion is murder, shooting an abortionist as he's about to perform an abortion is A-OK. It would simply be defense of others, like shooting a gun who comes at you with a knife.

The government not banning or punishing egregious acts leads to vigilantism, and so we get incidents like this.

should this be treated as a hate-crime? It is religiously motivated.

 

[heavensblade23]

Oh we have domestic terrorists for reasons more than religious. The Klan, Black Panthers, Nation of Islam, Aryan Nations, and so forth.

I don't think the Black Panthers or Nation Of Islam are terrorist groups, but I could be wrong. I met a Black Panther once and he didn't strike me as the type to go around committing acts of violence.

 

[fated]

Already in this forum it is clear that this murder foments prejudice against pro-life persons, even though they and their groups proclaim their taking offense of this murder. I seem to have been called a terrorist or murderer, right at the begining of the thread. Ah, well, we might just see a bunch of innocent people treated harshly under oppressive laws because one person was to stupid to see that more children will be saved through protest than by murdering a doctor.

It is important that every pro-life person remember to call this killing a murder, because it could quickly be construed somehow of guilt by the pro-abortion lobby that would like to curtail the rights of people who have done and planned no harm.

 

[lawtonfogle]

No Blackguard, that is most likely incorrect. This guy has intentionally targeted and killed a civilian in order to kill the individual and, most likely, to cause fear among a particular community in order to alter social policy. At least that's what every other attack on abortion clinics and doctors has been about.

I'm pretty sure that's what we call a terrorist these days.

He most likely either did it to...


Defend who he thought were children getting killed directly.
Or.
Defend who he thought were children getting killed indirectly, by causing terror.
Or.
Both.

If the former, he is not a terrorist. If either the latter, he is.

That being said, can ever a terrorist be justified (and I would say that an attack on a soldier to cause terror for some greater objective is terrorism as well)?

 

[Joachim]

I don't think the Black Panthers or Nation Of Islam are terrorist groups, but I could be wrong. I met a Black Panther once and he didn't strike me as the type to go around committing acts of violence.

I would call what they were doing in Philadelphia during the election as terrorism. As for the NOI. All you need to know about them is that they teach that white people were invented by an evil mad scientist who was out to destroy black people.

Southern Poverty Law Center considers both to be hate groups.

 

[Joachim]

So? They sell machines that for the longest time have been used to deal homocide for years; hunting rifles and shotguns doesnt mean y'cant hunt people with em.

You can't stop people from hunting people with their cars either, so where is your rant about that?

My mom is apart of the Kanas justice system. thats insulting. =P

Well, your state doesn't really use the death penalty, and you keep your prisoners in clean prisons and don't force them to do farmwork in the 100 degree summer heat, or industrial work in a prison room that has no air conditioning and with only limited water breaks. To me, that is a weak justice system.

Premeditation of murder doesnt exclude the possibility of mental illness, though. I was emphasizing the fact that those who love guns and thier right winged fundamentalist agenda aprobably do have something wrong with their heads.

What about those with a left-wing agenda?

I just find it amazing that there are people out there willing to defend Tiller's murderer .

When did I ever defend his murderer?

 

[Blackguard_]

No Blackguard, that is most likely incorrect. This guy has intentionally targeted and killed a civilian in order to kill the individual and, most likely, to cause fear among a particular community in order to alter social policy. At least that's what every other attack on abortion clinics and doctors has been about.

I'm pretty sure that's what we call a terrorist these days.

His targeting of the individual leads me to think this is more about vigilantism. He targeted the person directly responsible for what he considered heinous crimes and not say, pro-choice politicians or his family. That Tiller was a civilian is irrelevant. Can vigilantes not intend to inspire fear in 'criminals'? This is why i don't like the term "terrorism". It can be too broad at times.

Not by the law of this land,

hence vigilantism. The Stare won't do justice(in his eyes), so he took it into his own hands.

and in any case he was shot during a church service.

Right. This case was murder. I didn't mean to imply it wasn't.

That being said, can ever a terrorist be justified (and I would say that an attack on a soldier to cause terror for some greater objective is terrorism as well)?

Do you beleive war can ever be justified?

 

[heavensblade23]

I would call what they were doing in Philadelphia during the election as terrorism. As for the NOI. All you need to know about them is that they teach that white people were invented by an evil mad scientist who was out to destroy black people.

That stupid display at the polling place, where they left without any violence committed? That's a pretty low bar to set for what constitutes a terrorist act.

Southern Poverty Law Center considers both to be hate groups.

A hate group isn't necessarily a terrorist group, even though they often go hand in hand.

 

[heavensblade23]

Well, your state doesn't really use the death penalty, and you keep your prisoners in clean prisons and don't force them to do farmwork in the 100 degree summer heat, or industrial work in a prison room that has no air conditioning and with only limited water breaks. To me, that is a weak justice system.

Christians call that 'mercy'.

 

[mpok1519]

You can't stop people from hunting people with their cars either, so where is your rant about that?

well, cars can kill you two ways; running you over, or poisoning you by filling the air full of pollution. I got a big rant about that one; wait till I bust out all the stuff about environmental injustice. Did you know almost all US toxic or radiological waste is dumped in poor minoity populated areas in the south? oh man, its terrible.

Well, your state doesn't really use the death penalty, and you keep your prisoners in clean prisons and don't force them to do farmwork in the 100 degree summer heat, or industrial work in a prison room that has no air conditioning and with only limited water breaks. To me, that is a weak justice system.

Yeah, cuz, most prisoners aren't really violent; most prisoners are non-violent drug offendors; a non-violent drug offender doesn't deserve t be imprisoned in the first place. Wehave a weak justice system because we're still throwing people in prison for years for possessing drugs. Theres no justice there, just forms of acceptable inhumanity. This is a ign Kansas believes in humane treatment and rehabilitation of our 'criminals', even though most of them are good, hard-working individuals who decided to sell some drugs for a little extra profit. People act as if if you're in prison, you are atomatically a bad person, when, it can be perfectly legal to be an evil person who cuts down trees and rapes the land for profit. You act as if prisoners aren't even people.

What about those with a left-wing agenda?

The people who believe in evolution, progression of medical science with stem cell research, and increase civil liberties of the populous? Yeah, theyre way cooler than the radicals who think its okay to kill fully grown adults for their religious beliefs, imho. I think the let-wing agenda is a little more civillized and logical than the right-winged agenda of trying to get ID taught in schools, not let gys get married, bombing abortion clinics, etc.

When did I ever defend his murderer?

I don't think you did; but do you have some level of sympathy for Tiller's murderer?

 

[Blackguard_]

nevermind

 

[platzapS]

If abortion is really the moral equivalent of murder, this guy did nothing wrong. He sacrificed his freedom (and maybe his life) to save thousands of others in the future, and is quite honorable.

This leads me to believe that those anti-abortion activists who honestly condemn Tiller's killer either:

A) are absolute pacifists who think no killing is ever justified, or

B) don't really believe abortion is morally equivalent to murder