Steven Robinson and Bill Gould - just checking?

[~Anastasia~]

Just thought I should double-check opinions.

I ran across a podcast series on AFR called "Our Life in Christ" - it's an archived series. Steven Robinson and Bill Gould are the names on it. They had what I thought was a wonderful series on the prayer of St. Ephraim, which I listened to at least twice.

I checked the listing, and there are lots of other good, basic topics, and started listening. Their method (at least in the one I'm listening to - Prayer to the Saints) is different from what I'm used to hearing in Orthodoxy, but maybe they wanted to prove their point without depending on the ECFs or Tradition. They went purely be Scripture and offer what I think are great insights (makes me wonder how I could have overlooked so many things!).

Anyway, I think they are also both Orthodox laity. Everything I've heard so far seems very sound, but I may spend a lot of time listening this week, so I thought under the circumstances, I'd love to have opinions/input. Anyone here familiar with them?

I think Steve Robinson went on to become more well-known as "Steve the builder".

Thanks!

 

[RobNJ]

I used to listen to OLIC, MP3's from their website, before there was an AFR, I think. I believe the theology is sound, but someone around here will probably find something negative, just to maintain the status quo


Can read more about the show here :

Our Life in Christ » About Us

 

[gzt]

They're generally sound, they're on AFR, but sure I wouldn't expect an imprimatur and it's probably not 100% correct. If it were truly problematic, somebody would complain and I know Steve would definitely listen to correction - I know he's fairly low-ego about this kind of thing.

 

[rusmeister]

I have followed him for years. if I had a spiritual father, I'd want it to be him.
(Insert video of Sam Gamgee saying something like that...)

Yeah, Bill dropped out of the public eye, but Steve went on to do "Steve the Builder", and it is great - in a less catechismic, but more personal way. Bill evidently told Steve to keep his life private, and not divulge details to us in general.

I don't think there's a whole lot you could correct Steve on, really. You might latch on to the way he personalizes fasting, for instance, but it's mainly insisting that how other people fast is not our business; we are to focus on our own efforts only.

 

[~Anastasia~]

Thanks so much everyone.

I'm glad to hear that. What I've listened to so far has been very edifying. I just like to keep tabs on what I'm taking in, and I really appreciate the input. Looks like the morning liturgy gets out too late for me to work a half-day, so I'm either going to be driving 4 hours a day (not likely, but it would give me a lot of listening time) or else having 7-8 hours to fill in the city (also lots of podcast time).

Thanks again, so much.

 

[ArmyMatt]

yeah I have heard nothing but good from those podcasts, especially from Steve.

 

[~Anastasia~]

I know I've heard teachings in various places that are not 100% before (that has to go without saying when major contributors can't quite agree on this point or that - logic dictates that someone is probably wrong ) but it's usually minor details or something speculative. Probably far safer than reading FB groups, and I do that sometimes (though I hold pretty much everything there with suspicion, and even claims of being a priest, bishop, or monk could be fabricated, so I don't give that 100% trust either). Generally I find AFR to be FAR more trustworthy.

And I had to look up imprimatur.

I'm listening to his earlier stuff, I take it, but it sounds like he could gave gone on to be a wonderful spiritual father.

Thanks again!

 

[gzt]

"Imprimatur" is a Catholic thing - it's essentially a certification from a bishop that it's up to the standard for publication of official church material and it looks like it's free of doctrinal and moral error, whether or not they agree with or endorse the opinions present.

 

[rusmeister]

Steve's views on capital punishment and the rightness of using force to protect your neighbor might ruffle some feathers, but he was so convincing in his podcast series on the death penalty that I, yes me, Rusmeister, actually changed my mind. I had opposed the death penalty in principle until I listened to him.

How many people do you know that could change my mind?

 

[~Anastasia~]

Steve's views on capital punishment and the rightness of using force to protect your neighbor might ruffle some feathers, but he was so convincing in his podcast series on the death penalty that I, yes me, Rusmeister, actually changed my mind. I had opposed the death penalty in principle until I listened to him.

How many people do you know that could change my mind?

Lol, that's probably saying something!

He hasn't changed my mind about anything. But I simply didn't know about the prayer of St. Ephraim in great detail, and I never saw all the Scriptural support he provides for other things.

It's so basic, what I'm listening to. But he builds off Scripture so well and in such simple terms, I have to wonder how I never managed to put 2 and 2 together, although I had an idea the answer probably was 4. Just didn't know how to get there.

Looks like I'm going to have a lot of hours to listen this week.

 

[RobNJ]

Steve's views on capital punishment and the rightness of using force to protect your neighbor might ruffle some feathers, but he was so convincing in his podcast series on the death penalty that I, yes me, Rusmeister, actually changed my mind. I had opposed the death penalty in principle until I listened to him.

How many people do you know that could change my mind?

Did you write down the date? THAT is worth marking on the calendar!

 

[Cappadocious]

Their method (at least in the one I'm listening to - Prayer to the Saints) is different from what I'm used to hearing in Orthodoxy, but maybe they wanted to prove their point without depending on the ECFs or Tradition. They went purely be Scripture and offer what I think are great insights (makes me wonder how I could have overlooked so many things!)

What does it mean to depend?

We can depend on the Tradition without quoting the Fathers or saying "the Fathers say..." In fact, the Fathers themselves argued from the Scriptures more than from other Fathers (explicitly), at least from my reading.

One can quote the Fathers with no Orthodox ethos, and one can have an Orthodox ethos without quoting the Fathers.

That said, whether or not Steve is correct in his teachings is another matter. For my part, I think he's a good man at the very least.

 

[gzt]

I also think their method of reading the Scriptures is pretty patristic. To go on from Cappadocious, "One can quote the Fathers with no Orthodox ethos, and one can have an Orthodox ethos without quoting the Fathers, but one can't have an Orthodox ethos without quoting the Scriptures extensively and correctly." We should know the Bible better than Protestants.

 

[~Anastasia~]

What does it mean to depend?

We can depend on the Tradition without quoting the Fathers or saying "the Fathers say..." In fact, the Fathers themselves argued from the Scriptures more than from other Fathers (explicitly), at least from my reading.

One can quote the Fathers with no Orthodox ethos, and one can have an Orthodox ethos without quoting the Fathers.

That said, whether or not Steve is correct in his teachings is another matter. For my part, I think he's a good man at the very least.

I always love the questions you ask back. You often make it clear to me that my writing is not precise in my meaning though. I only meant that their method of teaching is different from my limited experience.

I am continuing to listen to the podcasts, and have found more titles I am intensely interested in. Probably enough to keep me busy for a couple of months. Which is good. Fr. Evan Armitas did much to shape my understanding early on, and Fr. Thomas Hopko + is proving invaluable as well. I thank God for all of them.

And you bring up a more interesting point than that of my initial question.

My reading of the Fathers is still limited. It takes so much time - there is truly such a vast treasury of knowledge available to us! Scriptures, the ECFs, the monastics, contemporary teachers. I've just barely scratched the surface of any of it.

So I really can't comment on the Fathers and Scripture. I'm delighted if you are right (and I'm thinking you are!). Part of what I've read has been Scripture commentary, but if get sent too to one Father specifically refuting this heresy or error or that. So my view is still unbalanced.

I especially appreciate this:

One can quote the Fathers with no Orthodox ethos, and one can have an Orthodox ethos without quoting the Fathers.

That is certainly true! I've seen enough Protestants trying to dispute the Orthodox faith through misapplication or misunderstanding of the Fathers. I won't speak from experience on the other position

Thank you for the post.

 

[~Anastasia~]

I also think their method of reading the Scriptures is pretty patristic. To go on from Cappadocious, "One can quote the Fathers with no Orthodox ethos, and one can have an Orthodox ethos without quoting the Fathers, but one can't have an Orthodox ethos without quoting the Scriptures extensively and correctly." We should know the Bible better than Protestants.

Everything I've heard so far seems in line with Patristics as I understand them. I've been through 3 series now, and the others have a good many quotes from the early monastics if not properly ECFs (and maybe some of those are counted as ECFs).

I think their aim was in fact to defend Orthodox practice strictly from Scripture, without having to say "because the Church says so" ... which is almost never a sufficient reason for Protestants (and which should be expected, since the whole of Protestantism came out of the idea of reforming Catholic teachings).

I'm amazed at how much Scripture we actually read and hear - but then there is a heavy dose during Holy Week I guess. Soooooo many Psalms! (And I love them!) And other substantial readings as well.

 

[GregConstantine]

I agree that we should know the Scriptures better than Protestants, it is our book after all, not theirs.

I believe it is time we reclaim the Scriptures as rightly ours. I roll my eyes everytime I see a tv series claiming to have some kind of special knowledge of the scriptures, or some tv or movie based on the scriptures.

We should be making those movies and tv shows, not the heterodox or secular people. We should be the ones they go to to learn what the scriptures mean, not some Baptist or Episcopalian church.

 

[Mary of Bethany]

Waaayyy back around 2000, when I was inquiring into Orthodoxy, I joined a yahoo orthodox-convert list. Steve was one of the main posters on there, and he was so helpful to me and everyone else on there. I've been a big fan of his ever since then, just for the way he tries to get to the heart of things in a very down-to-earth way.

Mary

 

[~Anastasia~]

Waaayyy back around 2000, when I was inquiring into Orthodoxy, I joined a yahoo orthodox-convert list. Steve was one of the main posters on there, and he was so helpful to me and everyone else on there. I've been a big fan of his ever since then, just for the way he tries to get to the heart of things in a very down-to-earth way.

Mary

Well, I am really enjoying his interviews with Abbot Jonah Paffhausen. Still listening to the "Mary" series now - but I think that one is 8+ hours and I guess I've spent a lot of time reading on the Theotokos (one of my biggest difficulties) so a lot are things I've already run across by now.

But that's a good description. It's very down to earth, so easy to follow and understand. Some teachers I gave to try to understand concepts and keep the definitions in mind while I try to follow and see how they relate to the argument. I learn a lot, but I come out of those less sure of my thinking. Steve makes it so simple and straightforward, I'm left thinking how obvious it really is and wondering why I never saw it. I do really appreciate the way he builds arguments.

And to think he produced the podcasts and gave away Orthodox Study Bibles just as a hobby. I have to admire his commitment to evangelism. I'm liking him more and more.

Thanks for the comment and I hope I'm halfway making sense. Exhausted, lol. I love Holy Week.

 

[rusmeister]

I have one of the Study NT+Psalms they were giving out. It was quite a surprise to receive one in the mail at the local Russian post office!

 

[Kristos]

I have enjoyed many of Steve's podcasts in the past. I didn't realize that he is still doing them - I will have to subscribe!