speaking in tongues

[JVD]

Soldier...you make some interesting assertions.

I have family members who have raised people from the dead

I have heard this many times...never seen it documented really.

I understand the Bible in its entirety,

I don't think I have ever head anyone say this before.

and is baptised (GR 'Baptizo' = 'fully immersed' in water) shall be saved;

And if you are NOT fully immersed???

But when that which is perfect has come (Jesus Christ/God),

While I grant you that this is a very plausible interpretation, you are convinced it is true because...???

all who I know have the Spirit speak in tongues, whether they follow God or not.

This is an interesting statement...

Quit the Babble and Learn what your talking about

This headline makes me wonder if the rest of your post is "tongue in cheek"...so to speak...is it?

 

[Yebo]

Greetings from a sunny South Africa

From previous posts it is quite evident that 1 Cor 13:8 indicates aspects that will pass away/ cease “Love never fails. But whether there are prophecies, they will fail; whether there are tongues, they will cease; whether there is knowledge, it will vanish away. In this verse 3 aspects are being listed and speaking in tongues are merely 1 of them and all 3 will fail/cease/vanish when the perfect has come (verse 10). Note that the requirement for all 3 to fail/cease/vanish is the arrival of "the perfect".

The majority of time when this scripture is being used in this kind of debat, the discussion revolves around “prophecies and tongues and normally never get to knowledge, yet the requirement to fail/cease/vanish remains the same.

Let’s take knowledge this time to prove that tongues still are available! If my information is correct, Paul used the word “gnosis” in the quoted scripture. According to the New Strong’s Guide to Bible Words, the following is given:

“gnw`si"gnoµsis, gno´-sis; from 1097; knowing (the act), i.e. (by impl.) knowledge:— knowledge, science”

According to my Oxford Advanced Learner’s Dictionary of Current English (Published by Oxford University Press, Fourteenth Impression 1981), the following is reflected under KNOWLEDGE: “1. understanding: A baby has no ~ of good and evil. 2. familiarity gained by experience; range of information: My ~ of French is poor. K~ of the defeat soon spread. It has come to my ~ (= I have been informed) that you have been spreading gossip about me. To the best of my ~ (=As far as I know) he is honest and reliable. She married without the ~ of her parents.” (My underlining)

Based then on the scripture quoted above, “understanding” as well as “familiarity gained by experience; range of information” will pass fail/cease/vanish. The question now arises, has knowledge cease to exist. Apparently not, simply because we still have “understanding” as well as “familiarity gained by experience; range of information”. This “understanding” as well as “familiarity gained by experience; range of information” will cease, I agree, but only when Jesus (THE PERFECT) is returning.

"Knowledge can also be defined as the truth or facts of life that a person acquires either through experience or thought. The greatest truth that a person can possess with the mind or learn through experience is truth about God (Ps. 46:10; John 8:31–32). This cannot be gained by unaided human reason (Job 11:7; Rom. 11:33). It is acquired only as God shows Himself to people—in nature and conscience (Ps. 19; Rom. 1:19–20); in history or providence (Deut. 6:20–25; Dan. 2:21); and especially in the Bible (Ps. 119; Rev. 1:1–3).Mental knowledge by itself, as good as it may be, is inadequate; it is capable only of producing pride (1 Cor. 8:1; 13:2).

Moral knowledge affects a person’s will (Prov. 1:7; Phil. 3:11–12; 1 John 4:6). It is knowledge of the heart, not the mind alone. The Book of Proverbs deals primarily with this kind of knowledge. Experiential knowledge is that gained through one’s experience (Gen. 4:1; 2 Cor. 5:21; 1 John 4:7–8).

The apostle Paul’s wish for the church at Colosse was that they might increase in the “knowledge of God” (Col. 1:10).”

Now, if knowledge did not fail/cease/vanish yet based on the fact that Jesus has not yet returned, why would tongues then have ceased based on the same requirement? It just doesn't make sense, does it?

Furthermore, Paul wrote the letter to the church in Corinth "To the church of God which is at Corinth, to those who are sanctified in Christ Jesus, called to be saints,..." to assist then in a number of aspects, but this letter is also written to " ... with all who in every place call on the name of Jesus Christ our Lord, both theirs and ours: Grace to you and peace from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ." 1 Cor 1:2&3 (My underlining).

Paul wrote this letter also to me and you and if you call on the name of Jesus then the contents are there for your disposal. What are you doing with it?

 

[GenemZ]

Why can't you people actually READ and UNDERSTAND????????

The Bible says that to be a Christian you have to have the Holy Spirit (Romans 8:9, John 4:21-24, etc). There is no other way.

That part is true. Yet, even in the early Church, not all spoke in tongues.

As to tongues they are a SIGN, one among many that show that a person is filled with God's Holy Spirit and is a True, scriptual Christian:

Not so fast. Witches can speak in tongues. So can Tabetian monks. Are they filled with the Holy Spirit? Greek and Roman cults had speaking in tongues. Speaking in tongues does not prove one is filled with the Holy Spirit. Read the following (carefully).

"Not everyone who says to me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. Many will say to me on that day, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and in your name drive out demons and perform many miracles?' Then I will tell them plainly, 'I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!' " Matthew 7:21-23 niv

Can anyone do those things without the Holy Spirit? You bet they can! Jesus said that so called believers will do these things, all in the name of Jesus. They will call him Lord, too! Yet, Jesus will tell them that ne never knew them. They were never saved. Yet, in Jesus name they were casting out demons. Performing miracles.... All in Jesus name.

"Therefore tongues are for a sign, not to those who believe but to unbelievers; but prophesying is not for unbelievers but for believers." (1 Corinthians 14:22)

Yup... It was s sign to unbelieving Jews as a warning to them, up until Jerusalem fell. Jews require a sign. This was a sign to those rejecting the Messiah.

"And He (Jesus) said unto them (His followers), "Go into all of the world and preach the Gospel (God-spell - good news) to all who live. He who believes (trusts, obeys - not confesses) and is baptised (GR 'Baptizo' = 'fully immersed' in water) shall be saved; but he who does not believe will be condemned.

In the church age there is only one Lord, one faith, and one baptism (Ephesians 4:5). You make it two baptisms, required. The baptism we are required to be saved is the baptism of the Holy Spirit which we receive at the point of salvation.

"For we were all baptized by one Spirit into one body--whether Jews or Greeks, slave or free--and we were all given the one Spirit to drink."
1 Corinthians 12:13 niv

And these signs shall follow them that believe: In My name they will cast out devils; they will speak in NEW TONGUES;" (Mark 16:15-17 - if any one wants to deny the validity of Mark 16:9-20 I suggest they look up Bible numerics, and the historians who directly reference to Mark 16:19 150 years before the Vatican manuscript was written.)

They did speak in tongues. Yes! While the sign was still to be utilized in God's plan. Do tongues act as a sign to unbelievers today? Heck no! They think you're all crazy...

"With people of other tongues and other lips I will speak to this multitude; and yet, for all that, they will not hear Me." (Isaiah 28:11-12/1 Corinthians 14:21)

And? THey did not hear him. Guess what? Because they did not, Jerusalem was destroyed in 70AD. After that, what is the sense having a sign to the unbeliever? He had been already judged!

"For we know in part and prophesy in part. But when that which is perfect has come (Jesus Christ/God), THEN shall that which is in part be done away." (1 Corinthians 13:9-10)

The Greek would have to have the masculine gender modifying the word for "perfect," in order to be speaking of the Lord. The Greek uses the neuter, which means the word "perfect" speaks of a "thing," not a person! You did not know that. Nor does the one who taught you that falsehood assumed to be truth. The Greek is much more revealing on certain issues that you just will not get in the generic English translations.

"What then shall we say, brothers? When you come together, everyone has a hymn, or a word of instruction, a revelation, a tongue or an interpretation. All of these must be done for the strengthening of the church. If anyone speaks in a tongue, two--or at the most three--should speak, one at a time, and someone must interpret. If there is no interpreter, the speaker should keep quiet in the church and speak to himself and God." 1 Corinthians 14:26-28 niv

If I got a dollar for everytime I heard the outbreak of those speaking en mass in a congregation, babbling out loud, in tongues! All at once, and with no interpreter! I would be a very rich man! They always claimed to feel the Holy Spirit. But, the Holy Spirit will not rebel against Paul's command! And, Paul spoke in tongues! That can not be the Holy Spirit you are feeling when that happens. That is, if you don't believe the Holy Spirit will rebel against God's Word. Do you believe God's Word? Or, would you rather believe in your experience, and then twist God's Word to make it justifiable? Jesus warned us....

"Not everyone who says to me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. Many will say to me on that day, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and in your name drive out demons and perform many miracles?' Then I will tell them plainly, 'I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!' " Matthew 7:21-23 niv

He did not lie. Man does.

Grace in truth........ GeneZ

 

[ahab]

Hi Genez,



Sorry but can I press on this point. You claimed that Paul describes tongues as a temporary gift that will cease before the other gifts, I asked where does Paul describe this?

Your answer which I apologise for not seeing was 1 Cor 13:8-10. but Paul says these will cease when we see fully as Yebo has so well illustrated. If you saying we see fully nowI would disagree with you. Also Paul then goes on to talk about tongues in detail.

Hello? Peter never accused Paul of that.

I assumed that as I was quoting Paul and you posted 2 Peter 2:1 that you were implying Paul was being critised by Peter. The point is that Paul talks of tongues and we are now discussing how we interpret what Paul says.

You asked for me to supply what I already have, which shows you are not following the full context of this thread.

No that shows that I didn’t see that as an answer to my question. (As above) In short, to me Paul doesn’t say that tongues and prophecy will cease until we know fully and I dont think we know fully yet as Paul indeed finishes that passage with “Now I know in part; then I shall know fully”

All you questioned and asked had already been dealt with. If you would only read what is written correctly you would not say such things as you have in response.

As you see you are perhaps jumping to conclusions that your answers are undeniably correct and not willing to address what others see as fundamental flaws with your answers.



I also pray that you will come to know the gift of tongues and the wonderful release it will give you in prayer and worship as you talk to our Father and come into His presence.

Blessings

 

[JVD]

I actually am not a cessationist, although they do have some merit on their side. But I do not believe that the babbling done today is the tongues of the Bible. There is nothing to say it is other than the word of the practicioners. As far as they are concerned, they say it is...so it is. That is totally and completely subjective.

I've said it before in different threads, I have researched this for many years, and was very open to it at one time, but have come to the conclusion that most of the babbling called tongues is self-delusional babbling, nothing more.

If you don't believe sincere christians can delude themselves I can show you the video's of people at Peter Popoff's crusades.

Tongues speakers are usually genuinely seeking God and are usually sincere followers of God. I do not judge them on their sincerity or desire to follow the Lord. I am more concerned about what usually starts to come out of many tongues speaking churches, and that is the "signs and wonders" and/or the "word of faith" that begins to manipulate christians even more. They have already bought into tongues...now "let's go further".

 

[GenemZ]

Your answer which I apologise for not seeing was 1 Cor 13:8-10. but Paul says these will cease when we see fully as Yebo has so well illustrated. If you saying we see fully nowI would disagree with you. Also Paul then goes on to talk about tongues in detail.

And? Moses went on and described the animal sacrifices in detail. Much more derail, in fact, than given for tongues. Because of all this detail given, animal sacrifices are therefore, for today? Your logic says, yes.

No that shows that I didn’t see that as an answer to my question. (As above) In short, to me Paul doesn’t say that tongues and prophecy will cease until we know fully and I dont think we know fully yet as Paul indeed finishes that passage with “Now I know in part; then I shall know fully”

You guys always miss this! Paul was giving one example after another of going from an immature state, to maturity. Incomplete, to completed. Here, look.

"..but when perfection comes, the imperfect disappears." " When I was a child, I talked like a child, I thought like a child, I reasoned like a child. When I became a man, I put childish ways behind me.""Now we see but a poor reflection as in a mirror; then we shall see face to face.""Now I know in part; then I shall know fully, even as I am fully known." 1 Corinthians 13:10-12 niv

Those were all different illustrations of going from immature, to maturity.

Paul was telling them that tongues are the infancy of the Church age. That we are to put aside our childish ways as we mature! That tongues (and other temporary gifts) will be all out grown and no longer needed once we have the completed issue. When that was written, the New testament was fragmented, and incomplete. When the perfect (neuter gender in Greek) comes, the immature issues will be dropped. The neuter gender reveals that it can not be speaking in reference to the Lord, but a thing! The completed canon of Scripture was being developed at that time. When it was completed, in the language of the day, it would be said to be perfect!

That's what Paul is talking about! Not that when we see the Lord, tongues will cease! To think like that way, would also have to mean that tongues are only for children, and when they grow up to be adults they will cease speaking in tongues! Because, Paul chose that as to illustrate what happens when something matures.

Besides, if what you claimed were the truth, then we might as well throw all the gifts in to cease. For all the gifts will cease when we are with the Lord. There will be no need for evangelists in Heaven, now will we? Pastors? Not at all! Why are they not mentioned to cease, too?

Another thing.... The Greek words used for ceasing (or coming to an end) are not the same for each gift. One explains a sudden cutting off. Another shows a gradual fading out. When we enter into Heaven all the past will suddenly be stopped! The new will begin in an instant! Once again, the Greek (when understood) shows how English translations leave those who desire whats not of God, to feel open to do as they please. Yet, God will always raise up someone with the answer to show those refusing to follow the error that The Spirit had been restraining them faithfully.

I also pray that you will come to know the gift of tongues and the wonderful release it will give you in prayer and worship as you talk to our Father and come into His presence.

Jesus never spoke in tongues, yet he was the closest walk ever to be had with the Father. Jesus walked in the Spirit, and lived by every word of God. He did not need tongues because he already knew the completed Scriptures! We now have the completed Scriptures. Yet, you wish to remain as a child, babbling in the crib. But, those days are gone! We have teachers who can teach us the full council of God's Word. That is, if you really want it. When you have it, you no longer will live by stimulation (emotional charged)... but by inspiration (by wisdom and understanding).

Your thinking wants to live in a re-inactment of the past. You wish to live as the early Church did. It would be like the Jews having a pageant every year and walking through a make believe parted Red Sea. Yet, I realize that the experience of tongues is real to you. That's the danger!


Test the spirits! What they produce must be in agreement with God's Word. If not, proving all things will save us from deception. That is why we have God's Word. To ignore its warnings leaves us without excuse.

But, not all who claim to be of God, are! Even those who call Him, "Lord, Lord!" And, even those who do many supernatural things in Jesus name. I say this not to be judgemental, for I do not know your status with God. But, I say this to warn you not to think what you are doing is from God. We all have our areas where we can be deceived. This one is yours.

"Not everyone who says to me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. Many will say to me on that day, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and in your name drive out demons and perform many miracles?" Then I will tell them plainly, 'I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!' " Matthew 7:21-23 niv

Satan is merciless. God sends us his Word to shield us from merciless evil. Yet, we must decide who we will serve. Many believers who will be in Heaven someday, refused God's provision.

"Join in imitating me, brothers, and observe those who live according to the example you have in us. For I have often told you, and now say again with tears, that many live as enemies of the cross of Christ. Their end is destruction; their god is their emotions; their glory is in their shame. They are focused on earthly things." Philippians 3:17-19

Even in Paul's day, many rebelled against the Spirit of God. Yet, it was in the name of God, they did so!

Grace and truth....... GeneZ

 

[ahab]

Hi Genez,



No, I made the observation about Paul going on to talk about tongues after he writes about tongues and prophecy will cease. My point was that I disagree with you if you are saying we see fully now.



Well we will just have to disagree on this because I think you have missed it.

I see it as …

In chapter 12 Paul outlines different kinds of gifts, but the same Spirit gives to each one just as He determines, the message of wisdom, message of knowledge, faith, gifts of healing, miraculous powers, prophecy, distinguishing between spirits, speaking in different kinds of tongues, and to still another the interpretation of tongues. They are all for edification and building the church. Paul describes how all the parts make the whole. Paul then writes that in the church God has appointed apostles, prophets, teachers, workers of miracles, those having gifts of healing, those able to help others, those with gifts of administration, and those speaking in different kinds of tongues. I see that he makes no distinction. Then Paul says desire the greater gifts and in chapter 13 Paul writes about love that endures whereas prophecy, tongues, faith and giving will cease. Paul also indicates that prophecy, tongues faith and giving are no use without love. In chapter 14 Paul starts with” Follow the way of love and eagerly desire spiritual gifts, especially the gift of prophecy” He then devotes time to prophecy and tongues and why prophecy is more beneficial than tongues, then he writes about order in worship concerning hymns, words of instruction, revelations, tongues, interpretation. All of these must be done for the strengthening of the church.

I get the impression that tongues are common in church but Paul would have prophesy more common but these gifts are what we should eagerly desire. Paul finishes the chapter with instructions not to forbid speaking in tongues.

I see nothing temporary in tongues and prophecy except that they will cease when we see fully. In fact the attention Paul gives to tongues and prophecy may be down to the fact that they are spirtuaI gifts to be eagerly desired but tongues is common and prophecy is better. I agree with you that we will not need prophecy or evangelists in heaven.



As far as we know Jesus never spoke in tongues, yet he said that we would speak in tongues, He claimed He spoke the words of the Father. Paul says we speak in tongues. Jesus 'walked' iin the Spirit, and so did Paul and Paul describes the gift of the Spirit of tongues. So I might suggest that you are remaining as a child, you can receive the gift if you ask and want it.



IMO test the spirits indeed to see if they are from God. The Holy Spirit agrees with the word. Tongues is a gift of the Holy Spirit.



You are correct that Jesus says that not all who say "Lord, Lord!" However, our salvation isn’t dependent on whether we can speak in tongues or not, nor IMO is our reward in heaven based on our ability to speak in tongues. I dont see it as a primary doctrine to divide Christians. Your argument seems to based on whether tongues has ceased or not but then you write about testing the Spirit. Just one other thing, if tongues isnt of the Holy Spirit, then what is it of? Do you cast it out? Jesus says that His disciples will cast out demons and speak in new tongues.

 

[GenemZ]

Hi Genez,



No, I made the observation about Paul going on to talk about tongues after he writes about tongues and prophecy will cease. My point was that I disagree with you if you are saying we see fully now.

I am not saying we see fully now. That was simply an illustration given by Paul to show how we have in life immaturity at first which is leading to completion (perfection). Am I saying we are all children? Thinking like children? Awaiting to grow up and put away our childish ways of thinking? No, I did not. But, it was also used by Paul to illustrate the process of growing into perfection. Those were illustrations to make a point.

If prophecy were for today? Why does Peter indicate it will no longer be with us? After all, Peter read Paul's letters. He tells us so, in 2 Peter 3:16-18.

"He (Paul) writes the same way in all his letters, speaking in them of these matters. His letters contain some things that are hard to understand, which ignorant and unstable people distort, as they do the other Scriptures, to their own destruction.

Therefore, dear friends, since you already know this, be on your guard so that you may not be carried away by the error of lawless men and fall from your secure position. But grow in the grace and knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. To him be glory both now and forever! Amen." niv

Peter read Paul's letter about tongues and prophecy coming to an end.

"Love never fails. But where there are prophecies, they will cease; where there are tongues, they will be stilled; where there is knowledge, it will pass away." 1 Corinthians 13:8

That is why Peter wrote the following!

"But there were also false prophets among the people, just as there will be false teachers among you." 2 Peter 2:1a niv

If the gift of prophet was to continue through the Church age, Peter would have said that there would be false prophets amongst the future Church. Instead, Peter replaces prophets with false teachers being amongst the future Church. Why? Peter knew that the gift of prophet was to cease. He understood Paul's letter. Do you?

"But there were also false prophets among the people, just as there will be false teachers among you."

Paul tells us clearly that the gift of prophecy was much more important than the gift of tongues. If we can know that the gift of prophecy ended, why should tongues remain? They were both to come to an end.

What more can I say? Either you get it.... or you can't. So far, you refuse!

"But there were also false prophets among the people, just as there will be false teachers among you." 2 Peter 2:1a niv


Grace and truth, GeneZ

 

[SumTinWong]

I posted this in the Baptist forum might as well post here for you all as well. Most of us can agree that the Reverand Billy Graham is a man of God. This is a brief excerpt of what he has to say of this in his book, "The Holy Spirit".

While I do not pose as an expert on the subject of tongues, my opinions have come from my study of the Bible and from my experience and coversations with many people. Of one thing I'm certain: neither the Holy Spirit nor any of His gifts were given to divide believers. This does not mean that we ought not have our own opinions about what the Bible teaches on tongues. Or that we should not have local congregations in which prominence is given to tongues as well as those in which tongues are not prominent. But I am certain about one thing: when the gift of tongues is abused and becomes divisive, then something has gone wrong. Sin has come into the body of Christ...

Indeed, tongues is a gift of the Spirit. Today there are Presbyterians, Baptists, Anglicans, Lutherans, and Methodists, as well as Pentecostals, who speak or have spoken in tongues-or who have not, and expect to.

But if tongues is a gift of the Holy Spirit, it cannot be divisive in itself. When those who speak in tongues misuse it so that it becomes divisive, it indicates a lack of love. And those who forbid it do the Church a disservice because tehy appear to be contradicting the teaching of teh apostle Paul. Those believers who do speak in tongues and those who do not should love each other and work for the greater glory of God in the evangelization of the world, remembering one thing: those who speak in tongues and those who do not will live with each other in the New Jerusalem.

Is this a gift God has seen fit to give you? Don't let it be a source of pride or preoccupation. Become grounded in the whole Word of God. And above all learn what it means to love others, including believers who do not agree with your emphasis.

Is this a gift you do not have? Don't let it preoccupy you either, and don't let it be a source of division between you and other believers if at all possible. There may be other believers who have a different emphasis from you, but they are still your brothers and sisters in Christ.

The emphasis that was in the text was his. The spelling errors are mine as I typed it all out.

 

[truthquest]

Ok here is the deal with speaking in tongues. The apostles needed to get their message across to a multitude of people who spoke different languages. "Speaking in tongues" was simply allowing the apostles to be understood no matter what language the listener was speaking. They would hear the Christian message in their own language. After Christianity spread there was no need for "speaking in tongues" when all the nations could receive the gospel in their own language(tongue). Paul even said that it was no longer necessary to speak in tongues.

So why do people claim to do it today? Do they not understand that speaking in tongues was simply speaking in languages that people would understand? What is the purpose of speaking in tongues in this day and age? There is no purpose. Speaking jibberish is NOT speaking in tongues. If they are speaking an ancient language then it could easily be put to the test by experts and declared a modern miracle. I haven't seen that claim yet. Does one say the purpose of speaking in tongues is to show who has the Holy Spirit? I'd be very wary of any who makes this claim. That would be the sin of pride to claim that one has the Holy Spirit and others don't just because said person "speaks in tongues". If I'm missing something then what is the modern day purpose for speaking in tongues?

Brian

 

[GenemZ]

I posted this in the Baptist forum might as well post here for you all as well. Most of us can agree that the Reverand Billy Graham is a man of God. This is a brief excerpt of what he has to say of this in his book, "The Holy Spirit".

The emphasis that was in the text was his. The spelling errors are mine as I typed it all out.

All due respect to Billy Graham, but he also said that there was religious freedom in Communist Russia. He did not quote one passage to justify his stand. If you do not look at the Bible and see what it says, his words sound good to those who do not wish to learn what the Bible really says. It is a... "why don't we all just get along,".... way of thinking. Jesus did not come to bring that kind of thinking. Just the opposite!

"But whoever disowns me before men, I will disown him before my Father in heaven.
"Do not suppose that I have come to bring peace to the earth. I did not come to bring peace, but a sword. For I have come to turn
" 'a man against his father,
a daughter against her mother,
a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law--" Matthew 10:33-35 niv

And, when someone sticks to the truth, and stands on one side of that sword? The other accuses him of not being loving. We are to love the Lord before all else. He is the Word made flesh! Those we find standing there with us, loving the Lord, we can be free to love in harmony. Jesus came to divide and separate the closest of human relations where ever his Word is compromised.

"But whoever disowns me before men, I will disown him before my Father in heaven.
"Do not suppose that I have come to bring peace to the earth. I did not come to bring peace, but a sword. For I have come to turn
" 'a man against his father,
a daughter against her mother,
a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law--"

Billy Graham compromised with what the Word teaches as to remove that sword. God wants separation where truth is compromised. God wants contrast to be seen in lives of those who do not compromise. Those who do not make excuses and spin the Word in their flesh's favor.

So be it.... Grace and peace, GeneZ

 

[SumTinWong]

My old man tells me that we know Christians by the fruits of their labor. I would honestly bow to this man's knowledge of the subject of he Bible as he has made his whole life a living sacrafice to God.

Jesus also said:
Mark 9:50 "Salt is good: but if the salt have lost his saltness, wherewith will ye season it? Have salt in yourselves, and have peace one with another."
John 14:27 "Peace I leave with you, my peace I give unto you: not as the world giveth, give I unto you. Let not your heart be troubled, neither let it be afraid."
Matthew 5:9 "Blessed are the peacemakers: for they shall be called the children of God."

Then there is Peter:
Acts 10:36 "The word which God sent unto the children of Israel, preaching peace by Jesus Christ: (he is Lord of all"

And Paul:
Romans 8:6 "For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace."
Romans 10:15 "And how shall they preach, except they be sent? as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things!"
Galatians 5:22-23 "But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, 23 Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law."

Trying to pursue peace between Christian brothers is not a compromise of the Word of God it is in keeping with the Gospel itself.

 

[Archangel]

i recently spoke with a guy who said that he has spoken in tongues before and has had a few prophetic dreams. i have no reason not to believe him, so i couldn't help but be amazed. i've only been christian for about a year and ive never heard of anyone actually speaking in tongues. this is an awesome discovery for me though. what do you guys think? have any of you here ever spoken in tongues? i certainly never have, but i would love nothing more that to come to a point in my relationship with god where i would speak in tongues. this subject really amazes me. any insight or accounts of you or people you know speaking in tongues?

Hey there. The gift of tongues is a gift that God provides for certain individuals. On the body of Christ we have many different members with many different gifts. Tongues is just another gift of the spirit. It is to be used with interpretation so that the whole body can be edified [1 Corinthians 14]

We cannot however, conjure up God to give us a gift of tongues just as we can't conjure him to give us a gift in teaching. Are all teachers? Are all prophets?

Too many people wrongly believe that everyone can have a gift in tongues. There is nowhere that says that in the bible. [if anyone disagrees show me the passages and your interpreation of them]

Nowadays many will profess to speaking in tongues, but this is not so. Many simply have learned the tongues, and a gift cannot be learned, it is GOD GIVEN! There are three sources tongues, or any gift from that matter come from. God, Man or Demonic. God given are given by God, in other words, GOD gives the gift to who he chooses, it cannot be given cause people want it. Man, man can pretend he has the gift, because he wants to feel the emotional experience. Or demonic, yes satanists, and witches can speak in demonic tongues, ever been to a satanic gathering? well youll find people that speak in weird "spirity" languages.

Don't marvel at a gift, marvel at the gift giver. If you dont speak in tongues thats ok, I dont, nor do I profess to. Speaking in tongues doesnt mean you are any closer to God. There is no second blessing or experience we must recieve in order to be 100% fully functional Christians, that is a satanic lie to make Christians feel that they cannot get close to God.

Simple, Jesus died for our sins, we are forgiven! He has given us his word and prayer to come close to him with. God may also decide to reveal himself throgh prophecy, or tongues, or visions or dreams, etc. Yes I have seen visions and had dreams but i dont concentrate on those experiences, instead focus on Gods word, apply it to yoru life and live it!

 

[(Omega)]

I Have been to many churches whereas individual members are speaking in tongues with no interpretors at all which is in direct violation to the Word of God. The Church in Corinth displayed the same attitude. Many are mislead by the assumption that speaking in tongues is a sure sign of baptism of the Holy Spirit, baptism of the holy Spirit occurs at the believers conversion. At the pentecost many spoke in tongues who were gentiles, and this was a sign that Salvation was now given unto all such as gentiles and not only Jews!

God Bless!

 

[GenemZ]

Trying to pursue peace between Christian brothers is not a compromise of the Word of God it is in keeping with the Gospel itself.

It is a compromise when they follow another spirit..... The spirit they follow will be revealed in what Truth they have received. All those nice behavioral aspects you mentioned concerning men, would make Christian despising Ghandi at the head of the table you eat from.

"I urge you, brothers, to watch out for those who cause divisions and put obstacles in your way that are contrary to the doctrine you have learned. Keep away from them." Romans 16:17

Jesus came to bring a sword, not peace. The only peace one can have is finding likeminded believers who are also being led of the Spirit and walking in Truth. Today, if you desire never to compromise with Truth, that can be a difficult task.

"For the time will come when men will not put up with sound doctrine. Instead, to suit their own desires, they will gather around them a great number of teachers to say what their itching ears want to hear." 2 Timothy 4:3 niv

Would you have a harmonious peace with such as those mentioned? Having itching ears to hear the Word taught as they want to believe it to be? They deny Christ when they do that.

"I urge you, brothers, to watch out for those who cause divisions and put obstacles in your way that are contrary to the doctrine you have learned. Keep away from them." Romans 16:17

Note: "Keep away from them."

I will stick with the Word. Not those who will fight and spin to defend tongues. Witches speak in tongues. Tabetian monks speak in tongues. Are they filled with the Holy Spirit, too? Ancient Greek and Roman cults had members speaking in tongues. Think! God's Word is warning us! Not wanting us to make excuses and to live by human goodness, instead of God's goodness, and look the other way as others seek the destruction of their spiritual lives given to us as a gift from God. Satan is out to steal and rob. He's suckered a good number of the body of Christ. When they lose, I lose. For we are all parts of the same body. Who wants a paralyzed hand?

Grace and Truth... and not going to budge.

GeneZ

 

[(Omega)]

Hi there GeneZ i'm new here and am trying to get aquainted with everyone I come across so that people on this forum will be United as one.

God Bless and see you around the Forums BIC!

 

[OrthodoxyUSA]

Hi there GeneZ i'm new here and am trying to get aquainted with everyone I come across so that people on this forum will be United as one.

God Bless and see you around the Forums BIC!

Best of luck to you!

NO PUN INTENDED

Forgive me...

 

[GenemZ]

Hi there GeneZ i'm new here and am trying to get aquainted with everyone I come across so that people on this forum will be United as one.

God Bless and see you around the Forums BIC!

What should we be united in? Truth? Or, something else? Can you have love without having truth?

"The elder, To my dear friend Gaius, whom I love in the truth."3 John 1:1 niv

Unity comes from having the same thinking.

"I appeal to you, brothers, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that all of you agree with one another so that there may be no divisions among you and that you may be perfectly united in mind and thought." 1 Corinthians 1:10 niv

You can not have unity without agreement on truth. If you had your way, would you want all apostates who believe in Christ to be one with you?

"If you have any encouragement from being united with Christ, if any comfort from his love, if any fellowship with the Spirit, if any tenderness and compassion, then make my joy complete by being like-minded, having the same love, being one in spirit and purpose." Philippians 2:1-2 niv

You can not have unity with everyone believing as they please no matter what the Bible tells us is the Truth. If we are ever to have unity, Truth must be established first. If there are divisions on what is truth, there can be no unity.

People can be united in hatred.

People can be united in self love.

People can be united in Truth.

Without Truth, there is no love. Not God's love. Men will be lovers of self, of their own opinions. They can form mutual admiration societys with themselves, and have unity. But, God's love will not be made manifest amongst them. They will approve of one another, and call it God's love.

Only Truth (sound doctrine) is the foundation for God's love.

"For the time will come when men will not put up with sound doctrine. Instead, to suit their own desires, they will gather around them a great number of teachers to say what their itching ears want to hear."
2 Timothy 4:3 niv

Unity is not something to stive for. The Truth, is. Those who accept Truth will find unity without striving.

Jesus, said......

"They are not of the world, even as I am not of it. Sanctify them by the truth; your Word is Truth." John 17:16-17 niv

If the Word tells us that tongues are not for today? You will still want unity with those who rebel against what the Word says? What sense is there having unity, then? Be one with those working against the Spirit, while saying that they are of the Spirit? That's not wise!

Grace in truth....... GeneZ

 

[herev]

Hi there GeneZ i'm new here and am trying to get aquainted with everyone I come across so that people on this forum will be United as one.

God Bless and see you around the Forums BIC!

Be careful, you can get slammed for trying to reach out in love to the wrong crowd. as you will see--no good deed goes unpunished. But, from me--

See you around
Tommy

 

[herev]

oops, sorry I was too late to warn you!!!!

and it wasn't a bad thought--you can also be united in love: Colossians 2:1-5
1I want you to know how much I am struggling for you and for those at Laodicea, and for all who have not met me personally. 2My purpose is that they may be encouraged in heart and united in love, so that they may have the full riches of complete understanding, in order that they may know the mystery of God, namely, Christ, 3in whom are hidden all the treasures of wisdom and knowledge. 4I tell you this so that no one may deceive you by fine-sounding arguments. 5For though I am absent from you in body, I am present with you in spirit and delight to see how orderly you are and how firm your faith in Christ is.