Some questions about the Bidens’ 1977 Catholic wedding

[Michie]

“I thought the fact that Jill was married before had no relevance,” said Joe Biden shortly after being married to Jill, a divorcee, at the UN Chapel on June 17, 1977.

For quite some time, I have been puzzled about the relative silence regarding the nuptials of Joe and Jill Biden, especially since President Biden has told us repeatedly that he is a devout, practicing Catholic.

In Where the Light Enters: Building a Family, Discovering Myself (2019), Jill’s autobiography, we learn that she and Joe were married at the UN Chapel on June 17, 1977—and, she says, “by a Catholic priest.”

That factoid caused further puzzlement: Why get married at the UN? Neither of the Bidens had any apparent connection to that institution. Given that Joe has been a “priest-collector” his whole life, why go to New York to be married by an anonymous priest? Was he even a priest in good standing? After all, some ex-priests make a handsome living out of performing weddings.

Online searches for information on the UN Chapel turns up an article about it in the New York Times from May 9, 1976 (“UN Chapel Weddings: Ecumenical Spirit”). The chaplain was a Rev. Dr. Melvin Hawthorne, a minister of the United Methodist Church. He says that the chapel does not have an actual relationship with the United Nations, but that many people associated with the UN do opt for his chapel. In 1976, the chapel was the site of over 400 weddings, 60% of which were for couples of different faiths, many of whom had “run into snags elsewhere.”

So, what might the “snags” have been for the devout Catholic Joe Biden and his fiancee? A number of permissions would have been needed (e.g., mixed marriage since Jill is not Catholic; permission to marry outside a church or oratory). Did they participate in the required pre-nuptial investigation, which should have uncovered that Jill was previously married in February 1970 and divorced in March 1975?

Continued below.

Some questions about the Bidens’ 1977 Catholic wedding

www.catholicworldreport.com

 

[chevyontheriver]

“I thought the fact that Jill was married before had no relevance,” said Joe Biden shortly after being married to Jill, a divorcee, at the UN Chapel on June 17, 1977.

For quite some time, I have been puzzled about the relative silence regarding the nuptials of Joe and Jill Biden, especially since President Biden has told us repeatedly that he is a devout, practicing Catholic.

In Where the Light Enters: Building a Family, Discovering Myself (2019), Jill’s autobiography, we learn that she and Joe were married at the UN Chapel on June 17, 1977—and, she says, “by a Catholic priest.”

That factoid caused further puzzlement: Why get married at the UN? Neither of the Bidens had any apparent connection to that institution. Given that Joe has been a “priest-collector” his whole life, why go to New York to be married by an anonymous priest? Was he even a priest in good standing? After all, some ex-priests make a handsome living out of performing weddings.

Online searches for information on the UN Chapel turns up an article about it in the New York Times from May 9, 1976 (“UN Chapel Weddings: Ecumenical Spirit”). The chaplain was a Rev. Dr. Melvin Hawthorne, a minister of the United Methodist Church. He says that the chapel does not have an actual relationship with the United Nations, but that many people associated with the UN do opt for his chapel. In 1976, the chapel was the site of over 400 weddings, 60% of which were for couples of different faiths, many of whom had “run into snags elsewhere.”

So, what might the “snags” have been for the devout Catholic Joe Biden and his fiancee? A number of permissions would have been needed (e.g., mixed marriage since Jill is not Catholic; permission to marry outside a church or oratory). Did they participate in the required pre-nuptial investigation, which should have uncovered that Jill was previously married in February 1970 and divorced in March 1975?

Continued below.

Some questions about the Bidens’ 1977 Catholic wedding

www.catholicworldreport.com

I don't see a definitive answer from any Catholic diocesan archive coming ever on this one. Joe gets a pass.

 

[WarriorAngel]

“I thought the fact that Jill was married before had no relevance,” said Joe Biden shortly after being married to Jill, a divorcee, at the UN Chapel on June 17, 1977.

For quite some time, I have been puzzled about the relative silence regarding the nuptials of Joe and Jill Biden, especially since President Biden has told us repeatedly that he is a devout, practicing Catholic.

In Where the Light Enters: Building a Family, Discovering Myself (2019), Jill’s autobiography, we learn that she and Joe were married at the UN Chapel on June 17, 1977—and, she says, “by a Catholic priest.”

That factoid caused further puzzlement: Why get married at the UN? Neither of the Bidens had any apparent connection to that institution. Given that Joe has been a “priest-collector” his whole life, why go to New York to be married by an anonymous priest? Was he even a priest in good standing? After all, some ex-priests make a handsome living out of performing weddings.

Online searches for information on the UN Chapel turns up an article about it in the New York Times from May 9, 1976 (“UN Chapel Weddings: Ecumenical Spirit”). The chaplain was a Rev. Dr. Melvin Hawthorne, a minister of the United Methodist Church. He says that the chapel does not have an actual relationship with the United Nations, but that many people associated with the UN do opt for his chapel. In 1976, the chapel was the site of over 400 weddings, 60% of which were for couples of different faiths, many of whom had “run into snags elsewhere.”

So, what might the “snags” have been for the devout Catholic Joe Biden and his fiancee? A number of permissions would have been needed (e.g., mixed marriage since Jill is not Catholic; permission to marry outside a church or oratory). Did they participate in the required pre-nuptial investigation, which should have uncovered that Jill was previously married in February 1970 and divorced in March 1975?

Continued below.

Some questions about the Bidens’ 1977 Catholic wedding

www.catholicworldreport.com

As I am reading it all I am like.. what wait?
That's not possible especially in the 70's.
So how?
The UN? Not a Church?

So I checked it out..
Dr. Hawthorne, head of the Southern Baptist office in the Center, as chaplain performs many of the nondenominational, “ecumenical” marriage ceremonies. But the chapel has a pool of clergy—Catholic priests, rabbis, cantors, Hindu pundits, Islamic sheiks—who will perform interfaith services, though many religions do not allow them.

See here

 

[WarriorAngel]

So they used a Baptist Reverend and not even a Catholic priest.

 

[chevyontheriver]

So they used a Baptist Reverend and not even a Catholic priest.

Nobody but Joe and Jill would seem to know. Catholic weddings are PUBLIC things. Thus the Banns and thus the witnesses and the requirements of canon law and annulments and all. Anyone can crash the wedding, even though they aren't supposed to crash the reception. Anyone can see the records of these weddings, or at least a summary of them. There ARE records kept in parish offices of all Catholic weddings. Outside of a parish record, there is no way to know. And the parish that includes the UN building has no record of it. So all we have is Joe and Jill saying so.

Might be a Baptist minister, might be a kicked out and irregular rented Catholic priest, might be a sub rosa wedding by a real priest with real faculties, might be legit. I'm doubting the latter because there would be records. But maybe some records will turn up.

OK. There have always been some rare weddings that have been secret, full of political intrigue, things to accommodate folks like Romeo and Juliet. No reason for that with Biden. What I suspect went on in this case was the roadblock of a previous valid marriage, so they used an end run around the canonical process.

 

[WarriorAngel]

Nobody but Joe and Jill would seem to know. Catholic weddings are PUBLIC things. Thus the Banns and thus the witnesses and the requirements of canon law and annulments and all. Anyone can crash the wedding, even though they aren't supposed to crash the reception. Anyone can see the records of these weddings, or at least a summary of them. There ARE records kept in parish offices of all Catholic weddings. Outside of a parish record, there is no way to know. And the parish that includes the UN building has no record of it. So all we have is Joe and Jill saying so.

Might be a Baptist minister, might be a kicked out and irregular rented Catholic priest, might be a sub rosa wedding by a real priest with real faculties, might be legit. I'm doubting the latter because there would be records. But maybe some records will turn up.

OK. There have always been some rare weddings that have been secret, full of political intrigue, things to accommodate folks like Romeo and Juliet. No reason for that with Biden. What I suspect went on in this case was the roadblock of a previous valid marriage, so they used an end run around the canonical process.

Did someone post it was Jills book that led to the understanding it was Rev Hawthorne?
or the records as such?
Nevertheless; records show Rev Hawthorne was a Baptist.
Despite having access for priests to accommodate weddings, Hawthorne himself was not Catholic.

They married by a protestant rev and how do they state he is a practicing Catholic.
Either
A: His catechesis was awful or absent altogether.
or
B: he is indifferent to the facts.
C: he is arrogant.
AND finally, his marriage is not valid in the Church since: no records, no permission known to go to the UN.
Married by a Reverend of the Baptist church, no annulment and or no disparity of cult, and the list goes on I am so sure.

 

[chevyontheriver]

Did someone post it was Jills book that led to the understanding it was Rev Hawthorne?
or the records as such?
Nevertheless; records show Rev Hawthorne was a Baptist.
Despite having access for priests to accommodate weddings, Hawthorne himself was not Catholic.

They married by a protestant rev and how do they state he is a practicing Catholic.
Either
A: His catechesis was awful or absent altogether.
or
B: he is indifferent to the facts.
C: he is arrogant.
AND finally, his marriage is not valid in the Church since: no records, no permission known to go to the UN.
Married by a Reverend of the Baptist church, no annulment and or no disparity of cult, and the list goes on I am so sure.

(A or B) and C.

Maybe more will come out. I don't particularly care, but it might help to explain the pro-abortion 'faithful' 'practicing' 'Catholic'.

 

[Valletta]

I don't see a definitive answer from any Catholic diocesan archive coming ever on this one. Joe gets a pass.

The quote from the article, if accurate:

“I thought the fact that Jill was married before had no relevance,” said Joe Biden shortly after being married to Jill, a divorcee, at the UN Chapel on June 17, 1977

would mean that almost certainly it is not a valid Catholic marriage. An annulment process must take place for any previous marriage. A marriage is presumed valid unless proven otherwise. So Jill would have needed to go through a lengthy process with witnesses that would likely take over a year. As the only Catholic in the marriage Joe would have had to have been aware of the process, which would have been explained to both by a priest. Joe would not be allowed to move forward with the marriage, or even date her, until her first marriage had been annuled. Although extremely rare, a Catholic marriage can be done without the presence of a Catholic priest, there would have to have been special circumstances presented and special permission given.

 

[chevyontheriver]

The quote from the article, if accurate:

“I thought the fact that Jill was married before had no relevance,” said Joe Biden shortly after being married to Jill, a divorcee, at the UN Chapel on June 17, 1977

would mean that almost certainly it is not a valid Catholic marriage. An annulment process must take place for any previous marriage. A marriage is presumed valid unless proven otherwise. So Jill would have needed to go through a lengthy process with witnesses that would likely take over a year. As the only Catholic in the marriage Joe would have had to have been aware of the process, which would have been explained to both by a priest. Joe would not be allowed to move forward with the marriage, or even date her, until her first marriage had been annuled. Although extremely rare, a Catholic marriage can be done without the presence of a Catholic priest, there would have to have been special circumstances presented and special permission given.

Joe was never the brightest lightbulb in the house. He may have been oblivious. Or he may have had people manage the whole thing for him so he never needed to pay attention. But it seems more and more likely to me that he isn’t canonically married. I could expand but this is a matter for his pastor and his bishop and not me. He’s old enough that God will get to sort it out soon enough. Here’s where we pray for his soul.

 

[Valletta]

Joe was never the brightest lightbulb in the house. He may have been oblivious. Or he may have had people manage the whole thing for him so he never needed to pay attention. But it seems more and more likely to me that he isn’t canonically married. I could expand but this is a matter for his pastor and his bishop and not me. He’s old enough that God will get to sort it out soon enough. Here’s where we pray for his soul.

Not that he is a beacon of truth, but the quotation makes it sound like he was oblivious. For a Catholic to live in marriage with someone they are not married to in the eyes of God is a public scandal.

 

[chevyontheriver]

Not that he is a beacon of truth, but the quotation makes it sound like he was oblivious. For a Catholic to live in marriage with someone they are not married to in the eyes of God is a public scandal.

Oblivious? I sometimes think so. But is he oblivious in his abortion position? Could he possibly be THAT oblivious?

I know sin makes a person stupid. It is an almost ironclad spiritual law.

 

[WarriorAngel]

You probably lose ignorance and become fully responsible IF you're making headlines [from fiction] stating you had a meeting with the Pope [yet did not] and he is ok with receiving Communion despite pro abortion.

 

[chevyontheriver]

You probably lose ignorance and become fully responsible IF you're making headlines [from fiction] stating you had a meeting with the Pope [yet did not] and he is ok with receiving Communion despite pro abortion.

There are pictures of Joe and Jill Biden with pope Francis. AND when Joe Biden discussed that meeting with the press NOBODY from the Vatican said ANYTHING otherwise than what Joe Biden said. What Joe Biden said was accurate enough for pope Francis.