Some employees upset with employer for taking payroll protection loan--make more on unemployment.

tall73

Sophia7's husband
Site Supporter
Sep 23, 2005
32,123
5,896
Visit site
✟886,433.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
She got a forgivable loan. Her employees hate her for it.

The anger came from employees who’d determined they’d make more money by collecting unemployment benefits than their normal paychecks.

I couldn’t believe it. On what planet am I competing with unemployment?

Specifically, the new law adds a flat $600 a week to the typical weekly benefits paid by one’s state.

But some, especially lower-wage workers, can come out ahead. Lawmakers were aware of the dynamic, yet felt the formula’s simplicity would get money out to people faster.

“They were [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse]ed I’d take this opportunity away from them to make more for my own selfish greed to pay rent,” she said.



My understanding from when this was passed was that the software they were using was not flexible enough to make a more sane system. Still, this is hardly helpful if you are running a business and have to choose between your own business needs and upsetting your workers who could get more by not working.

It also sends a poor message to essential workers who are taking on extra risk while seeing people making more than one hundred percent of their income to not work, or take on such risks.


Old software is also slowing the enrollment of newly eligible workers on the state level:

Self-Employed And Gig Workers Face Long Waits For Coronavirus Relief Checks

Meanwhile, state agencies say a large part of what is causing the technology problems leading to delays is the avalanche of newly eligible applicants that have overwhelmed existing systems. The crush of calls and online applications have proved to be too much for understaffed call centers and outdated benefit programs running on old software.


Restaurants’ bailout problem: Unemployment pays more

The new Paycheck Protection Program waives repayment of small business loans if the borrower uses 75 percent of the money to maintain payroll, a measure intended to reduce layoffs. But with the expanded unemployment benefits included in the stimulus bill, some workers can as much as double their weekly checks if they stay unemployed.

Unemployment benefits vary by state, but in 2019, before the coronavirus crisis, the average weekly benefit nationwide was $370. A $600 sweetener that the stimulus bill added, on a temporary basis, to weekly unemployment checks raises the average weekly benefit to $970, an amount that approximates average weekly pay nationwide and is nearly double average weekly pay within the food industry: about $500 nationwide for full-time workers.

Paycheck Protection loans cover payroll expenses for eight weeks, a time frame that many small business owners judge too short as the scope of the pandemic widens. Some owners are reluctant to accept the money at all, uncertain how they will repay the loan if their workers won’t consent to come back within the prescribed window. Unemployment benefits, meanwhile, have been extended 13 additional weeks. Even the $600 sweetener, guaranteed until July 31, will last weeks longer than a paycheck protection loan.

Small business advocates and some members of Congress say the U.S. should adopt a European-style grant program that gives direct payments — not loans — to businesses. The Tory government in Britain pays business owners 80 percent of their workers’ wages to keep them on payroll, up to a monthly cap of 2,500 pounds. France, Spain and the Netherlands have taken similar steps, and Germany’s “Kurzarbeitergeld” system of paid furloughs is credited with helping the economy snap back from the Great Recession faster than other European nations. But such ideas have little traction in the current political environment.
 

Messerve

Well-Known Member
Sep 30, 2018
1,381
1,060
hjkhjkh
✟25,910.00
Country
United States
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Private
It's an issue causing division where I work. Some are unable to work right now but have not been laid off. So they don't make much at all. Others are able to keep working. But all of us could make more if we were temporarily laid off... So there's some anger toward the employers, because were ordered closed and we didn't.

It's a mess, pure and simple.
 
  • Agree
Reactions: tall73
Upvote 0

tall73

Sophia7's husband
Site Supporter
Sep 23, 2005
32,123
5,896
Visit site
✟886,433.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
We had an earlier thread where a business owner was trying to decide whether to take a loan. My son works in a blue collar field which to my thinking is on the border of essential, but managed to get permission. But most of the similar businesses in the area closed.

I suppose he could make more money on unemployment. He would rather work as he just got a promotion and wants to keep impressing the management.

However, there are clearly some tough decisions for the company. His company is picking up clients from those that closed. So if they make it through the pandemic without closing they may take business away long-term from other companies. And some of those that decided to close may never re-open.

The business may also need to pay building rent, maintain any loan re-payments, etc. so it is in their interest to take the loan.

Pitting the employees and employers against each other is a terrible idea during this crisis which is already impacting people's mental health.
 
  • Agree
Reactions: Messerve
Upvote 0

tall73

Sophia7's husband
Site Supporter
Sep 23, 2005
32,123
5,896
Visit site
✟886,433.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
because were ordered closed and we didn't.

Ouch, that is even worse. And what happens if someone comes down with it while working? At that point you have a major source of friction.

And of course, along with that you have the issue of health insurance for those who are now unemployed. There is the possibility that the government may pay for COBRA for those who lose their job. Right now I think that is a theoretical future stimulus suggestion. But you can't count on it. The $600 may seem attractive but if you have to pay for short-term health insurance, it may not even be enough to get you back to your state's rate. And what happens if, since it is a qualifying event, you go to the exchanges and get a new plan, or a short-term plan, then if they approve reimbursing COBRA you are out in the cold?

Or if you make too little even with the $600 would you go on state medicaid? And even that varies widely depending on whether your state expanded medicaid.

It is all a mess.
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

tall73

Sophia7's husband
Site Supporter
Sep 23, 2005
32,123
5,896
Visit site
✟886,433.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Let me get this straight people are getting more money being unemployed:doh:?

Yeah, nothing like a good disincentive for workers who are already having to calculate the risk of death during this pandemic.
 
  • Agree
Reactions: Goonie
Upvote 0

tall73

Sophia7's husband
Site Supporter
Sep 23, 2005
32,123
5,896
Visit site
✟886,433.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
I hope people were not planning on taking out a new credit card for groceries while they wait for their delayed unemployment checks:

Credit Cards Start Offering Lower Limits Amid U.S. Outbreak

Major U.S. credit-card issuers are starting to lower customer spending limits as the coronavirus pandemic leaves millions of Americans jobless and struggling to keep up on loans.

Discover Financial Services just became the largest lender yet to acknowledge it’s begun reining in lines of credit for new customers.

 
Upvote 0

Messerve

Well-Known Member
Sep 30, 2018
1,381
1,060
hjkhjkh
✟25,910.00
Country
United States
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Private
Ouch, that is even worse. And what happens if someone comes down with it while working? At that point you have a major source of friction.

And of course, along with that you have the issue of health insurance for those who are now unemployed. There is the possibility that the government may pay for COBRA for those who lose their job. Right now I think that is a theoretical future stimulus suggestion. But you can't count on it. The $600 may seem attractive but if you have to pay for short-term health insurance, it may not even be enough to get you back to your state's rate. And what happens if, since it is a qualifying event, you go to the exchanges and get a new plan, or a short-term plan, then if they approve reimbursing COBRA you are out in the cold?

Or if you make too little even with the $600 would you go on state medicaid? And even that varies widely depending on whether your state expanded medicaid.

It is all a mess.
Well the company grounds are closed to the public and social distancing measures and mask wearing are mandatory for the workers who are there. But then if that works, almost every business could have done the same thing and this economical crash would have been avoided largely...
 
Upvote 0