Solid State Battery (are we in the tribulation?)

[Pommer]

Right now he plans to build a town for the employees at SpaceX in Texas. I

We’ve already had “company towns”.

 

[Diamond7]

We’ve already had “company towns”.

Lots of them. We have a lot of homes in our area that were built by various manufactures for their employees. Actually, "boxable" homes are not new. Sears use to sell an affordable build it yourself home.

People need affordable housing and they need affordable transportation. The situation is not good now, but I see a time around 2030 when housing and transportation will once again become affordable.

 

[Desk trauma]

I see a time around 2030 when housing and transportation will once again become affordable.

Based on what?

 

[Diamond7]

What will cause the cost of materials and energy go down?

In this case, we are talking about solar panels and a battery pack. The cost of lithium is high and there are limited resources. Toyota would not even get into the EV market because of limited resources. But now we learn Toyota announced that its first vehicle to use solid-state batteries will go on sale by 2025. A year to build the factory in NC and a year to get it up and running. Toyota is a long-term company, when they go into production they want to continue production on that vehicle for the next 25 years or even longer. That will save money not having to retool and rebuild a plant for a new model car. I have friends that want to buy a new Toyota, but I am telling them to just wait for two years until the new EV models come out.

I thought the wave of the future was to build a home with a big 3D printer, but that does not seem to be panning out. Affordable homes may just be for the homeless and so they would be smaller and more basic. So they need a new material other than wood. They are working on this. Strong, durable and good insulation.

Musk wants to build on Mars so everything has to be able to fit in a shipping container. There is talk about fission instead of fission. Something the size of a semi that can power a whole city. Also, Musk is starting to say that hydrogen could become an option.

If you can put a whole city in a spaceship and ship it to Mars, then you can build anywhere on this planet.

 

[Hans Blaster]

We’ve already had “company towns”.

I goggled "company towns" (to find a few) and the second link was to a PBS page called "Slavery by another name". Perhaps Musk will name his company town Angola.

There's:

Wolfsburg, Pripyat, and other fun places.

 

[Desk trauma]

We’ve already had “company towns”.

But now the company store only takes dogecoin.

 

[Pommer]

Lots of them. We have a lot of homes in our area that were built by various manufactures for their employees. Actually, "boxable" homes are not new. Sears use to sell an affordable build it yourself home.

People need affordable housing and they need affordable transportation. The situation is not good now, but I see a time around 2030 when housing and transportation will once again become affordable.

While I am pretty sure that your premise could be correct and we are going to see this move to (much) smaller housing because we’re headed for a liquidity-crunch and there simply won’t be anything affordable to rent and who has the money to buy? Even the MEGA-RICH will only be “ultra-rich”.
Good times!
My mother saved balls of string and gumbands (rubber bands for yinz non-Steelers fans), and every bread tie wire because she was 14 when the Great Depression began, and knew what it was to have nothing.
Good times!

 

[Desk trauma]

In this case, we are talking about solar panels and a battery pack. The cost of lithium is high and there are limited resources. Toyota would not even get into the EV market because of limited resources. But now we learn Toyota announced that its first vehicle to use solid-state batteries will go on sale by 2025. A year to build the factory in NC and a year to get it up and running. Toyota is a long-term company, when they go into production they want to continue production on that vehicle for the next 25 years or even longer. That will save money not having to retool and rebuild a plant for a new model car. I have friends that want to buy a new Toyota, but I am telling them to just wait for two years until the new EV models come out.

I thought the wave of the future was to build a home with a big 3D printer, but that does not seem to be panning out. Affordable homes may just be for the homeless and so they would be smaller and more basic. So they need a new material other than wood. They are working on this. Strong, durable and good insulation.

Musk wants to build on Mars so everything has to be able to fit in a shipping container. There is talk about fission instead of fission. Something the size of a semi that can power a whole city. Also, Musk is starting to say that hydrogen could become an option.

If you can put a whole city in a spaceship and ship it to Mars, then you can build anywhere on this planet.

Ah, I see, wishful thinking and Musk magic.

 

[Diamond7]

Ah, I see, wishful thinking and Musk magic.

Yes, affordable housing and affordable transportation by 2030 is a Muck claim. Who said a chicken in every pot and a car in every garage? Was it Herbert Hoover or his party that promote the idea of prosperity and abundance?

 

[Diamond7]

(much) smaller housing

When people are homeless, even a van is better than nothing at all. Although I tried that once and did not make it for more than a month before I was ready to go to work and get a better place to live.

 

[Desk trauma]

Yes, affordable housing and affordable transportation by 2030 is a Muck claim. Who said a chicken in every pot and a car in every garage? Was it Herbert Hoover or his party that promote the idea of prosperity and abundance?

Yeah, not a great choice of president there…

 

[returnn23]

I thought this was about solid state batteries.

All-Solid-State Batteries - Solid Power

www.solidpowerbattery.com

 

[Diamond7]

I thought this was about solid state batteries.

It looks like Solid State Batteries brought Toyota into the EV market. There is just not enough lithium to supply the need because these cars need a lot of battery.

 

[SimplyMe]

In this case, we are talking about solar panels and a battery pack. The cost of lithium is high and there are limited resources. Toyota would not even get into the EV market because of limited resources. But now we learn Toyota announced that its first vehicle to use solid-state batteries will go on sale by 2025. A year to build the factory in NC and a year to get it up and running. Toyota is a long-term company, when they go into production they want to continue production on that vehicle for the next 25 years or even longer. That will save money not having to retool and rebuild a plant for a new model car. I have friends that want to buy a new Toyota, but I am telling them to just wait for two years until the new EV models come out.

I thought the wave of the future was to build a home with a big 3D printer, but that does not seem to be panning out. Affordable homes may just be for the homeless and so they would be smaller and more basic. So they need a new material other than wood. They are working on this. Strong, durable and good insulation.

Musk wants to build on Mars so everything has to be able to fit in a shipping container. There is talk about fission instead of fission. Something the size of a semi that can power a whole city. Also, Musk is starting to say that hydrogen could become an option.

If you can put a whole city in a spaceship and ship it to Mars, then you can build anywhere on this planet.

A quick correction, Toyota does make and sell an EV, the bZ4X. Sales began in the US last summer. They paused sales last year as they had issues with the car (wheels falling off) but resumed sales again in October. Toyota also produces the very similar Subaru Solterra.

 

[returnn23]

The demand for lithium will level off. Other battery formulas exist.

Meet the new batteries unlocking cheaper electric vehicles

A planned factory marks a major milestone in the US for new batteries that enable lower-cost, longer-lasting EVs.

www.technologyreview.com

AMTE Power agrees production contract with the UK Battery Industrialisation Centre for its Ultra High Power cells – AMTE Power

amtepower.com

 

[Valletta]

A quick correction, Toyota does make and sell an EV, the bZ4X. Sales began in the US last summer. They paused sales last year as they had issues with the car (wheels falling off) but resumed sales again in October. Toyota also produces the very similar Subaru Solterra.

But what if Joe is not president in two years and common sense conservatism at least influences government? The United States is not prepared to handle a sudden switchover to EVs. The power grid is not ready, the economy will be greatly damaged, the infrastructure is not ready, we are not prepared for the health problems and environmental damage the EVs will cause. EVs are far heavier than gas powered vehicles, the roads will wear out faster, the tires will wear out faster causing more particulates to be launched into our air, more bridges and parking ramps will collapse, and at least at the beginning our country will be at the mercy of foreign suppliers and supply chains. A new president might make the EV owners pay their fair share for roads and pollution.

 

[wing2000]

But what if Joe is not president in two years and common sense conservatism at least influences government? The United States is not prepared to handle a sudden switchover to EVs. The power grid is not ready, the economy will be greatly damaged, the infrastructure is not ready, we are not prepared for the health problems and environmental damage the EVs will cause. EVs are far heavier than gas powered vehicles, the roads will wear out faster, the tires will wear out faster causing more particulates to be launched into our air, more bridges and parking ramps will collapse, and at least at the beginning our country will be at the mercy of foreign suppliers and supply chains. A new president might make the EV owners pay their fair share for roads and pollution.

Naysayers had many of the same complaints about the car....

Alas, I'm still not getting the connection between EV's and the Tribulation....

 

[Valletta]

Naysayers had many of the same complaints about the car....

Alas, I'm still not getting the connection between EV's and the Tribulation....

Not really. I've pushed a Model T (uphill can be tough) and while it weighed more than one horse, two horses and a buggy weighed more. And it was not understood that the wearing down of tires contributed to so much pollution. At this point in time it is an environmental problem, an economic problem, AND the majority of what goes into making an EV will be handled by foreign nations. We will be at the mercy of other nations, especially China. Once cobalt and lithium both fall by the wayside AND the battery can be made FAR lighter AND other problems solved, such as a temporary charge when it runs out of electricity, AND we figure out how to handle overnight charging for the 40% of people who don't park in garages, AND upgrade our power grid then perhaps EVs can be the norm in the United States. With a savvy businessman running the project I think our U.S. power grid can be updated in ten years. Let's work on that while improvements for EVs can be developed.

 

[SimplyMe]

But what if Joe is not president in two years and common sense conservatism at least influences government?

I'm not sure what this has to do with my comment; I sincerely doubt Toyota developing or not developing an EV has anything to do with who is the US President, since they sell most of their EVs in countries other than th eUS.

The United States is not prepared to handle a sudden switchover to EVs.

I'm not aware that any "sudden switchover" is going to happen. I know some European car manufacturers are planning on transitioning by 2030, Ford and GM have set a goal to switch to EV only by 2035 -- none of those are a "sudden switchover", particularly as older ICE vehicles will remain on the road. There is also nothing claiming those vehicle manufacturers are going to hit those goals.

The power grid is not ready,

It's not as far away as some like to claim. This is particularly true since most EV's will be charged by their owners overnight, to be ready for use the next morning -- and overnight there is a lot of unused capacity in the electric grid. I'll agree that the power grid needs to be upgraded though it has been needing that regardless, this just adds incentive to actually get it done (rather than letting people in Texas freeze because they didn't learn previous lessons about upgrading the grid).

the economy will be greatly damaged, the infrastructure is not ready, we are not prepared for the health problems and environmental damage the EVs will cause. EVs are far heavier than gas powered vehicles, the roads will wear out faster,

Is this really true? Tell me, how much has the increase in pickups being sold across the US impacted wear and tear on our roads -- the average pickup weighs more than your average EV. I'd be interested to see where you've argued people need to start buying smaller cars and that we should maybe add usage fees on heavy pickup (light) trucks and SUVs because of the damage they are doing to the roads. Assuming you haven't, it would likely be safe to think that this is not a real concern of yours but something you read and are just parroting.

Yes, EVs will slightly increase the average weight of a vehicle. At the same time, the difference in what damage it might cause to roads is still nothing to what the damage by medium and heavy trucks are doing. If the average car does 1 damage; and an EV does 1.27 (not an actual number, just doing it for the comparison), about the same as a large SUV (in this case a Toyota Highlander); a full-size pickup will be at least 3.57 damage, and the Hummer EV (a truck few will actually buy) is around 21; but a large truck (18,000 lbs, about half the weight of an empty semi-truck) does 410, meaning semis are doing damage in the thousands. It's a concern, but not a major one.

So should we limit the size of automobiles and trucks sold in the US, or at least tax them much heavier based on the size of the vehicles (make large family SUVs taxed heavier due to their "excess" weight)?

the tires will wear out faster causing more particulates to be launched into our air, more bridges and parking ramps will collapse, and at least at the beginning our country will be at the mercy of foreign suppliers and supply chains.

As for tires, yes, weight is one thing that causes more wear along with temperature, tire hardness, inflation level, etc. You also start figuring that EVs typically use an "Eco" tire, which tends to be a harder compound tire, that typical EV wouldn't go through tires faster than average. As ever, the biggest factor in how fast tires are used comes down to the driver, the faster they accelerate, the faster they drive (how hot the tire gets), etc., is the largest factor in tire wear. So, if it is really a concern, we could have automakers "detune" (lower the amount of power going to the electric motors) to accelerate slower and limit the top speeds, if this is really a valid concern of your and not just some point you read off an EV hit piece but don't necessarily care about.

A new president might make the EV owners pay their fair share for roads and pollution.

What extra pollution? Yes, you listed a couple of things that could slightly increase -- though have never cared that the average size/weight of US cars and trucks have drastically increased over the last couple of decades. You likely also read "hit pieces" that try to compare the Hummer EV, or even a Ford F-150 Lightning, to something like the gasoline powered Toyota Corolla -- not quite a fair comparison.

You also ignore that the laws passed by this administration, such as the new EV tax credits, are based on batteries and other components being not just built in the US, but that the minerals used in making them are mined in the US or a free-trade partner (which eliminates minerals mined in China). And, as you point out, this is beyond the improvements being made in battery technology, like the LFP batteries Tesla has started using in some models -- where the cobalt is replaced by iron. Yet, if we limit the sale of EVs -- make them even more expensive than they are today -- then why do you think there will be a huge push, with a lot of money spent, to improve EVs, if you can't make money building them? A major reason we see so much of EV innovation coming out of Tesla is that they are the ones who benefit the most by improving the tech; making more efficient and lighter batteries and improving the charging abilities lowers the cost of manufacturing and makes their cars more desirable. And, as we've seen, as long as they are the one seriously invested in making EVs, they are the only ones with a real need and desire to improve EVs. The more the rest of the industry moves to EVs, the faster you will see the improvements you claim we so badly need.