What scriptures do Baptists use to support sola scriptura? I'm working on an assignment, and would love your help!
Sola Scriptura
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[font=Helv,Helvetica,Arial][size=+1]The Bible is the verbally and inerrant inspired Word of God
in its original Scripture and the sole authority in all matters of
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[font=Helv,Helvetica,Arial][size=+1]1 Corinthians 2:9-13 But as it is written, Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him. But God hath revealed them unto us by his Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God. For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God. Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God. Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.[/size][/font]
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[font=Helv,Helvetica,Arial][size=+1]2 Peter 1:19-21 We have also a more sure word of prophecy; whereunto ye do well that ye take heed, as unto a light that shineth in a dark place, until the day dawn, and the day star arise in your hearts: Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation. For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.[/size][/font]
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[font=Helv,Helvetica,Arial][size=+1]2 Timothy 3:16-17 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.
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in its original Scripture and the sole authority in all matters of
faith and practice. [/size][/font]
[font=Helv,Helvetica,Arial][size=+1][/size][/font]
[font=Helv,Helvetica,Arial][size=+1]1 Corinthians 2:9-13 But as it is written, Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him. But God hath revealed them unto us by his Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God. For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God. Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God. Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.[/size][/font]
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[font=Helv,Helvetica,Arial][size=+1][/size][/font]
[font=Helv,Helvetica,Arial][size=+1]2 Peter 1:19-21 We have also a more sure word of prophecy; whereunto ye do well that ye take heed, as unto a light that shineth in a dark place, until the day dawn, and the day star arise in your hearts: Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation. For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.[/size][/font]
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[font=Helv,Helvetica,Arial][size=+1][/size][/font]
[font=Helv,Helvetica,Arial][size=+1]2 Timothy 3:16-17 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.
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I just selected the two Pauline verses because it's for my Pauline class, which I forgot to mention. Please know too that I really am trying to understand, and so my questions are genuine.
So scripture is useful, certainly, but the only thing?
Are the parts that I bolded key here? Is it the detachment from the worldly that this verse is used?BT said:
Ah yes, one of my TMS verses!
So scripture is useful, certainly, but the only thing?
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No problem.clskinner said:
I added some bolding to point out the key parts as well
"As it is written"
"The things which God has prepared for them that love Him"
" even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God."
I would say that it is the detachment from the flesh (and the worldly) that prompts this verse to be used. Separating that which is from man, from that which is from God. In keeping with the idea that we no longer walk in the flesh but now in the Spirit. God sent "through the spirit" those things which are "of God" so that we might know them and speak no longer "words which man's widsom teacheth" but that "which the Holy Ghost teacheth".
The key in this verse is "that the man of God may be perfect". Since we realize that only the Scriptures are perfect and were given by God for this purpose we reason that there is no other thing required to "perfect us", and so the Bible is our sole authority.Ah yes, one of my TMS verses!
There are other examples.. I just posted some of the common ones. I think one of the most startling is found in the temptation of Christ. At every turn He replies with Scripture even so far as saying that men "shall live by every word that proceeds from the mouth of God". If we live by every word that proceeds from the mouth of God, or to say that our life is made up (living) by those things which proceed from the mouth of God, we again stand that the scriptures which are inspired (God breathed) are therefore our sole necessity and authority because we know that these things came directly from God for that very purpose. Now the natural inclination is for a person to say , "Yeah but he said 'man shall not live by bread alone'.. so in fact Christ was only resisting the temptation and showing that we live by other means as well." The pivot-point comes when we look at the fullness of the temptation and see that Christ rose above the flesh (as we are called to do) and lived only by the Word of God. Which He used to defend and strengthen Himself, it was all that was needed (the bread was refused), for Christ to "live". Christ then as our example shows us sola scriptura...
Clear as mud?
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Ok, that's where I thought it was going - separation of flesh & spirit. And so a Baptist would say that the only way in which the Holy Ghost can teach/speak (speak may be putting words into your mouth?) is through the Scriptures? This question actually speaks to the next verse as well - your "every word fthat proceeds from the mouth of God" example.BT said:
Huh, this isn't something I've heard before. But it's very interesting to me. Ah, that's for another day!
Something like that.Clear as mud?
I'm trying to work on a project for my class (due tomorrow, nonetheless), and it's rarely as simple as a verse or two (thankfully!).
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The primary way the Spirit speaks to us is through the written word of God. There are other ways, but each and every thing that we think the Spirit might be saying must be compared to the written word. If the "revelation" we think we have received contradicts scripture, then it is bogus, it is either our own desires speaking to us or it is erroneous thinking or it even could be of the devil. Nothing that does not match with the Bible is from God, nothing. The Bible is the complete revelation of God for us at this time and it doesn't need embellishment or augmentation.clskinner said:
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Do you have an insights to share, Glorianna? I'd be grateful for any contributions.Glorianna said:
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I know the Bible says the words, "word of God" 45 times, but it doesn't say "other commentaries" or "catechisms" even once!clskinner said:
Mark 7:13 says, "You cancel the effect of the word of God through your traditions which you have birthed, and many similar things, too."
It seems to me that Christ is saying NOT to make up traditions or follow cathechisms, but to do the word of God, because traditions and catechisms cancel the effect of the word of God, that is, they take the focus off following the teachings of Christ and put it on following the teachings of mere mortal men.
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I'm not looking to argue this with you, Lambslove. I'm looking for scriptures that show a Baptist's belief in sola scriptura. Where in the Sacred Texts does it say that the scriptures contain the entirety of God's revelation, per your statement above?lambslove said:I know the Bible says the words, "word of God" 45 times, but it doesn't say "other commentaries" or "catechisms" even once!
Mark 7:13 says, "You cancel the effect of the word of God through your traditions which you have birthed, and many similar things, too."
It seems to me that Christ is saying NOT to make up traditions or follow cathechisms, but to do the word of God, because traditions and catechisms cancel the effect of the word of God, that is, they take the focus off following the teachings of Christ and put it on following the teachings of mere mortal men.
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In those words it doesn't. But why follow the teachings of mere mortal men when we have the complete teachings of Christ right in front of us? If he wanted there to be more, he would have said so.clskinner said:
Why, exactly do you believe there should be more than just the Bible? What do you need to add to the Bible to make it good enough?
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It's also interesting that nowhere in the Bible does anyone quote or reference the words of any human being in matters of faith and doctrine, only scripture. The Bible constantly refers to itself, but never refers to any other text, catechism, commentary or other book or writing at all. I never realized that until I started studying this tonight, but not once does anyone say, "As it is written by Gameliel," or "As the catechism teaches us," or "The haddith says," it only refers to itself on all matters of faith and doctrine. Even Jesus himself quoted constantly from scripture, but never from any other source.
Hey, if the Bible is enough for Jesus, then it's enough for me!
Hey, if the Bible is enough for Jesus, then it's enough for me!
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Sorry that I didn't get back to you, but a guy has to sleep sometime. Let me know if you still need to pursue this or if it's too late now...clskinner said:Something like that.
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Oh no problem.BT said:Sorry that I didn't get back to you, but a guy has to sleep sometime. Let me know if you still need to pursue this or if it's too late now...
I really appreciated hearing your thoughts last night. It is too late for the assignment, but I'd still like to pursue it if you wouldn't mind. It's something I'm interested in, and it may be useful in the future. Besides, it's something that so many of my Protestant brothers and sisters hold to; I'd just like to understand where y'all are coming from. I'll be in and out this morning, as I have class, but I'll definitely check back this afternoon. Thanks, BT.
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No problem. I'll go back to the first reply I missed and start there then. Just remember that I already said the list that I gave wasn't comprehensive.. just the common ones.. and the thing from Matthew isn't one that I've heard before it's just something that occurred to me some time ago...clskinner said:Oh no problem.
Congratualtions btw.
ok back to the thread ...
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The separation of flesh and spirit (Christian from the world, etc) is different than how the Holy Spirit teaches. We believe that the revelation from God of Himself to Man is complete. That there is no more new revelation coming.clskinner said:
Revelation 22:19 And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.
While we realize that the verse above is specifically speaking of the book of Revelation, we apply the principle stated to the whole of the Bible. Albert Barnes states it better than I in his "Notes on the New Testament"
"If any man shall add unto these things. With a view to furnish a more full and complete revelation; or with a profession that new truth had been communicated by inspiration. The reference here is to the book of Revelation only--for at that time the books that now constitute what we call the Bible were not collected into a single volume. This passage, therefore, should not be adduced as referring to the whole of the sacred Scriptures. Still, the principle is one that is thus applicable; for it is obvious that no one has a right to change any part of a revelation which God makes to man; to presume to add to it, or to take from it, or in any way to modify it."
But the Holy Spirit speaking and teaching is a whole different ball of wax. The Holy Spirit who is here with us, and within us, has an entire ministry of speaking and teaching. However his teaching and speaking is not in the scope of "new revelation" it is rather in the field of illumination and preservation. He illuminates what has already been given (the Bible) and preserves the Word for us. He makes intercession on our behalf, teaches us what to pray, etc. etc. etc. it goes on. One of the most important aspects of the Holy Spirit speaking to us and through us is the all important area of "what". Biblically we find that (contrary to some denominational theology) the Spirit does not speak "new revelation" He is he confirming Spirit and does not speak of himself. He has a job of sanctification which is progressive and He leads us through... ok getting off track sorry
(you might benefit from a word study on "Word of God", in this whole topic).
So while we understand that the Holy Spirit speaks to us and through us we find that what he speaks is the "confirming" and/or "illumination" of what has been given to us.
Yeah that's something that I came up with in my devotions. I devoted some study to it and have been mulling it around for awhile. I haven't dedicated the time to it that I will before I see if I'm on the right track or way off... It's one of those things that I usually don't talk about because I'm not 100% on it myself...Huh, this isn't something I've heard before. But it's very interesting to me. Ah, that's for another day!
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CLS, this probably won't help you much with your assignment, but sola scriptura has more historical support than biblical. The whole concept would never have arisen except that the Reformers pointed out how certain practices of the Church (beginning with the sale of indulgences) contradicted scripture. They wanted scripture to be a touchstone for all church doctrines and practices to prevent this from happening.
Of course, it continued to evolve beyond that. Perhaps too far. But it didn't spring directly from the Bible itself. It was first proposed as a method of correcting errors.
Of course, it continued to evolve beyond that. Perhaps too far. But it didn't spring directly from the Bible itself. It was first proposed as a method of correcting errors.
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