Socializm, Czars and Gangster Government

[reverend C]

You mean this?

Unless you consider that a reasoned argument, I am going to stick with ad hom.

no, no, the part about the czars that apparently scares you into ignoring it. that part.
the other part is ad hom all the way. she's a fruitcake.

LOL! (more caps!)

 

[CaDan]

<staff edit> Your argument against Bachman was that she supported the free market approach of just letting GM go bankrupt. Now you lecture me as how their bankruptcy saved millions of jobs. Pick a side, will you? As to the rest of your post, who owns GM? Is it public, or private?

GM filed for bankruptcy protection under Chapter 11 of the Bankruptcy Code. The court was persuaded that with reorganization, it could survive as an ongoing operation. That tends to be preferable to liquidation of its assets.

Approximately 60&#37; of the reorganized business is owned by the United States. That percentage will decrease next year with a planned stock offering. The United States will probably decrease its ownership interest over the next few years.

 

[reverend C]

GM filed for bankruptcy protection under Chapter 11 of the Bankruptcy Code. The court was persuaded that with reorganization, it could survive as an ongoing operation. That tends to be preferable to liquidation of its assets.

Approximately 60% of the reorganized business is owned by the United States. That percentage will decrease next year with a planned stock offering. The United States will probably decrease its ownership interest over the next few years.

does the united states hold any position in the management of the company, or only the influence of a stock holder?

 

[lordbt]

Approximately 60% of the reorganized business is owned by the United States. That percentage will decrease next year with a planned stock offering. The United States will probably decrease its ownership interest over the next few years.

And until it does, it runs the company.

 

[CaDan]

does the united states hold any position in the management of the company, or only the influence of a stock holder?

Not that I know of.

Now, the reorganized GM is likely to be cognizant of its largest shareholder. I think it is folly to argue that the government will have no influence over GM, but it will be indirect at best. I am hopeful the government will liquidate its position in GM as soon as practicable.

 

[reverend C]

And until it does, it runs the company.

not true. it does not influence the day to day operations as it has no management position in the firm.

the bankruptcy agreement would not have been approved without the involvement of the government, and the only other option would have been liquidation of assets, which may have been all it took to push us into a full blown depression.
but at least the free market would have "worked".

 

[ConqueredbyLove]

bachmann is a fruitcake, as clueless as palin to the big picture. not only is she not credible, she is incredible.

Wow.....how very, very sad....

I will pray for you...

 

[TheNewWorldMan]

And until it does, it runs the company.

As I recall, the government will not be voting its shares. So in terms of day-to-day operations, no.

I think only time will tell if the auto bailout was a good idea. I can see both sides of this one, frankly. If we hadn't done the bailout, the economy would have taken a significantly worse tumble than the already serious tumble it took, and millions would have suffered. On the other hand, have we epically rewarded failure while merely postponing the inevitable and perhaps even hobbling some startups that might be the next generation of automakers?

 

[CaDan]

And until it does, it runs the company.

No. The board of directors and the officers run the company. That's basic corporate governance law.

 

[CaDan]

Wow.....how very, very sad....

I will pray for you...

We get a lot of that.

 

[reverend C]

Not that I know of.

Now, the reorganized GM is likely to be cognizant of its largest shareholder. I think it is folly to argue that the government will have no influence over GM, but it will be indirect at best. I am hopeful the government will liquidate its position in GM as soon as practicable.

this is the modus operandi of most countries when their economy is in free fall. usually the world bank provides the financing, but the major companies that are crashing are sold to the government, the management and stockholders are replaced, and the company is sold back to the new team. there is no caterwalling about socialism. the temporary stop gap is seen as a necessary step toward stabilization.

 

[kermit]

And until it does, it runs the company.

The Obama administration stated that the government will not exercize it's stockholder voting rights. To my knowledge they have not participated in any stockholder vote. Also, as a majority shareholder the US government should have someone on the board of directors. They do not. They are not running the company as you claim.

 

[reverend C]

Wow.....how very, very sad....

I will pray for you...

thanks. God knows i need it, along with everyone else on this forum. pray for bachmann as well, while your reaching out with your heart.

 

[ConqueredbyLove]

However, most of the crowd excoriating Obama for the bailouts overlooks the fact that Bush was the one who set the precedent for bailouts of this nature

Nope...That is not going to work in the next election...

 

[lordbt]

As I recall, the government will not be voting its shares. So in terms of day-to-day operations, no.

Well, we shall see. But I dont know how you can say the government isnt running a company where it has installed 10 of 13 members of the Board of Directors.

New Slate of GM Board of Directors Members Selected | Reuters

"Led by Chairman of the Board Edward E. Whitacre Jr., former
chairman and CEO of AT&T Inc., the 13-member board includes
10 representatives nominated by the United States Treasury, one
representative nominated by the governments of Canada and
Ontario and one representative nominated by the United Auto
Workers Retiree Medical Benefits Trust, and Fritz Henderson,
General Motors Company president and chief executive officer
serves as the thirteenth member."

 

[reverend C]

Well, we shall see. But I dont know how you can say the government isnt running a company where it has installed 10 of 13 members of the Board of Directors.

New Slate of GM Board of Directors Members Selected | Reuters

"Led by Chairman of the Board Edward E. Whitacre Jr., former
chairman and CEO of AT&T Inc., the 13-member board includes
10 representatives nominated by the United States Treasury, one
representative nominated by the governments of Canada and
Ontario and one representative nominated by the United Auto
Workers Retiree Medical Benefits Trust, and Fritz Henderson,
General Motors Company president and chief executive officer
serves as the thirteenth member."

"installed" is a loaded word. nominated is accurate, and we can say the u.s. government is not running the company because once "installed" they are independent of the government and can only be replaced by a vote of the shareholders, which the government has chosen not to be a voting member of.
"we shall see" is not an argument. it's paranoia until supported by evidence.

 

[TheNewWorldMan]

Nope...That is not going to work in the next election...

I don't think you really understand the situation America is in. All you see is Obama who, for whatever reason, you obviously have a bee in your bonnet over, and want gone. As if McCain would have done any better. Here's where we are:

* We have a crumbling industrial base, thanks in large part to the neoconservatives who got the bright idea of racing Third World sweatshops to the bottom. How did that one work out? Have we pretty much realized that was a failure yet, or do we want to keep on going downhill until even store clerks and burger-flippers are outsourced to India?

* We built pretty much our whole civilization on the premise that cheap oil would last forever. It's almost gone. Burn Obama at the stake, turn the Rocky Mountains and continental shelves into Swiss cheese, and hey, you've bought us maybe three more years of cheap oil. You can swear in Rush Limbaugh with Michelle Malkin as veep, and guess what? We'll STILL be running out of cheap oil. When we run out of cheap oil, we lose the airlines, we lose agriculture, we lose transportation, we lose manufacturing.

Now, do tell me how getting rid of Obama is going to solve either of those problems for us. I'm all ears.

 

[reverend C]

Nope...That is not going to work in the next election...

let's hope truth always works. someone once said it will set you free.

 

[TheNewWorldMan]

"installed" is a loaded word. nominated is accurate, and we can say the u.s. government is not running the company because once "installed" they are independent of the government and can only be replaced by a vote of the shareholders, which the government has chosen not to be a voting member of.
"we shall see" is not an argument. it's paranoia until supported by evidence.

+1

 

[ConqueredbyLove]

Well, we shall see. But I dont know how you can say the government isnt running a company where it has installed 10 of 13 members of the Board of Directors.

New Slate of GM Board of Directors Members Selected | Reuters

"Led by Chairman of the Board Edward E. Whitacre Jr., former
chairman and CEO of AT&T Inc., the 13-member board includes
10 representatives nominated by the United States Treasury, one
representative nominated by the governments of Canada and
Ontario and one representative nominated by the United Auto
Workers Retiree Medical Benefits Trust, and Fritz Henderson,
General Motors Company president and chief executive officer
serves as the thirteenth member."

Wow...that is scary...