So confused...

[WirSindBettler]

From the AD show

The AD show is not Scripture. Remember that.

 

[Dialogist]

Actually there is no misunderstanding. Here is what the Orthodox Church in America has to say:

This is exactly what Roman Catholics believe. Sacramentalism is the bedrock of this system. And the Orthodox also confess their sins (or are supposed to) in the presence of a priest. Well the presbyters of the NT did not function in that manner, and James says confess your faults (not sins) one to another. Those are two different Greek words. And every Christian has at least one spiritual gift and one calling. They are not "lay people" but a Royal Priesthood (which the Orthodox conveniently forget, as does the RCC).

Since you know your way around Orthodox resources, you might consider how Orthodox define Sacrament.

It is obvious from your tone that you are not seriously interested in challenging your beliefs on this. Do keep in mind, thought, that the Scriptures you might cite came out of the Church, included in a canon that was established by the Church, so a model of the Church Fathers having obtained a copy of Scripture from somewhere and deciding to push it aside and innovate a theology of their own is probably inaccurate. In any case, if you should decide to revisit some of these things, I would recommend a book called The Truth of Our Faith, by Elder (Presbyter, that is) Cleopas of Romania. In a Q&A form he discusses virtually every objective ever raised against the Orthodox Church, drawing from Scripture. I also would suggest that no one can truly understand the Orthodox Church without attending its services.

Thank you for the interesting conversation and may God keep you!

 

[Arcangl86]

Actually there is no misunderstanding. Here is what the Orthodox Church in America has to say:

This is exactly what Roman Catholics believe. Sacramentalism is the bedrock of this system. And the Orthodox also confess their sins (or are supposed to) in the presence of a priest. Well the presbyters of the NT did not function in that manner, and James says confess your faults (not sins) one to another. Those are two different Greek words. And every Christian has at least one spiritual gift and one calling. They are not "lay people" but a Royal Priesthood (which the Orthodox conveniently forget, as does the RCC).

First off, my understanding is while only a priest can pronounce absolution, you can confess to any other Orthodox Christian that you have selected as your spiritual father. As for the second, read it again. It says that the laity's function is because of sacramental grace, which sounds really similar to the Lutheran idea that we are all given our vocation in baptism.

 

[Job8]

First off, my understanding is while only a priest can pronounce absolution, you can confess to any other Orthodox Christian that you have selected as your spiritual father. As for the second, read it again. It says that the laity's function is because of sacramental grace, which sounds really similar to the Lutheran idea that we are all given our vocation in baptism.

Arcangl86,
The terms which I have bolded are precisely the concepts which should be seriously questioned in the the light of the New Testament. No man can grant absolution to another, and you will not find that concept in the NT. We can forgive each other for sins against ourselves, but only God can remit, or cancel, or grant absolution of sins. Even the Levitical priests could not grant absolution but were commanded to make sacrifices for sins. The entire concept of the man-made "Christian" priesthood is false. Pastors, shepherds, elders, Yes. Priests, No.

 

[Arcangl86]

Arcangl86,
The terms which I have bolded are precisely the concepts which should be seriously questioned in the the light of the New Testament. No man can grant absolution to another, and you will not find that concept in the NT. We can forgive each other for sins against ourselves, but only God can remit, or cancel, or grant absolution of sins. Even the Levitical priests could not grant absolution but were commanded to make sacrifices for sins. The entire concept of the man-made "Christian" priesthood is false. Pastors, shepherds, elders, Yes. Priests, No.

There is scriptural backing for every single thing I just posted. Jesus specifically grants the Apostles the authority to forgive sins.

 

[sahjimira]

I am Messianic Christian. I like learning the Jewish roots of our faith, clears up a lot of things sometimes. R u saved? Keep studying the bible and different churchs. Let the Holy Spirit lead u

 

[Job8]

There is scriptural backing for every single thing I just posted. Jesus specifically grants the Apostles the authority to forgive sins.

Since the apostles are no longer with us, and modern "apostles" are false apostles, we must not presume that others today have the same authority. And even the application of that authority must be viewed in the light of Scripture. Paul, with his apostolic authority, first placed a sinning Christian under judgment, and after he repented, he was forgiven, and his fellow Christians were asked to forgive him (1 Cor 5:1-5; 2 Cor 2:1-11).

 

[Albion]

There is scriptural backing for every single thing I just posted. Jesus specifically grants the Apostles the authority to forgive sins.

Job8 is of course incorrect in his theory about the priesthood being a manmade invention. Both Scripture and history refute it in no uncertain terms. But OTOH, the pastor/priest/presbyter/bishop technically PRONOUNCES the absolution in God's name, which is why a private confession is strictly an optional thing. It's quite possible to confess during worship and receive the assurance of the forgiveness of one's sins, for instance. That depends on the liturgy and the church body, but it's an example.