So a human being has a right to be born but not to healthcare

[lordbt]

My inaction? I was terminated from a $50k a year job for the simple reason that they could find someone to do it for less money. My insurance for me and my daughter ran almost $1k a month once you added in my employer's contribution. Unemployment pays me around $22k a year before withholding. Let's see, I spend $500 a month on rent, $150 on utilities, $50 on internet, $250 in child support, $120 on auto, renter's, and life insurance, $150 on gas, $350 on food, and $18 on my one special 'me' thing (Netflix). Anything on there where I can shave off around $500 so that I can afford health insurance?

So I gather that you believe that your plight grants you first mortgage on your neighbors life. Are you saying that the state should intervene on your behalf, seize part of your neighbors wealth and hand it over to you? That doesnt strike me as fair. What do you think?

 

[JustOneWay]

Kind of disingenuous of you isnt it? First of all, there is no such thing as government money. The only money the government has is that which it has confiscated from its citizens. You clearly support this sort of thing and supported the stimulus plan, no doubt. A plan that puts everyone, including allhart, into debt that their future tax dollars must repay. Then you condemn him for benefiting from a program that you endorse and that he will ultimately pay for. First you champion the granting of unearned benefits, then condemn a man with unearned guilt for being part of a system you helped create. Most people I know would have too much self respect to make such arguments. I guess not everyone operates under the same standards.

Disingenuous? Not at all. First, we all know what government money is....technically it isn't our money. The government is taking from future generations!
Second, I never supported a stimulus plan; Bush's or Obama's. Third, I never voted for Bush or Obama....as a matter of fact, in the last six years I have voted for EVERY incumbent to be out of office, and voted against every democrat and republican. If it was one or the other I did not check the box. I support smaller government, and term limits. I would vote for getting rid of all house and senate if it were offered. However that would not fix our problems. Government must stop spending money....period. I am against abortion, however if somebody has one then I will pray for them instead of terrorizing them. Having said that, dont you feel silly for sizing me up without knowing anything about me?

 

[annrobert]

Kind of disingenuous of you isnt it? First of all, there is no such thing as government money. The only money the government has is that which it has confiscated from its citizens. You clearly support this sort of thing and supported the stimulus plan, no doubt. A plan that puts everyone, including allhart, into debt that their future tax dollars must repay. Then you condemn him for benefiting from a program that you endorse and that he will ultimately pay for. First you champion the granting of unearned benefits, then condemn a man with unearned guilt for being part of a system you helped create. Most people I know would have too much self respect to make such arguments. I guess not everyone operates under the same standards.

I did not see it as condemnation.
I saw it as him challenging his position.
Since he also benefits from the gov.
No shame in needing help sometimes at all.

 

[keryakos]

I ask you "why" would people have babies one right after another. If they can't afford them or their health wasn't good enough to take care of them? People get all the fun, but deffer the responsibility's to the Local, State and Federal Governments. Some people expect everything to be perfect. I don't, but we have to think things through. Shame on them the first time , shame on you the second time around!

Every Child is a gift from God Children are the Grace that God gives in spite of our mistakes Each Child is a reminder that Good actually exists that abiding love is not a fairy tale that there is an intangible wonder that surrounds each and every one of us ,,



My cousin Elijah was born out of wedlock he is beautiful I wish you could look into that boys eyes hes only six years the most gentle eyes you will ever see in this world and try to tell yourself that he is a mistake that his life has no value you couldnt because your not evil

If you directed these comments at Ann Robert i hope you will think again and consider the fact that God gave her her children God provided for them through her God loves them imensley and you have no right whatsoever to say these things about her and her Children .The Shame is on you ..

 

[lordbt]

Having said that, dont you feel silly for sizing me up without knowing anything about me?

Not really. I was judging your posts, not you. Plus, since your post history is disabled I have no ability to go back and check what your positions are, I have to go from memory.

 

[IzzyPop]

So I gather that you believe that your plight grants you first mortgage on your neighbors life. Are you saying that the state should intervene on your behalf, seize part of your neighbors wealth and hand it over to you? That doesnt strike me as fair. What do you think?

How do you gather that from my reply? I'm just wondering what I need to do differently. Not get fired? Not do well enough at my job that I get raises and promotions out on the east coast and then get transfered to a problem unit in the lower-priced midwest?

Maybe I should start my own company, but where do I get the capital? I spent all my savings and ruined my credit with (gasp!) medical bills. Sad part is that it was a routine labor, delivery, and wellness visits for my daughter. On top of the $5k in premiums and the $5k deductable before the insurance pays 80% of the bills, except for the $1500 cap on 'wellness' visits (think about all the times a new child visits the pediatrician during the first year of life. Those are all 'wellness' visits. So are the expensive immunization shots she got) and the extra $2k deductable for hospital visits (not that the insurance company would have covered a thing for a home delivery. I checked).

I guess my wife should have popped the kid out a few weeks early. Jan 19th delivery meant we got to pay the deductable twice.

 

[allhart]

I ask you "why" would people have babies one right after another. If they can't afford them or their health wasn't good enough to take care of them? People get all the fun, but deffer the responsibility's to the Local, State and Federal Governments. Some people expect everything to be perfect. I don't, but we have to think things through. Shame on them the first time , shame on you the second time around!

Every Child is a gift from God Children are the Grace that God gives in spite of our mistakes Each Child is a reminder that Good actually exists that abiding love is not a fairy tale that there is an intangible wonder that surrounds each and every one of us ,,



My cousin Elijah was born out of wedlock he is beautiful I wish you could look into that boys eyes hes only six years the most gentle eyes you will ever see in this world and try to tell yourself that he is a mistake that his life has no value you couldnt because your not evil

If you directed these comments at Ann Robert i hope you will think again and consider the fact that God gave her her children God provided for them through her God loves them imensley and you have no right whatsoever to say these things about her and her Children .The Shame is on you ..

Children are gifts from God and my thoughts aren't directed at the kids, it's at the parents. My perspective isn't towards everyone or even Ann(for I don't know her), but when I go to the grocery store and a adult female has three little kids running around and has one in the oven and is using welfare and food stamps. I can be forgiving and understanding once maybe twice, but four times. The old saying goes make your bed lay in it! Yes and what about the kids having to live with that? It's not like you can divorce your parent or anything like that, but they probably don't see themselves as poor, do they Kids I mean,for I never did. In the late 70's early 80's I new maybe when I had to eat beans and potatoes or S.O.S seven days a week and breakfast was Kellogg corn flakes. I still hate that stuff lol But welfare wasn't an option. I also remember learning to work a lawn mower at 8 years old and running up and down the streets mowing peoples lawn making hundred bucks. Then having my mom take 90 giving me 10 telling me I was help out the family!

 

[TheNewWorldMan]

So I gather that you believe that your plight grants you first mortgage on your neighbors life. Are you saying that the state should intervene on your behalf, seize part of your neighbors wealth and hand it over to you? That doesnt strike me as fair. What do you think?

How about we as a society have a more equitable way of distributing wealth? The only reason the super-rich are rich is because they got lucky and cornered the market in something. While I see nothing wrong with the fortunate having a reasonable degree of prosperity, enough's enough. The working class standard of living has been declining in this country for long enough while the rich get richer. Time for us to take it back!

I say raise taxes on the rich, tariff Chinese imports, write off the national debt and most other debt, get a Constitutional amendment in place to enforce fiscal discipline and a smaller government going forward, and get this country back to work again!

 

[annrobert]

Children are gifts from God and my thoughts aren't directed at the kids, it's at the parents. My perspective isn't towards everyone or even Ann(for I don't know her), but when I go to the grocery store and a adult female has three little kids running around and has one in the oven and is using welfare and food stamps. I can be forgiving and understanding once maybe twice, but four times. The old saying goes make your bed lay in it! Yes and what about the kinds having to live with that? It's not like you can divorce your parent or anything like that, but they probably don't see themselves as poor, do they Kids I mean,for I never did. I new maybe when I had to eat beans and potatoes or S.O.S seven days a week and breakfast was Kellogg corn flakes. I still hate that stuff lol But welfare wasn't an option. I also remember learning to work a lawn mower at 8 years old and running up and down the streets mowing peoples lawn making hundred bucks. Then having my mom take 90 giving me 10 telling me I was help out the family!

God did say be fruitful and multiply and the kingdom of heaven is full of children.So it is His opinion that matters.Jesus loves the children passionatelly as do the parents.Jesus looks forward to spending eternity with them.Why judge people for having children.

However that one post some pages back you made was directed at me.
But that is okay,I am not ashamed of my children,not the first second or any of them.

I left my abusive husband and came back to my home country and worked at whatever jobs I could.
I am thankful there was healthcare available to us.


QUOTE]
Every Child is a gift from God Children are the Grace that God gives in spite of our mistakes Each Child is a reminder that Good actually exists that abiding love is not a fairy tale that there is an intangible wonder that surrounds each and every one of us ,,

[/QUOTE]

thanks keryakos,
this is so true of every single child.

 

[JustOneWay]

Not really. I was judging your posts, not you. Plus, since your post history is disabled I have no ability to go back and check what your positions are, I have to go from memory.

Your memory is incorrect. I want to add that I have never received any unemployment check, nor have I ever worked for the government. I also pay 100% of my family's medical insurance because my company cant afford it.

 

[allhart]

God did say be fruitful and multiply and the kingdom of heaven is full of children.So it is His opinion that matters.Jesus loves the children passionatelly as do the parents.Jesus looks forward to spending eternity with them.Why judge people for having children.

However that one post some pages back you made was directed at me.
But that is okay,I am not ashamed of my children,not the first second or any of them.

I left my abusive husband and came back to my home country and worked at whatever jobs I could.
I am thankful there was healthcare available to us.


QUOTE]
Every Child is a gift from God Children are the Grace that God gives in spite of our mistakes Each Child is a reminder that Good actually exists that abiding love is not a fairy tale that there is an intangible wonder that surrounds each and every one of us ,,

thanks keryakos,
this is so true of every single child.


[/quote] Look people, here we go again. I married my wife that was living and working in San Jose Ca.. Working for a Temporary agency at $8 an hr. part-time with a 200 dollar car payment plus insurance and 450 rent on, and on etc. She shared house with kitchen privileges etc(Craaazy). I can have kids, she can't, but I taken the two boy's and her life on.(she had been married before, I hadn't) At the start of things at $12 an hour Overtime and back to school for me, five years worth! Boy things where bad and got worse before that got better,but I brought her down to Turlock. (ya know ,they say if you know the road you travel first, you probably won't travel it, That's definitely true) Rent was $500 for a two bedroom 1.5 bath. And two months later I took a week off from work and drove her around looking for a job by the phone book not the paper.

LETS PUT TO YA THIS WAY, I HAVE NEVER SKIRTED MY DUTY'S. I have always lived it and loved it with all I have and am. I have bleed big, cried big and loved big..... I am sorry you feel that I'm against you. For that is far from the truth. I am for all people as long as they meet up to their responsibility's or doing their very best. Even then I know what it means to screw up and needing second chances, but if you can't help yourself, How can you help anyone else?????? My wife tells me I was her knight and shining armor, but ya know what, God made her for me, as well! P.S. and the boy's tell me that I'm more a dad to them than their own dad. I'm real with them, loving but real. No holds bar! That's actually sad. I want to adopt when we get back on track! Help some-more of God's children!

 

[sdmsanjose]

Allhart quote
We are borrowing trillions and printing trillions We can't Even pay the the payment without borrowing, Wih all do respect you know what deficits means, right! we pay 500 million a month goes towards China in interest only payments/ And that's not what the CBO say's!

The 500 million a month to China has nothing to do with the proposed health care plan.

Yes I know what deficient means but that was not the main point of my post.

It has been stated that if the saving from health care reform does not cover the health care plan then other budget items will be cut. How does that add to the deficient? I guess you have already determined that President Obama is a liar or does not know what he is talking about. You may be right and you may be wrong but I was not commenting on the deficient or economics I was addressing what the scriptures have to say about this issue. One thing the scriptures talk about is attitude of the heart. Just like the poor woman who gave two pennies that you mentioned, I bet she had a deficient. However, Christ wants that kind of attitude of heart.

Now if we are going to talk about the deficient and fear of our country and our own finances going broke then I can understand your fear. Going broke so that someone else can have health insurance is something else to consider. I will admit that I would not choose to go broke so others could have health insurance. I just don’t think that I could live up to that highest standard set by Christ, I would fail. But I do not see any evidence that the USA is going broke because of the health care issue. I know they said the same thing about Medicare over 40 years ago but we did not go broke. As a matter of fact we had at least two periods of a balanced national budget AFTER Medicare was passed.

I am not willing to go completely broke for health care but I would be in favor of taking from some other government program that is not spoke of by scripture so that the poor can be helped. I would rather my tax dollar go to the poor rather than fighting wars so that other countries will have the same form of government as we do. Jesus never talked about fighting wars for a form of government but He had a lot to say about the poor. In fact I would be willing to pay a consumption tax or luxury tax to help the poor. I can be as selfish as the next guy but paying an added tax for my extra consumption and luxury is not too much to ask. I don’t think that is too much to ask do you?

What gets me are those that have all the necessities of life and then some, those that feel that their perception of what is their rights is most important, and their rationale on issues of justice and morality is the ultimate athority, when they try to discount or ignore the attitude of the heart that is taught by Christ, that gets to me.

If I fail to follow the scriptures then I will not try and justify my actions by claiming some political or irrelevant moral position. If I am going to go against helping the poor then I am going to say that I do not want to give one dollar that I have, I want it all for just me. I am not going to try to ignore or discount scripture to justify my failure to follow Christ’s teachings.

We can debate this issue for months but IMO it will boil down to:

1 Do you want to consider the Bible and scripture as a basis for your position on the health care issue?

2 What does the scripture teach on this issue?

3 Are you wiling to sacrifice a little, a lot, or none to help the poor with health care

Again I would encourage those Christians that feel that the Bible is very important on issues of this sort to put the teachings of Christ above political ideology, or your personal perceptions of justice or morality.

 

[allhart]

The 500 million a month to China has nothing to do with the proposed health care plan.

Yes I know what deficient means but that was not the main point of my post.

It has been stated that if the saving from health care reform does not cover the health care plan then other budget items will be cut. How does that add to the deficient? I guess you have already determined that President Obama is a liar or does not know what he is talking about. You may be right and you may be wrong but I was not commenting on the deficient or economics I was addressing what the scriptures have to say about this issue. One thing the scriptures talk about is attitude of the heart. Just like the poor woman who gave two pennies that you mentioned, I bet she had a deficient. However, Christ wants that kind of attitude of heart.

Now if we are going to talk about the deficient and fear of our country and our own finances going broke then I can understand your fear. Going broke so that someone else can have health insurance is something else to consider. I will admit that I would not choose to go broke so others could have health insurance. I just don’t think that I could live up to that highest standard set by Christ, I would fail. But I do not see any evidence that the USA is going broke because of the health care issue. I know they said the same thing about Medicare over 40 years ago but we did not go broke. As a matter of fact we had at least two periods of a balanced national budget AFTER Medicare was passed.

I am not willing to go completely broke for health care but I would be in favor of taking from some other government program that is not spoke of by scripture so that the poor can be helped. I would rather my tax dollar go to the poor rather than fighting wars so that other countries will have the same form of government as we do. Jesus never talked about fighting wars for a form of government but He had a lot to say about the poor. In fact I would be willing to pay a consumption tax or luxury tax to help the poor. I can be as selfish as the next guy but paying an added tax for my extra consumption and luxury is not too much to ask. I don’t think that is too much to ask do you?

What gets me are those that have all the necessities of life and then some, those that feel that their perception of what is their rights is most important, and their rationale on issues of justice and morality is the ultimate athority, when they try to discount or ignore the attitude of the heart that is taught by Christ, that gets to me.

If I fail to follow the scriptures then I will not try and justify my actions by claiming some political or irrelevant moral position. If I am going to go against helping the poor then I am going to say that I do not want to give one dollar that I have, I want it all for just me. I am not going to try to ignore or discount scripture to justify my failure to follow Christ’s teachings.

We can debate this issue for months but IMO it will boil down to:

1 Do you want to consider the Bible and scripture as a basis for your position on the health care issue?

2 What does the scripture teach on this issue?

3Are you wiling to sacrifice a little, a lot, or none to help the poor with health care

Again I would encourage those Christians that feel that the Bible is very important on issues of this sort to put the teachings of Christ above political ideology, or your personal perceptions of justice or morality.

Boy you are quick typist lol. Look I help with what I'm given.I am accountable for what has been given to me. I am a priest in my own home, I know what your saying, but that is for God's children to take up the torch. If all the people that called themselves a child of Christ (did as they where told) We wouldn't be in the place, where we're all at together?????????????????????????? No sin!!!!!

Also we are obligated to 600 trillion dollars "liability's" Social security, Medicare , medicaid a,b,c,and D, plus the deficit. Have you seen the debt-clock?

Also if sense Jesus died. For everyday until now you paid-out a million a day. You still wouldn't have made a trillion. A trillion is crazzzzzy money, man. We can't even get our mind around it!

 

[annrobert]

The 500 million a month to China has nothing to do with the proposed health care plan.

Yes I know what deficient means but that was not the main point of my post.

It has been stated that if the saving from health care reform does not cover the health care plan then other budget items will be cut. How does that add to the deficient? I guess you have already determined that President Obama is a liar or does not know what he is talking about. You may be right and you may be wrong but I was not commenting on the deficient or economics I was addressing what the scriptures have to say about this issue. One thing the scriptures talk about is attitude of the heart. Just like the poor woman who gave two pennies that you mentioned, I bet she had a deficient. However, Christ wants that kind of attitude of heart.

Now if we are going to talk about the deficient and fear of our country and our own finances going broke then I can understand your fear. Going broke so that someone else can have health insurance is something else to consider. I will admit that I would not choose to go broke so others could have health insurance. I just don’t think that I could live up to that highest standard set by Christ, I would fail. But I do not see any evidence that the USA is going broke because of the health care issue. I know they said the same thing about Medicare over 40 years ago but we did not go broke. As a matter of fact we had at least two periods of a balanced national budget AFTER Medicare was passed.

I am not willing to go completely broke for health care but I would be in favor of taking from some other government program that is not spoke of by scripture so that the poor can be helped. I would rather my tax dollar go to the poor rather than fighting wars so that other countries will have the same form of government as we do. Jesus never talked about fighting wars for a form of government but He had a lot to say about the poor. In fact I would be willing to pay a consumption tax or luxury tax to help the poor. I can be as selfish as the next guy but paying an added tax for my extra consumption and luxury is not too much to ask. I don’t think that is too much to ask do you?

What gets me are those that have all the necessities of life and then some, those that feel that their perception of what is their rights is most important, and their rationale on issues of justice and morality is the ultimate athority, when they try to discount or ignore the attitude of the heart that is taught by Christ, that gets to me.

If I fail to follow the scriptures then I will not try and justify my actions by claiming some political or irrelevant moral position. If I am going to go against helping the poor then I am going to say that I do not want to give one dollar that I have, I want it all for just me. I am not going to try to ignore or discount scripture to justify my failure to follow Christ’s teachings.

We can debate this issue for months but IMO it will boil down to:

1 Do you want to consider the Bible and scripture as a basis for your position on the health care issue?

2 What does the scripture teach on this issue?

3Are you wiling to sacrifice a little, a lot, or none to help the poor with health care

Again I would encourage those Christians that feel that the Bible is very important on issues of this sort to put the teachings of Christ above political ideology, or your personal perceptions of justice or morality.

amen that is truly what it boils down to.

God has made the weak and the strong.
The healthy and the unhealthy.
The intelligent and the less intelligent.
The hearing and the deaf.
the kings and the servants.
Those who see and those who are blind.
The rich and the poor,
Those with many talents and those with few.
There is nothing we have that was not given to us.
We cannot even add one inch to our hieght.
God owns the world and all that is in it.
The cattle on a thousand hills.
God says to be merciful and minister to the least of these,with our time and effort and love and physical needs.
Where our treasure is there our heart is also.
Therefore it is wise to build up treasure in heaven.
A wise man who obeys Jesus words builds his house upon the Rock,but the foolish man who does not obey,builds his house upon the sand.
When the storms and floods come the wise man's house will stand.

 

[allhart]

amen that is truly what it boils down to.

God has made the weak and the strong.
The healthy and the unhealthy.
The intelligent and the less intelligent.
The hearing and the deaf.
the kings and the servants.
Those who see and those who are blind.
The rich and the poor,
Those with many talents and those with few.
There is nothing we have that was not given to us.
We cannot even add one inch to our hieght.
God owns the world and all that is in it.
The cattle on a thousand hills.
God says to be merciful and minister to the least of these,with our time and effort and love and physical needs.
Where our treasure is there our heart is also.
Therefore it is wise to build up treasure in heaven.
A wise man who obeys Jesus words builds his house upon the Rock,but the foolish man who does not obey,builds his house upon the sand.
When the storms and floods come the wise man's house will stand.

Acts 28:26-27:
26 ‘Go and say to this people:
When you hear what I say,
you will not understand.
When you see what I do,
you will not comprehend.
27 For the hearts of these people are hardened,
and their ears cannot hear,
and they have closed their eyes—
so their eyes cannot see,
and their ears cannot hear,
and their hearts cannot understand,
and they cannot turn to me
and let me heal them.’[a]

 

[sdmsanjose]

Quote by Allhart
If all the people that called themselves a child of Christ (did as they where told) We wouldn't be in the place, where we're all at together?????????????????????????? No sin!!!!!

Allhart, I did not ask you to never sin I asked:

I can be as selfish as the next guy but paying an added tax for my extra consumption and luxury is not too much to ask. I don’t think that is too much to ask do you?

Quote by Allhart in response to post by Annrobert

Acts 28:26-27:
26 ‘Go and say to this people:
When you hear what I say,
you will not understand.
When you see what I do,
you will not comprehend.
27 For the hearts of these people are hardened,
and their ears cannot hear,
and they have closed their eyes—
so their eyes cannot see,
and their ears cannot hear,
and their hearts cannot understand,
and they cannot turn to me
and let me heal them.’[a]

Allhart

I have read your response several times but I cannot connect your post to our discussions.
What are you saying?

 

[allhart]

Allhart, I did not ask you to never sin I asked:

I can be as selfish as the next guy but paying an added tax for my extra consumption and luxury is not too much to ask. I don’t think that is too much to ask do you?







Allhart

I have read your response several times but I cannot connect your post to our discussions.
What are you saying?

Consumption tax, right on. Lets do it. Eliminate all productive taxes. There is no reason to penalize people for being productive. Don't ya think?

 

[Archaeopteryx]

Consumption tax, right on. Lets do it. Eliminate all productive taxes. There is no reason to penalize people for be productive. Don't ya think?

If the productive activity results in negative externalities that impose an added social cost upon the public then yes there is a need to tax in order to mitigate the effect of market failure.

 

[allhart]

If the productive activity results in negative externalities that impose an added social cost upon the public then yes there is a need to tax in order to mitigate the effect of market failure.

Ya know that any Nation that has taxes over 45% has failed as a Nation. Time you add local,state and Federal taxes. It runs some states 50-70% When is enough enough? When you can't save enough on the account of inflation and out of control Government spending. America have problem with out-sourcing of jobs etc. WHAT MORE DO YA WANT?

 

[lordbt]

Your memory is incorrect. I want to add that I have never received any unemployment check, nor have I ever worked for the government. I also pay 100% of my family's medical insurance because my company cant afford it.

Well that is terrific. I stand corrected. One cant get enough allies. I look forward to reading each and every one of your future posts that champion individual rights, human liberty, limited government and defend against the statist takeover of the free market and private health insurance.