So a human being has a right to be born but not to healthcare

[annrobert]

I feel sorry that you think that Ann is doing that she speaks the truth if every congressman had the love and concern that she had we would have a health care plan for all ,,I support her i support every word she has written
and i will say a prayer for you .

Thanks keryakos

 

[allhart]

I feel sorry that you think that Ann is doing that she speaks the truth if every congressman had the love and concern that she had we would have a health care plan for all ,,I support her i support every word she has written
and i will say a prayer for you .

Look in my writting it's hard to relate and to communicate all aspects and perspectives, but not all wealthly people are corrupt or evil. If people truly believe God is in control of all things. He will work it out for the best. And Glory be to God. I trust him more than any of ya'll. 1) I have responsibility's 2) inadequacy However I do want to do the right thing for all people. I have never been rich, but I have moved up from nothing to something,(blood sweat and tears) but I have shared it with all of my Godly and immediate family. But I do well to take care of things. God takes care of my needs not my greed's. God is the only one to change the perspective of one's heart and is the only one to renew the peoples minds. I can tell you this my brother and sister. I do my part and God being our common ground you know this to be true! Let me ask you this, if God placed people as to be rich and over you. Was he wrong to do that?

Also I can love my family better than the Gov. can! God asks me to take care of their outside needs and he will take care of the inside.

 

[lordbt]

With all due respect for the Constitution (and it was a work of political genius, though not without flaws (3/5ths of a person, anyone?)), it was written for a smallish, agrarian republic. We are now a large, Information Age superpower. So it's not quite going to fit.

The principles of individual liberty still apply. Just because a man leaves his farm and moves to the city does not mean he surrenders his rights. If what you say is true, the more advanced man and civilization become, the greater the restrictions on individual liberty must be. By that logic, slavery is the future of mankind. The reality is, slavery is the past, liberty is the future,

 

[allhart]

Things that are most important to people are unseen!!!!!! Love or pride! Actions speak louder than words. Ya know it's hard to be moderate when everything is extreme in here. Until life is pressing down on you, it's hard to get a different perspective. You can acknowledge things in life, but until you live it, you truly don't understand it! That's where, don't judge another man until you walked in his shoes comes from!

 

[allhart]

People you are all responsible for your own health coverage. You are to invest into your life! That's one of your needs then don't be going and buying everything else before you cover your needs to live! Four or five cars or even a car-payment, video games etc.....

 

[JustOneWay]

People you are all responsible for your own health coverage. You are to invest into your life! That's one of your needs then don't be going and buying everything else before you cover your needs to live! Four or five cars or even a car-payment, video games etc.....

Are you paying for an internet connection, and the electricity to run your computer while taking government stimulus money for your health insurance?


Please, please, PLEASE tell me you are sitting in a public library using a government supplied computer.

 

[StarCannon]

As far as I see it no one has a right to anything that is taken from the efforts of others. This health care bill will create a despotism in which those who refuse to work for themselves will overtake the able majority. It will be socialism's worst case scenario.

Let the people who can't afford health care suffer the consequences of their inaction.

 

[allhart]

Are you paying for an internet connection, and the electricity to run your computer while taking government stimulus money for your health insurance?


Please, please, PLEASE tell me you are sitting in a public library using a government supplied computer.

Look here buddy, I'm paying what I can, At lest I don't neglect or shirk my responsibility's. You better be nice, behave. We can agree to disagree, but I am sharing real life issue and you want to hit below the belt. I am disappointed in you to say the lest. I don't expect or think I'm owed or deserve anything. You truly disappoint me, I see both sides of the spectrum for I've been on both sides, but I see and say that God's in control. For you to deceitfully look to undermine my faithfullness to talk about and personnlize the issue by putting some substance and a face behind, it kills me. Hurt me, can you pull the knife out my back now please! YOUR TRUE FACE SHINES THROUGH, I SEE WHAT IS HIDDEN IN YOU. TO GO AND DEBATE NO MATTER THE CASE IN POINT! To win no matter the casualty, to go for the jugular everytime! Have you EVER been on unemployment? I ask God to show you and give you some perspective on freedom, To renew your mind! You don't know what you Got until it's gone! I would like to see you truly have a business of your own and see both side of people and the perspective on life issues, AMEN!!!!

 

[lordbt]

“ From everyone who has been given much, much will be demanded; and from the one who has been entrusted with much, much more will be asked”
Luke 12:48 (New International Version)


​

Is it God who will do the demanding and the asking or have you taken that role upon yourself?

There are those that will present all kinds of rationale for their opinions to oppose health care for the poor for personal, political, or other reasons but I want to encourage people to consider what the scriptures say. There have been a lot of scriptures posted in this thread and I hope they will be considered.

The question here is one of force. There have been any number of scriptures that promote the idea of helping those in need. That is a personal decision that each individual must make with what is his own to give. What you and others are trying to do is make the claim that since scripture tells us to help others, we must force people to help others whether they want to or not. That is the point of my objection. Point to me the scripture where God forces anyone to follow Him, obey Him, believe in Him, or help the poor. Those scriptures do not exist because implicit within the Bible is the notion of free will. So I find it somewhat bizarre that you would, in the name of God, compel me to do something that God Himself does not compel me to do.

God compels me to do nothing. He doesnt even force me to believe in Him. What I have earned is rightfully mine, yet you, using scripture where no force is used, seek to take from me by force what is mine in the name of God.

"Render unto Caesar the things which are Caesar's; and unto God the things that are God's"

This is not, as is commonly said, some sort of support by Jesus for the paying of taxes. It is more of a sign of the lack of relevance He put on money. But there is an important principle here: Render unto everyone what is rightfully his own be it God, Caesar, or man. What I earn, or what any man earns be they rich or poor is rightfully their own--render it unto them. There is no scripture where Jesus authorizes you or the state to take from one man and give it to another. But you are expected to do justice and judgement with respect to others.

 

[sdmsanjose]

Allhart
“….I'm not going to allow my Gov. to take from me and decide whomever they think deserves it more than I”

Allhart
The government already takes from you and I in the form of taxes. Did you read all my post above? Did you read where I addressed this situation? I said

“The issue of taxes has been settled decades ago, we are going to pay taxes.”

The President said just a few days ago that we will not pay any taxes for the health care program that he is proposing. He said if the health care savings in his plan do not cover the costs then there will be CUTS in other budget items to pay for it. He could be lying, he could think that there will be no new taxes needed and find out that we have to tax, or he may be right. We just don’t know.

I believed President George Bush Sr. when he said “Read my lips no new taxes”. I really do not want to have my posts to go into a political battle about Democrats or Republicans. I despise the position that some take which is either the political party is all good or all bad stereotyping that can happen very easily with political parties. When it comes to an issue that Jesus speaks about the political parties’ position means very little to me. I have seen both parties be right and wrong on different issues. I will not always take a Democrate or Republican stand, it all depends on the issue.


If you have to take away from your family’s needs to give another health care then I can understand your concern. At this point I see no evidence of that. Even if it got to the point that we have to cut back on other existing tax funded programs such as corporate welfare or some military actions to fund the health care program I would vote for that. I am sure there are some funded programs that could be cut that Jesus does not talk about. The issues that Jesus does talk about will have more of a priority with me.

Your reference to the poor widow that gave two pennies, all she had, even though she was poor and probably had needs that were not met she gave all. That attitude is what Jesus was teaching in Mark 12. So all this stuff about “force” and “Robbing from the rich to give to the poor” is missing the point that Jesus was teaching.

What is our attitude about your government representative spending some of your tax dollars?

Remember the government is going to spend your tax dollars on something and it is your privilege and responsibility to encourage them how to spend it. Either you want the government to include the poor or you do not.

We have a voice in how our money is spent and I elect to encourage our Government to spend a portion of my tax dollars on what the scriptures talk about in giving to the poor.

If you feel that you should encourage your representative government to NOT spend a portion of your tax dollars on giving to the poor then that certainly is your right

Christ was talking about an attitude and actions in regards to giving to the poor not your rights.

 

[annrobert]

Look here buddy, I'm paying what I can, At lest I don't neglect or shirk my responsibility's. You better be nice, behave. We can agree to disagree, but I am sharing real life issue and you want to hit below the belt. I am disappointed in you to say the lest. I don't expect or think I'm owed or deserve anything. You truly disappoint me, I see both sides of the spectrum for I've been on both sides, but I see and say that God's in control. For you to deceitfully look to undermine my faithfullness to talk about and personnlize the issue by putting some substance and a face behind, it kills me. Hurt me, can you pull the knife out my back now please! YOUR TRUE FACE SHINES THROUGH, I SEE WHAT IS HIDDEN IN YOU. TO GO AND DEBATE NO MATTER THE CASE IN POINT! To win no matter the casualty, to go for the jugular everytime! Have you EVER been on unemployment? I ask God to show you and give you some perspective on freedom, To renew your mind!

quote from allhart

I ask you "why" would people have babies one right after another. If they can't afford them or their health wasn't good enough to take care of them? People get all the fun, but deffer the responsibility's to the Local, State and Federal Governments. Some people expect everything to be perfect. I don't, but we have to think things through. Shame on them the first time , shame on you the second time around!

 

[lawtonfogle]

The principles of individual liberty still apply. Just because a man leaves his farm and moves to the city does not mean he surrenders his rights. If what you say is true, the more advanced man and civilization become, the greater the restrictions on individual liberty must be. By that logic, slavery is the future of mankind. The reality is, slavery is the past, liberty is the future,

Physical slavery past, financial slavery present, liberty future is the current model.

 

[StarCannon]

I doubt the model will be allowed to continue in the next decade. Things are going to get much worse before they get better.
Based on the observations of the world today:
Physical slavery, spritual slavery, economic slavery -> past, present, immediate future.

 

[allhart]

quote from allhart

There's blood in the water and the sharks are circling! ! "HELP"

 

[lordbt]

Are you paying for an internet connection, and the electricity to run your computer while taking government stimulus money for your health insurance?


Please, please, PLEASE tell me you are sitting in a public library using a government supplied computer.

Kind of disingenuous of you isnt it? First of all, there is no such thing as government money. The only money the government has is that which it has confiscated from its citizens. You clearly support this sort of thing and supported the stimulus plan, no doubt. A plan that puts everyone, including allhart, into debt that their future tax dollars must repay. Then you condemn him for benefiting from a program that you endorse and that he will ultimately pay for. First you champion the granting of unearned benefits, then condemn a man with unearned guilt for being part of a system you helped create. Most people I know would have too much self respect to make such arguments. I guess not everyone operates under the same standards.

 

[StarCannon]

There's blood in the water and the sharks are circling! ! "HELP"

... It's a just a forum debate, dude.

 

[JustOneWay]

Look here buddy, I'm paying what I can, At lest I don't neglect or shirk my responsibility's. You better be nice, behave. We can agree to disagree, but I am sharing real life issue and you want to hit below the belt. I am disappointed in you to say the lest. I don't expect or think I'm owed or deserve anything. You truly disappoint me, I see both sides of the spectrum for I've been on both sides, but I see and say that God's in control. For you to deceitfully look to undermine my faithfullness to talk about and personnlize the issue by putting some substance and a face behind, it kills me. Hurt me, can you pull the knife out my back now please! YOUR TRUE FACE SHINES THROUGH, I SEE WHAT IS HIDDEN IN YOU. TO GO AND DEBATE NO MATTER THE CASE IN POINT! To win no matter the casualty, to go for the jugular everytime! Have you EVER been on unemployment? I ask God to show you and give you some perspective on freedom, To renew your mind! You don't know what you Got until it's gone! I would like to see you truly have a business of your own and see both side of people and the perspective on life issues, AMEN!!!!

You are not the only person who is disappointed in me....

 

[IzzyPop]

As far as I see it no one has a right to anything that is taken from the efforts of others. This health care bill will create a despotism in which those who refuse to work for themselves will overtake the able majority. It will be socialism's worst case scenario.

Let the people who can't afford health care suffer the consequences of their inaction.

My inaction? I was terminated from a $50k a year job for the simple reason that they could find someone to do it for less money. My insurance for me and my daughter ran almost $1k a month once you added in my employer's contribution. Unemployment pays me around $22k a year before withholding. Let's see, I spend $500 a month on rent, $150 on utilities, $50 on internet, $250 in child support, $120 on auto, renter's, and life insurance, $150 on gas, $350 on food, and $18 on my one special 'me' thing (Netflix). Anything on there where I can shave off around $500 so that I can afford health insurance?

 

[keryakos]

... It's a just a forum debate, dude.

I agree no one is trying to attack anyone but im glad to see no one is backing down either

 

[allhart]

Allhart
The government already takes from you and I in the form of taxes. Did you read all my post above? Did you read where I addressed this situation? I said

“The issue of taxes has been settled decades ago, we are going to pay taxes.”

The President said just a few days ago that we will not pay any taxes for the health care program that he is proposing. He said if the health care savings in his plan do not cover the costs then there will be CUTS in other budget items to pay for it. He could be lying, he could think that there will be no new taxes needed and find out that we have to tax, or he may be right. We just don’t know.

I believed President George Bush Sr. when he said “Read my lips no new taxes”. I really do not want to have my posts to go into a political battle about Democrats or Republicans. I despise the position that some take which is either the political party is all good or all bad stereotyping that can happen very easily with political parties. When it comes to an issue that Jesus speaks about the political parties’ position means very little to me. I have seen both parties be right and wrong on different issues. I will not always take a Democrate or Republican stand, it all depends on the issue.


If you have to take away from your family’s needs to give another health care then I can understand your concern. At this point I see no evidence of that. Even if it got to the point that we have to cut back on other existing tax funded programs such as corporate welfare or some military actions to fund the health care program I would vote for that. I am sure there are some funded programs that could be cut that Jesus does not talk about. The issues that Jesus does talk about will have more of a priority with me.

Your reference to the poor widow that gave two pennies, all she had, even though she was poor and probably had needs that were not met she gave all. That attitude is what Jesus was teaching in Mark 12. So all this stuff about “force” and “Robbing from the rich to give to the poor” is missing the point that Jesus was teaching.

What is our attitude about your government representative spending some of your tax dollars?

Remember the government is going to spend your tax dollars on something and it is your privilege and responsibility to encourage them how to spend it. Either you want the government to include the poor or you do not.

We have a voice in how our money is spent and I elect to encourage our Government to spend a portion of my tax dollars on what the scriptures talk about in giving to the poor.

If you feel that you should encourage your representative government to NOT spend a portion of your tax dollars on giving to the poor then that certainly is your right

Christ was talking about an attitude and actions in regards to giving to the poor not your rights.

We are borrowing trillions and printing trillions We can't Even pay the the payment without borrowing, Wih all do respect you know what deficits means, right! we pay 500 million a month goes towards China in interest only payments/ And that's not what the CBO say's!