So a human being has a right to be born but not to healthcare

[annrobert]

Even if people think people are being forced to share money they do not wish to share,and even if people have never asked for help,or needed help ,or received help,there are still people who may need help,regardless of whether others understand why,or how they could do better if they truly wanted to,or tried harder,etc. All the reasons why equal access to health care is wrong or taking hard earned taxes,lets look at how Jesus wants us to treat the sick and poor and needy.
Christians of all people shoud want the poor and needy taken care of,shouldn't they?
We have never walked in the other persons shoes.
Jesus had compassion on all and healed and fed the multitudes.
He gave us a way to live by.

1. Ephesians 4
   
   
   1I therefore, the prisoner of the Lord, beseech you that ye walk worthy of the vocation wherewith ye are called,
   2With all lowliness and meekness, with longsuffering, forbearing one another in love;
   3Endeavouring to keep the unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace.
   4There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling;
   5One Lord, one faith, one baptism,
   6One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all. 7But unto every one of us is given grace according to the measure of the gift of Christ

Luke 6:30
Give to every man that asketh of thee; and of him that taketh away thy goods ask them not again.



Matthew 9:13
But go ye and learn what that meaneth, I will have mercy, and not sacrifice: for I am not come to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.


34Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:

35For I was an hungred, and ye gave me meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me in:
36Naked, and ye clothed me: I was sick, and ye visited me: I was in prison, and ye came unto me.
37Then shall the righteous answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, and fed thee? or thirsty, and gave thee drink?
38When saw we thee a stranger, and took thee in? or naked, and clothed thee?
39Or when saw we thee sick, or in prison, and came unto thee? 40And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me.


Luke 14
12Then said he also to him that bade him, When thou makest a dinner or a supper, call not thy friends, nor thy brethren, neither thy kinsmen, nor thy rich neighbours; lest they also bid thee again, and a recompence be made thee.


13But when thou makest a feast, call the poor, the maimed, the lame, the blind:
14And thou shalt be blessed; for they cannot recompense thee: for thou shalt be recompensed at the resurrection of the just.

Luke 10
29But he, willing to justify himself, said unto Jesus, And who is my neighbour?

30And Jesus answering said, A certain man went down from Jerusalem to Jericho, and fell among thieves, which stripped him of his raiment, and wounded him, and departed, leaving him half dead.
31And by chance there came down a certain priest that way: and when he saw him, he passed by on the other side.
32And likewise a Levite, when he was at the place, came and looked on him, and passed by on the other side.
33But a certain Samaritan, as he journeyed, came where he was: and when he saw him, he had compassion on him,
34And went to him, and bound up his wounds, pouring in oil and wine, and set him on his own beast, and brought him to an inn, and took care of him.
35And on the morrow when he departed, he took out two pence, and gave them to the host, and said unto him, Take care of him; and whatsoever thou spendest more, when I come again, I will repay thee.
36Which now of these three, thinkest thou, was neighbour unto him that fell among the thieves? 37And he said, He that shewed mercy on him. Then said Jesus unto him, Go, and do thou likewise.

This samaritan,took His time and effort and supplies and money to care for this injured soul.


24But woe unto you that are rich! for ye have received your consolation.

25Woe unto you that are full! for ye shall hunger. Woe unto you that laugh now! for ye shall mourn and weep.
26Woe unto you, when all men shall speak well of you! for so did their fathers to the false prophets.
27But I say unto you which hear, Love your enemies, do good to them which hate you,
28Bless them that curse you, and pray for them which despitefully use you.
29And unto him that smiteth thee on the one cheek offer also the other; and him that taketh away thy cloak forbid not to take thy coat also.
30Give to every man that asketh of thee; and of him that taketh away thy goods ask them not again.
31And as ye would that men should do to you, do ye also to them likewise.
32For if ye love them which love you, what thank have ye? for sinners also love those that love them.
33And if ye do good to them which do good to you, what thank have ye? for sinners also do even the same.
34And if ye lend to them of whom ye hope to receive, what thank have ye? for sinners also lend to sinners, to receive as much again.
35But love ye your enemies, and do good, and lend, hoping for nothing again; and your reward shall be great, and ye shall be the children of the Highest: for he is kind unto the unthankful and to the evil.
36Be ye therefore merciful, as your Father also is merciful.
37Judge not, and ye shall not be judged: condemn not, and ye shall not be condemned: forgive, and ye shall be forgiven: 38Give, and it shall be given unto you; good measure, pressed down, and shaken together, and running over, shall men give into your bosom. For with the same measure that ye mete withal it shall be measured to you again.

 

[keryakos]

Excellent Post Ann Robert

 

[annrobert]

Excellent Post Ann Robert

Thanks keryakos

 

[lordbt]

Even if people think people are being forced to share money they do not wish to share,and even if people have never asked for help,or needed help ,or received help,there are still people who may need help,regardless of whether others understand why,or how they could do better if they truly wanted to,or tried harder,etc. All the reasons why equal access to health care is wrong or taking hard earned taxes,lets look at how Jesus wants us to treat the sick and poor and needy.
Christians of all people shoud want the poor and needy taken care of,shouldn't they?
We have never walked in the other persons shoes.
Jesus had compassion on all and healed and fed the multitudes.
He gave us a way to live by.

But should not that way to live by be yours because you have freely chosen it? Charity is what you do with what is your own, not what you do with things that have been taken from others. Human liberty is at least as important, if not more so, than charity. You dont sacrifice one for the sake of the other.

 

[BlessEwe]

Well said AnnRobert!

You mean we need to encourage women not to murder their children? I would think it would just be common sense.

Don't lay that on the Republicans. Lay it on the culture of death created by the Left.


BTW: Your post reveals the Leftist philosophy that government is the solution to problems. It is not. Government IS the problem.

This a pro-choice stance. I am a pro-life democrat so your stereotyping doesn't work, same as All lefts are Military haters. How long must we beat this dead horse.
Obama's plan will not be funding abortion ( I would think unless it is a life saving situation).

lordbt: But should not that way to live by be yours because you have freely chosen it? Charity is what you do with what is your own, not what you do with things that have been taken from others. Human liberty is at least as important, if not more so, than charity. You dont sacrifice one for the sake of the other.

This is getting old too! As said earlier .. we are all taxed in America, and not all of us agree on which way it is spent all of the time. But you use the things provided as much as the other guy. This is one of those things that will be provided for the ones who need it. I guess if you wanted to go live in the back mountains, you wouldn't be taxed.

 

[PreachersWife2004]

Even if people think people are being forced to share money they do not wish to share,and even if people have never asked for help,or needed help ,or received help,there are still people who may need help,regardless of whether others understand why,or how they could do better if they truly wanted to,or tried harder,etc. All the reasons why equal access to health care is wrong or taking hard earned taxes,lets look at how Jesus wants us to treat the sick and poor and needy.
Christians of all people shoud want the poor and needy taken care of,shouldn't they?
We have never walked in the other persons shoes.
Jesus had compassion on all and healed and fed the multitudes.
He gave us a way to live by.

So are you saying that anyone against universal health care coverage isn't living the way Jesus wanted us to?

Once again, let me point out that many of us who are against the current proposal also help out people in other ways. Have you thought about the fact that this current proposal may make it more difficult for people like us to provide that help to other people? What about them then? Who advocates for them?

You cannot rob from the rich to give to the poor.

 

[annrobert]

But should not that way to live by be yours because you have freely chosen it?

For chrisitians no, we are not our own we are bought with a price.
Jesus said if you love me you will keep my commands and obey me.
If Jesus is our Lord we obey Him.It is Jesus who said to do all the things I quoted from the bible.It is not our choice to minister to the needy sick poor,maimed lame halt etc.Jesus said to do it.We must obey.




Charity is what you do with what is your own, not what you do with things that have been taken from others.

Jesus owns the world and all that is in it.
The cattle on a thousand on a thousand hills.
Jesus said to care for the needy and poor.
We obey.
If we have love and Jesus we obey.




Human liberty is at least as important, if not more so, than charity. You dont sacrifice one for the sake of the other.

No love is important above all.Love mercy and compassion.

This is getting old too! As said earlier .. we are all taxed in America, and not all of us agree on which way it is spent all of the time. But you use the things provided as much as the other guy. This is one of those things that will be provided for the ones who need it. I guess if you wanted to go live in the back mountains, you wouldn't be taxed.

Amen BlessEwe

and Thankyou

So are you saying that anyone against universal health care coverage isn't living the way Jesus wanted us to?

That is between the individual and Jesus Himself.

 

[lordbt]

This is getting old too! As said earlier .. we are all taxed in America, and not all of us agree on which way it is spent all of the time. But you use the things provided as much as the other guy. This is one of those things that will be provided for the ones who need it. I guess if you wanted to go live in the back mountains, you wouldn't be taxed.

It is getting old simply because you continue to miss the point. On what grounds, be they Christian, moral or otherwise, do you justify the concept of robbing from the rich to give to the poor? From where do you get the authority to condone taking what belongs to others and using it for those ends of which you approve?

Annrobert laid out a series of passages where Jesus makes the moral argument for helping those in need. Nowhere in there does He advocate taking it from those who choose to ignore His advice. If you believe that should be done, show me where the Bible advocates such a thing. If it is not in the Bible, how do you justify it?

 

[BlessEwe]

So are you saying that anyone against universal health care coverage isn't living the way Jesus wanted us to?

Once again, let me point out that many of us who are against the current proposal also help out people in other ways. Have you thought about the fact that this current proposal may make it more difficult for people like us to provide that help to other people? What about them then? Who advocates for them?

You cannot rob from the rich to give to the poor.

Can you please explain how it is coming from the rich? Aren't we all paying for it as taxes have not be raised yet for those making over 250 K.
We would be all paying for this, just as we have been paying for the war. Also giving to charity's is a write off, so people will still be funding the things they want. I would think these write off's would lower our personal taxes, just as they always have.

 

[keryakos]

So are you saying that anyone against universal health care coverage isn't living the way Jesus wanted us to?

Ann said nothing of the kind you r problem is that you only see what you want to see .Ann was only saying what you ALREADY KNOW as a Pastors wife Stop attacking others for a change and respond to posts as they are written not in the way that you choose to read them ..

 

[PreachersWife2004]

Can you please explain how it is coming from the rich? Aren't we all paying for it as taxes have not be raised yet for those making over 250 K.

It's the principle of the matter, not that it's actually coming from the rich. If you came to my house and robbed me, even if you used that money to buy food for other people, you'd still be robbing me.

We would be all paying for this, just as we have been paying for the war. Also giving to charity's is a write off, so people will still be funding the things they want. I would think these write off's would lower our personal taxes, just as they always have.

I'm not talking about giving to charity and then writing it off. Several times in this thread I have talked about how our community works to help each other out. Tax us even more, and that help may have to be stopped because we have to help ourselves now. Farmers who routinely share their crops with the community would have to harvest more for themselves rather than for the community. Local business who help the neighborhood out would have to raise their prices in order to pay for the insurance they will be required to have (or the fine, whichever).

To me, food is a more immediate need than health care insurance. Shelter is a more immediate need than health care insurance. I'd rather help out people THAT way, because it's already how I help them out, as do many in this community and many other communities.

I don't like paying for the war, either. Personally, I hate taxes. We get screwed at both ends of the spectrum by the government because of my husband's profession, so you're not going to change my mind into thinking that taxes are a wonderful thing. Taxes are simply the government's biggest credit cards.

 

[lordbt]

Can you please explain how it is coming from the rich? Aren't we all paying for it as taxes have not be raised yet for those making over 250 K.

The top 1% of wage earners in the US paid 40.40% of all income taxes.
The top 5% of wage earners in the US paid 60.63 % of all income taxes.
The top 10% of wage earners in the US paid 71.22% of all income taxes.
Sounds to me like the burden is clearly upon the wealthiest in this country. Now, you may like that outcome, but you cannot argue that it is not true.

The Tax Foundation - Summary of Latest Federal Individual Income Tax Data

 

[keryakos]

It is getting old simply because you continue to miss the point. On what grounds, be they Christian, moral or otherwise, do you justify the concept of robbing from the rich to give to the poor? From where do you get the authority to condone taking what belongs to others and using it for those ends of which you approve?

Annrobert laid out a series of passages where Jesus makes the moral argument for helping those in need. Nowhere in there does He advocate taking it from those who choose to ignore His advice. If you believe that should be done, show me where the Bible advocates such a thing. If it is not in the Bible, how do you justify it?

Human Life is more important than Personal Liberty my life is more important that your right to run your business to your right to vote even Life comes before rights your life is a s precious as mine but not your profit margin

 

[BlessEwe]

It's the principle of the matter, not that it's actually coming from the rich. If you came to my house and robbed me, even if you used that money to buy food for other people, you'd still be robbing me.



I'm not talking about giving to charity and then writing it off. Several times in this thread I have talked about how our community works to help each other out. Tax us even more, and that help may have to be stopped because we have to help ourselves now. Farmers who routinely share their crops with the community would have to harvest more for themselves rather than for the community. Local business who help the neighborhood out would have to raise their prices in order to pay for the insurance they will be required to have (or the fine, whichever).

To me, food is a more immediate need than health care insurance. Shelter is a more immediate need than health care insurance. I'd rather help out people THAT way, because it's already how I help them out, as do many in this community and many other communities.

I don't like paying for the war, either. Personally, I hate taxes. We get screwed at both ends of the spectrum by the government because of my husband's profession, so you're not going to change my mind into thinking that taxes are a wonderful thing. Taxes are simply the government's biggest credit cards.

LOL, I couldn't stay away. I will go rest after this. Who likes taxes..Not me. and your right we all get taken advantage of and where does the money go? We have some boxes piled up right now, my husband is working on taxes now...Your husband is a pastor right? So the church funding doesn't get taxed but your family does? Not sure how that works.

lordbt I want to look over the link later. Thanks for providing it.

 

[PreachersWife2004]

BlessEwe, you don't even want to get me started on how pastors get taken on their taxes.

Now go rest. PW's orders.

 

[annrobert]

13For he shall have judgment without mercy, that hath shewed no mercy; and mercy rejoiceth against judgment.

14What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him?
15If a brother or sister be naked, and destitute of daily food, 16And one of you say unto them, Depart in peace, be ye warmed and filled; notwithstanding ye give them not those things which are needful to the body; what doth it profit?


23Then said Jesus unto his disciples, Verily I say unto you, That a rich man shall hardly enter into the kingdom of heaven.
24And again I say unto you, It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God.

23And Jesus looked round about, and saith unto his disciples, How hardly shall they that have riches enter into the kingdom of God!


22Now when Jesus heard these things, he said unto him, Yet lackest thou one thing: sell all that thou hast, and distribute unto the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come, follow me.
23And when he heard this, he was very sorrowful: for he was very rich.
24And when Jesus saw that he was very sorrowful, he said, How hardly shall they that have riches enter into the kingdom of God! 25For it is easier for a camel to go through a needle's eye, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God.

20But lay up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where neither moth nor rust doth corrupt, and where thieves do not break through nor steal:
21For where your treasure is, there will your heart be also.

James 2


1My brethren, have not the faith of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Lord of glory, with respect of persons.
2For if there come unto your assembly a man with a gold ring, in goodly apparel, and there come in also a poor man in vile raiment;
3And ye have respect to him that weareth the gay clothing, and say unto him, Sit thou here in a good place; and say to the poor, Stand thou there, or sit here under my footstool:
4Are ye not then partial in yourselves, and are become judges of evil thoughts?
5Hearken, my beloved brethren, Hath not God chosen the poor of this world rich in faith, and heirs of the kingdom which he hath promised to them that love him? 6But ye have despised the poor.


Jesus said to go and do like the good samaritan.
Jesus said invite the needy and wounded to our suppers rather than friends and relatives.
Jesus said to visit the sick.
Jesus said to minister to the least of these.
Jesus said we are not our own.
Jesus said to give and not expect back.
That is the principle of the matter.
helping the poor does not hurt anyone.
Jesus said to do it, all through the gospels, no choice,we have to obey Him.
Jesus also paid taxes.

 

[lordbt]

22Now when Jesus heard these things, he said unto him, Yet lackest thou one thing: sell all that thou hast, and distribute unto the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come, follow me.
23And when he heard this, he was very sorrowful: for he was very rich.
24And when Jesus saw that he was very sorrowful, he said, How hardly shall they that have riches enter into the kingdom of God! 25For it is easier for a camel to go through a needle's eye, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God.

In Luke's parable of the rich young ruler which you quote here, did Jesus, upon hearing the man's reluctance to part with his wealth, direct His followers to confiscate the young rulers wealth and distribute it to the poor? Or did He let the young ruler go his own way?

Charity, to be of any virtue, must be voluntary. But that is true for any virtue. To compel a behavior through force or the threat of force is the denial of morality. To be judged upon the choices we make, we must first have the freedom to make those choices. Liberty, then, is our first obligation to ourselves and our fellow men.

Jesus said to go and do like the good samaritan.

Jesus said invite the needy and wounded to our suppers rather than friends and relatives.
Jesus said to visit the sick.
Jesus said to minister to the least of these.
Jesus said we are not our own.
Jesus said to give and not expect back.
That is the principle of the matter.
helping the poor does not hurt anyone.
Jesus said to do it, all through the gospels, no choice,we have to obey Him.
Jesus also paid taxes.

But you do not have to obey Him. He did not compel your obedience even though He had the power to do so. If you obey Him it is because you choose to. We are evaluated by those things we freely choose to do, not those thing we are forced to do.

 

[PreachersWife2004]

13For he shall have judgment without mercy, that hath shewed no mercy; and mercy rejoiceth against judgment.

See, when you post stuff like this in a thread like this, it's really almost as though you're saying that anyone who disagrees with you isn't showing the right kind of mercy.

14What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him?

Yes, faith can save. It is not our works that get us to heaven. The fruits of our faith are shown in the day to day things that we do. That may or may not include paying for someone else's medical treatment, but we get to choose how we show our fruits, not the government.

15If a brother or sister be naked, and destitute of daily food, 16And one of you say unto them, Depart in peace, be ye warmed and filled; notwithstanding ye give them not those things which are needful to the body; what doth it profit?

And again, the idea that just because people are against universal health care coverage that they are aren't helping out in other ways is just plain wrong and misguided.

23Then said Jesus unto his disciples, Verily I say unto you, That a rich man shall hardly enter into the kingdom of heaven.
24And again I say unto you, It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God.

23And Jesus looked round about, and saith unto his disciples, How hardly shall they that have riches enter into the kingdom of God!

You do realize that this doesn't at mean that rich people are bad, or that they deserve to have their wealth taken away. One of the most caring compassionate and giving Christians I know happens to own a multi-million dollar business, often donates much to area churches and gives food away on a regular basis. He doesn't hoard his wealth - which is what is being talked about in these passages.

22Now when Jesus heard these things, he said unto him, Yet lackest thou one thing: sell all that thou hast, and distribute unto the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come, follow me.
23And when he heard this, he was very sorrowful: for he was very rich.
24And when Jesus saw that he was very sorrowful, he said, How hardly shall they that have riches enter into the kingdom of God! 25For it is easier for a camel to go through a needle's eye, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God.

See above. But I'll ask you: have you sold all that you own to follow Jesus?

20But lay up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where neither moth nor rust doth corrupt, and where thieves do not break through nor steal:
21For where your treasure is, there will your heart be also.

and we can certainly do this without the government's help.

James 2

1My brethren, have not the faith of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Lord of glory, with respect of persons.
2For if there come unto your assembly a man with a gold ring, in goodly apparel, and there come in also a poor man in vile raiment;
3And ye have respect to him that weareth the gay clothing, and say unto him, Sit thou here in a good place; and say to the poor, Stand thou there, or sit here under my footstool:
4Are ye not then partial in yourselves, and are become judges of evil thoughts?
5Hearken, my beloved brethren, Hath not God chosen the poor of this world rich in faith, and heirs of the kingdom which he hath promised to them that love him? 6But ye have despised the poor.

see, again, there's that tone of judgment from you. For the record, I AM POOR. It's a little hard for me to hate myself.

Jesus said to go and do like the good samaritan.

Yes, and many people who oppose this health care reform do that on a regulat basis.

Jesus said invite the needy and wounded to our suppers rather than friends and relatives.

Eh, I think you're misreading those passages a bit, but the general idea isn't to do these things to garner attention but to truly help those in need. In my case, my relatives and neighbors ARE the wounded and the needy, so I'm covered.

Jesus said to visit the sick.

Again, many people opposed to this health care reform probably do this in some form of fashion or another.

Jesus said to minister to the least of these.
Jesus said we are not our own.
Jesus said to give and not expect back.
That is the principle of the matter.
helping the poor does not hurt anyone.
Jesus said to do it, all through the gospels, no choice,we have to obey Him.
Jesus also paid taxes.

Oh we have plenty of choice. We are not GodBots who just blindly follow. God gave us free will. We don't always choose rightly with our free will, but He doesn't force us to do anything. It's our faith that causes us to want to do good to and for others.

I am the poor. Just remember that. My household is well below poverty level for a family of four. We live okay and comfortably because of the love of our congregation and our neighbors, not because anyone is forced to help us.

 

[annrobert]

In Luke's parable of the rich young ruler which you quote here, did Jesus, upon hearing the man's reluctance to part with his wealth, direct His followers to confiscate the young rulers wealth and distribute it to the poor? Or did He let the young ruler go his own way?

Paying taxes is the law and Jesus even paid taxes ,so if taxes are to be used for health care ,that is a good thing,better than some things that taxes are used for.
27Notwithstanding, lest we should offend them, go thou to the sea, and cast an hook, and take up the fish that first cometh up; and when thou hast opened his mouth, thou shalt find a piece of money: that take, and give unto them for me and thee.

14And when they were come, they say unto him, Master, we know that thou art true, and carest for no man: for thou regardest not the person of men, but teachest the way of God in truth: Is it lawful to give tribute to Caesar, or not?

15Shall we give, or shall we not give? But he, knowing their hypocrisy, said unto them, Why tempt ye me? bring me a penny, that I may see it. 16And they brought it. And he saith unto them, Whose is this image and superscription? And they said unto him, Caesar's.
17And Jesus answering said unto them, Render to Caesar the things that are Caesar's, and to God the things that are God's. And they marvelled at him.

Charity, to be of any virtue, must be voluntary.

Jesus expects obedience,however the obedience is voluntary ,because His people love Him and their fellowman because Jesus changes their heart.
10He that loveth his brother abideth in the light, and there is none occasion of stumbling in him

15Love not the world, neither the things that are in the world. If any man love the world, the love of the Father is not in him.

16For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world. 17And the world passeth away, and the lust thereof: but he that doeth the will of God abideth for ever.

But that is true for any virtue. To compel a behavior through force or the threat of force is the denial of morality.

.This love is not forced.Christians willingly obey Jesus,they love Jesus with all their heart and soul and strength.The virtue is not forced but freely given.It is not will power or self effort or earning God's approval, it is love for God because they are redeemed and have a new nature.They are not perfect, but they are growing and bearing fruit.


To be judged upon the choices we make, we must first have the freedom to make those choices. Liberty, then, is our first obligation to ourselves and our fellow men.

.Since Jesus is the Way ,The Truth and the Life.Whom the Son sets free is free indeed.So believing in Jesus is freedom and His ways are liberty.Mans natural sinful nature is not free.
13And now abideth faith, hope, charity, these three; but the greatest of these is charity



But you do not have to obey Him. He did not compel your obedience even though He had the power to do so. If you obey Him it is because you choose to. We are evaluated by those things we freely choose to do, not those thing we are forced to do.

Acts 17:30
And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent:

Yes we have free will,but we are not free until we believe in Jesus .

Jesus made it clear that we are to minister to the least of these and give without expecting it back,to visit the sick,take care of the wounded and feed the poor etc.Therefore universal healthcare agrees with this teaching.
No way around it.

 

[keryakos]

See, when you post stuff like this in a thread like this, it's really almost as though you're saying that anyone who disagrees with you isn't showing the right kind of mercy.

Yes, faith can save. It is not our works that get us to heaven. The fruits of our faith are shown in the day to day things that we do. That may or may not include paying for someone else's medical treatment, but we get to choose how we show our fruits, not the government.

And again, the idea that just because people are against universal health care coverage that they are aren't helping out in other ways is just plain wrong and misguided.


You do realize that this doesn't at mean that rich people are bad, or that they deserve to have their wealth taken away. One of the most caring compassionate and giving Christians I know happens to own a multi-million dollar business, often donates much to area churches and gives food away on a regular basis. He doesn't hoard his wealth - which is what is being talked about in these passages.


See above. But I'll ask you: have you sold all that you own to follow Jesus?

and we can certainly do this without the government's help.

see, again, there's that tone of judgment from you. For the record, I AM POOR. It's a little hard for me to hate myself.


Yes, and many people who oppose this health care reform do that on a regulat basis.

Eh, I think you're misreading those passages a bit, but the general idea isn't to do these things to garner attention but to truly help those in need. In my case, my relatives and neighbors ARE the wounded and the needy, so I'm covered.

Again, many people opposed to this health care reform probably do this in some form of fashion or another.

Oh we have plenty of choice. We are not GodBots who just blindly follow. God gave us free will. We don't always choose rightly with our free will, but He doesn't force us to do anything. It's our faith that causes us to want to do good to and for others.

I am the poor. Just remember that. My household is well below poverty level for a family of four. We live okay and comfortably because of the love of our congregation and our neighbors, not because anyone is forced to help us.

No one is suggesting that ant one force anyone to do anything and Ann is not judging anyone again you are reading what you wish into it ..