Sins of the father

[cinger]

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I am trying to find reconciliation between verses like Deu 24:16, Eze 18:20, John 9:1-3 on one hand, and 1 Kings 11:11-12 on another.

In several places in the bible God makes statement like, "the son will not be made responsible for the evil-doing of the father, or the father for the evil-doing of the son (Eze 18:20, BBE)."

However, in 1 Kings 11:11-12, God says that "Because you (Solomon) have done this, and have not kept my agreement and my laws, which I gave you, I will take the kingdom away from you by force and will give it to your servant. I will not do it in your life-time, because of your father David, but I will take it from your son.(1K11:11-12, BBE)"

 

[cinger]

Who is the servant in 1 Kings 11:11 that God planned to give the kingdom by force from Rehoboam? Should it be considered to be Jeroboam (1 Kings 12) or Egypt (2 Chr 12)?

 

[ebia]

[Please let me know if this is the correct location for this post, as well as the location of similar threads if this has already been discussed.]

I am trying to find reconciliation between verses like Deu 24:16, Eze 18:20, John 9:1-3 on one hand, and 1 Kings 11:11-12 on another.

In several places in the bible God makes statement like, "the son will not be made responsible for the evil-doing of the father, or the father for the evil-doing of the son (Eze 18:20, BBE)."

However, in 1 Kings 11:11-12, God says that "Because you (Solomon) have done this, and have not kept my agreement and my laws, which I gave you, I will take the kingdom away from you by force and will give it to your servant. I will not do it in your life-time, because of your father David, but I will take it from your son.(1K11:11-12, BBE)"

Scripture talks a lot about punishment and about inevitable consequence using the language for one about the other. If you view all the talk of punishment as though it's an arbitrary penalty imposed by God who might equally have imposed a different penalty you'll miss the point. If you view all talk of consequence as though it just happens you'll miss the point.

I hate talk of reconcilling texts, which usually has nothing to do with reconciliation (which is a completely inappropriate metaphor anyway) but usually means compromising one or both texts to fit the other. Scripture does contain seemingly conflicting ideas in tension, because together they point to towards a bigger idea that's beyond the scope of precise language. Reconcile them and you can no longer triangulate the two - you have some other pointer pointing out to who knows what.

 

[ebia]

Who is the servant in 1 Kings 11:11 that God planned to give the kingdom by force from Rehoboam? Should it be considered to be Jeroboam (1 Kings 12) or Egypt (2 Chr 12)?

Samuel/Kings and Chronicles were written at different times for different purposes and therefore describe events differently and ascribe different meanings to them. Like the Gospels, God didn't give us a single harmonised account, but 4 different ones. We shouldn't try to second-guess him by harmonising them, but take each for the meaning it tells.

A photographer took several photos of the same structure from different angles and gave them to two people. One overlayed one over the other, "harmonised them" and came up with a picure that bore no resemblance to the structure. The other looked at each picture on its own terms and, in his head, started to build up a three-dimensional vision of the structure from the two dimensional photographs.

 

[freeport]

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I am trying to find reconciliation between verses like Deu 24:16, Eze 18:20, John 9:1-3 on one hand, and 1 Kings 11:11-12 on another.

In several places in the bible God makes statement like, "the son will not be made responsible for the evil-doing of the father, or the father for the evil-doing of the son (Eze 18:20, BBE)."

However, in 1 Kings 11:11-12, God says that "Because you (Solomon) have done this, and have not kept my agreement and my laws, which I gave you, I will take the kingdom away from you by force and will give it to your servant. I will not do it in your life-time, because of your father David, but I will take it from your son.(1K11:11-12, BBE)"

Ezekiel was speaking of "in that day" -- you removed the context.

Sins of the fathers, really is metaphorically speaking of finding God as our Father. It also speaks of being separated from Adam and the wrath of the Law -- "in that day" every man and woman will be judged for their own sins.

What the verse above actually is speaking of is the separation of the Son of God through crucifixtion "take it from your son". Jesus is the son of both David and Solomon.

This speaks of Jesus taking on the sins of the world, truly.

 

[ittarter]

I am trying to find reconciliation between verses like Deu 24:16, Eze 18:20, John 9:1-3 on one hand, and 1 Kings 11:11-12 on another.

"What do you mean when you use this proverb about the land of Israel: 'Fathers have eaten sour grapes, and their children's teeth are set on edge'?"

Well, I'm going to have to disagree with Ebia and Freeport on this one.

One thing that a lot of Bible readers don't realize is that, in many instances, the writer of one book is aware of other contents in the Bible (those already written, which he has had occasion to become familiar with). These writers often choose to interact with the same questions, but may take them in different directions.

So, for example, in the so-called "exilic period," after the dissolution of the sociopolitical states of Israel and Judah, prophets (notably Jeremiah and Ezekiel) start talking about a "new covenant."

Fishbane, in his Biblical Interpretation in Ancient Israel, describes the process by which a religion’s foundational teachings – traditum – is inherently antiquated and in need of interpretative and innovative development – traditio. For the passage in question, it's easy to see how the received covenantal theology revived by Josiah might be in need of reinterpretation or renovation in order to make it more palatable for a community experiencing destruction, degradation and exile. Such adaptations function to maintain a functional worldview for which Torah remains the prime interpretative key.

Here and in Jeremiah 31:29-30 we have an emphasis of discontinuity with respect to Yahweh’s policy of punishment. Under the old policy, the people are one, their covenant with Yahweh is one, and so whatever they have gone through in former days, they must go through again. This cyclical approach has been exhausted, and Jeremiah yearns for a decisive newness to wash out the old. However, it is clear that a newness of Yahweh must precede a newness of the people. Thus the change in policy

 

[cinger]

[Comment retracted by author]

 

[freeport]

[Comment retracted by author]

OK.

 

[eyzonthepriz]

[Please let me know if this is the correct location for this post, as well as the location of similar threads if this has already been discussed.]

I am trying to find reconciliation between verses like Deu 24:16, Eze 18:20, John 9:1-3 on one hand, and 1 Kings 11:11-12 on another.

In several places in the bible God makes statement like, "the son will not be made responsible for the evil-doing of the father, or the father for the evil-doing of the son (Eze 18:20, BBE)."

However, in 1 Kings 11:11-12, God says that "Because you (Solomon) have done this, and have not kept my agreement and my laws, which I gave you, I will take the kingdom away from you by force and will give it to your servant. I will not do it in your life-time, because of your father David, but I will take it from your son.(1K11:11-12, BBE)"

This sermon will clear up the confusion:
www.LetGodBeTrue.com - Free Audio Sermons

 

[Frogster]

Best thing to remember,it was nailed to a tree,our sins and the curses...as per Galatians 3:13.

 

[Frogster]

sorry,dual posted.

 

[christandisrael]

The Ezekiel verse may be some kind of prophecy, I don't know. But as for everyone, we all are responsible for our sins.