Simple questions ---

[boodle]

Several Questions if you please –
No major scriptural study is required. Just simple answers to very simple questions.
1. Is man the center piece and primary purpose for God’s creation?
2. What does God desire for mankind?
3. What is God’s plan for man?
4. What is the general purpose of God’s doctrines/teachings?
5. What is God’s ultimate motive for all that He does?
6. Is a major part of Christ’s mission to be an example for humanity?
7. Are we to become like Christ?

 

[Evergreen48]

Several Questions if you please –
No major scriptural study is required. Just simple answers to very simple questions.

1. Is man the center piece and primary purpose for God’s creation?

I believe Jesus Christ to be the center piece and primary purpose for God's creation.

2. What does God desire for mankind?

I believe that God's desire for mankind is that mankind be kind and helpful and loving toward one another. And that mankind live in peace and harmony with one another.

3. What is God’s plan for man?

What is God's plan for man, in regard to what? His plan for one person may not be the same as His plan for another person.

4. What is the general purpose of God’s doctrines/teachings?

They are for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: that we maybe throughly furnished unto all good works.

5. What is God’s ultimate motive for all that He does?

Again, God's motive behind His action regarding one thing may not be the same motive behind His action regarding another thing.

6. Is a major part of Christ’s mission to be an example for humanity?

Yes, I believe that is true.

7. Are we to become like Christ?

Yes, I believe we are admonished to do that.


.

 

[elman]

=boodle;36671806]Several Questions if you please –
No major scriptural study is required. Just simple answers to very simple questions.
1. Is man the center piece and primary purpose for God’s creation?

Perhaps.

2. What does God desire for mankind?

That men and women grow into loving beings.

3. What is God’s plan for man?

To join Him in the spiritual realm.

4. What is the general purpose of God’s doctrines/teachings?

That men and women grow into loving beings.

5. What is God’s ultimate motive for all that He does?

That men and women grow into loving beings.

6. Is a major part of Christ’s mission to be an example for humanity?

Yes

7. Are we to become like Christ?

Yes.

 

[stranger]

1. Is man the center piece and primary purpose for God’s creation?

No, the redemption of God's prodigal son ,Satan ,is the centre-piece , mankind is just the bait in the snare set to trap Satan into admitting to himself that he desires to be above God

2. What does God desire for mankind?

God wills and can enact the salvation of all men by changing the will of men by means of His truth , that love is the only way to eternal life in the spirit

3. What is God’s plan for man?

God planned from the beginning to redeem Jesus first, then the 144,000 firstfruit saints , then all Israel to show the power of His truth to chnage the will of men, then the many gentiles through the ministry of Israel in the righteous new earth kingdom of God come to all men

4. What is the general purpose of God’s doctrines/teachings?

God's teachings simply are the record that God said what would happen from the beginning , the proof that God is beyond time...

5. What is God’s ultimate motive for all that He does?

To show first that love is a way to eternal life throuh Jesus christ, and to show second that no other way ,even any way devised by an otherwise perfect Lucifer, leads to eternal life , so that God shows outsdide Himself that He is right, that love is all that counrts in the end and nothing else leads anyone to eternal life in the spirit

6. Is a major part of Christ’s mission to be an example for humanity?

An example of the way that perfection of love leads to eternal life, yes, but not to convey the impression that all men can flollow him in this life [as falsely claimed by many christians] ... only the few find the narrow way of sainthood in this life and know all truth before death, the many are saved afterward in the new earth kingdom of God

7. Are we to become like Christ?

Yes all men will become like christ, perfected in love, sinning no more, but only a few are given to Jesus for this in THIS life, the many die sinners still and cannot begin perfecting their love until after the second resurrection when the few will serve them under Jesus ...

 

[boodle]

1. Is man the center piece and primary purpose for God’s creation?

No, the redemption of God's prodigal son ,Satan ,is the centre-piece , mankind is just the bait in the snare set to trap Satan into admitting to himself that he desires to be above God



God wills and can enact the salvation of all men by changing the will of men by means of His truth , that love is the only way to eternal life in the spirit



God planned from the beginning to redeem Jesus first, then the 144,000 firstfruit saints , then all Israel to show the power of His truth to chnage the will of men, then the many gentiles through the ministry of Israel in the righteous new earth kingdom of God come to all men


God's teachings simply are the record that God said what would happen from the beginning , the proof that God is beyond time...



To show first that love is a way to eternal life throuh Jesus christ, and to show second that no other way ,even any way devised by an otherwise perfect Lucifer, leads to eternal life , so that God shows outsdide Himself that He is right, that love is all that counrts in the end and nothing else leads anyone to eternal life in the spirit


An example of the way that perfection of love leads to eternal life, yes, but not to convey the impression that all men can flollow him in this life [as falsely claimed by many christians] ... only the few find the narrow way of sainthood in this life and know all truth before death, the many are saved afterward in the new earth kingdom of God



Yes all men will become like christ, perfected in love, sinning no more, but only a few are given to Jesus for this in THIS life, the many die sinners still and cannot begin perfecting their love until after the second resurrection when the few will serve them under Jesus ...

Sorry I was not looking for a reply from the watchtower.

 

[Tavita]

1. Is man the center piece and primary purpose for God’s creation?

No, Christ is the center piece and primary purpose for God's creation..

Col 1:16 For all things were created in Him, the things in the heavens, and the things on the earth, the visible and the invisible, whether thrones or dominions or principalities or powers, all things were created through Him and for Him.
Col 1:17 And He is before all things, and by Him all things consist.

2. What does God desire for mankind?

To be one with Him..

John 17:21 that they all may be one, as You, Father, are in Me, and I in You, that they also may be one in Us, so that the world may believe that You have sent Me.


3. What is God’s plan for man?

To partake of the divine nature..

2Pe 1:3 according as His divine power has given to us all things that pertain to life and godliness, through the knowledge of Him who has called us to glory and virtue,
2Pe 1:4 through which He has given to us exceedingly great and precious promises, so that by these you might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.


4. What is the general purpose of God’s doctrines/teachings?

To be approved to God; to become godly..

2Ti 2:15 Study earnestly to present yourself approved to God, a workman that does not need to be ashamed, rightly dividing the Word of Truth.
2Ti 2:16 But shun profane, vain babblings, for they will increase to more ungodliness.

Heb 4:12 For the Word of God is living and powerful and sharper than any two-edged sword, piercing even to the dividing apart of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.


5. What is God’s ultimate motive for all that He does?

1Jo 4:8 The one who does not love has not known God. For God is love.


6. Is a major part of Christ’s mission to be an example for humanity?

No, amongst other major missions, one was to redeem mankind, so we can partake of the divine nature and be one with Him.

Eph 1:7 In Him we have redemption through His blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of His grace,

Eph 1:14 who is the earnest of our inheritance, to the redemption of the purchased possession, to the praise of His glory.


7. Are we to become like Christ?

Yes. To be a disciple is to become like your Master.

Luke 14:27 And whoever does not bear his cross and come after Me, he cannot be My disciple.

Luke 6:40 The disciple is not above his master, but everyone who is perfect shall be like his master.

John 21:22 Jesus said to him, If I desire that he remain until I come, what is that to you? You follow Me.

 

[just human]

Sorry I was not looking for a reply from the watchtower.

This would not be an answer from a JW or from any Watchtower material. Maybe a look into the JW beliefs is needed before assuming wrongly what is believed.

just human

 

[Tavita]

This would not be an answer from a JW or from any Watchtower material. Maybe a look into the JW beliefs is needed before assuming wrongly what is believed.

just human

Yes, I know Stranger isn't a JW.

 

[stranger]

1. Is man the center piece and primary purpose for God’s creation?

No, Christ is the center piece and primary purpose for God's creation..

Col 1:16 For all things were created in Him, the things in the heavens, and the things on the earth, the visible and the invisible, whether thrones or dominions or principalities or powers, all things were created through Him and for Him.
Col 1:17 And He is before all things, and by Him all things consist.

There are two coverig cherubim at the throne of God , so the centre-pieces are two ... Jesus is indeed the manifestation of the Word ['Logos'] , the right-hand cherub, who is God from the beginning , but consider also the role of the other cherub on the left hand of God who has equal status to the Word but a different and complementary role in God's plan for the earth and heavnes and for mankind:-

Ezekiel 28:16 By the multitude of thy merchandise they have filled the midst of thee with violence, and thou hast sinned: therefore I will cast thee as profane out of the mountain of God: and I will destroy thee, O covering cherub, from the midst of the stones of fire.

This clearly is not Jesus , but the left-hand cherub , Satan, so why is God destroying that which He created perfect ? :-

Ezekiel 28:15 Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee.

The answer lies in the very purpose of God in the earth ,spoken of in Isaiah 14 and expanded on in other scriptures, notably perhaps Ezek 28 ansd 2Thess 2 ...

God indeed establishes that perfect love is the only way to redemption to the spirit [salvation] by the manifestation of the right-hand cherub as Jesus Christ , the long-awaited messiah, annointed king of the troubled and divided nation of Israel, come to re-unite the nation's two Houses under himself and form them into a perfect priesthood [the order of Melchisedec/Melchizedek] of kings to rule and minister to the many in the kingdom of God come in the righteous new earth , as promised by God long ago [but not yet made a reality since many things must happen in this earth first] :-

Exodus 19:6 And ye shall be unto me a kingdom of priests, and an holy nation. These are the words which thou shalt speak unto the children of Israel.

2 Peter 3:13 Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.

Since righteousness is simply keeping God's law of love which Jesus too commanded, the new earth kingdom of God is the realisation of the salvation of the many [Rev 7:9-10] by means of the ministry of the very few who find the narrow way of sainthood, of following Jesus in perfection of love, in righteoiusness, in holiness, in this earth...

Why then does God choose to take only the few first, who go by this narrow strait way of perfect love ,and the many afterward [Rev 7:9-10] ? :-

Matthew 7:14 Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.

Rev 7:9 After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands;
10 And cried with a loud voice, saying, Salvation to our God which sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb.

Why the delay in redeeming the many? Why not in this earth at the return of Jesus?

Again God explains in scripture , not only that redemption is by means of the minstry of the few as kings and priests in the new earth :-

Revelation 5:10 And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth.

John 18:36 Jesus answered, My kingdom is not of this world:

[Jesus rules then as king of these kings on earth, but NOT THIS earth... thus the kingdom come to the many is in the new earth, and the many are obedient to Jesus, righteous and loving there, perfecting their love in preparation for judgment of their works in the new earth by God.... and just as importantly the many, who were sinners to death in this earth, are freed from that sin by their death ...and so the second resurrection is their opportunity for redemption through following Jesus in the righteous kingdom of God come at last upon the earth ]

Romans 6:7 For he that is dead is freed from sin.

This explains why Jesus said that he came only for the House of Israel [lost and paganised descendants of Jacob living for millenia as gentiles] and why the covenant of grace[ Heb 8:8-12] is only with the House of Judah [Jews] and the lost house of Israel, the two parts of the still-divided nation of Israel , as it says, it is ONLY with the descendants of those who broke the old covenant :-

Heb 8:8 For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah:
9 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers...Matthew 15:24 But he [Jesus] answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the House of Israel.

The role of Jesus then is to gather the two Houses together into one holy nation which will serve as kings and priests in the new earth kingdom of God come at last to all men in the new earth... and that is what he said that he came to do... and why? ... because that is the way to go about the redemption of the many afterward, get the kings and the priesthood perfected first

BUT what else , other than the redemption of mankind? God love ALL His creation and is committed to saving ALL created beings , that includes even the hardest one to save, Satan himself :-

Isaiah 59:1 Behold, the LORD’S hand is not shortened, that it cannot save; neither his ear heavy, that it cannot hear:

-God then has the ability to save all, does He have the will to do it though ? :-

1 Timothy 2:4 Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.

1 Timothy 4:10 For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe.

Note that the few who are GIVEN to believe in this world, become saints and are the ones who serve as kings and priests in the new earth, but all are of Jacob's descendants [not all are Jews though of course, there is also the lost House of Israel who never became Jews]

Why the dealy though, why not save all men now through the power of God's truth to change the will of men toward being loving in our lives, to not sinning any more at all?

The answer is that God tackles the hardest case first, He requires to humble Satan in this earth , and so scripture descrivbes the snare set for Satan, the trap of giving Satan 'enouh rope to hang himself... God gives Satan power to deceive mankind into worship of the christ image created by Satan , the antichrist [Rev 13:3-7] so that Satan finally admits [2Thess 2:4] that his desire is to be the god of men ... God then allows men to worship Satan in order to get this 'confession' of blasphemy out of Satan ... and thus Satan must die as the wages of sin ... this is the graet beginning of the humbling of Satan that God created mankind to e part of [and we too shall be humbled when our empty sinning ways are revealed and men reap the wages of sin, death, for following Satan, not Jesus, and sinning in life, not loving as the saints do...

Thus the wrath of God on sinners and the termination of this earth and heavens once their purpose is over... and God creates the new earth and heavens then where te many are withdrawn from Satan's control progressively, hmbling him still further after his own resurrection in the new earth :-

Revelation 20:3 And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.

Slowly then God redeems all from support of Satan, and the process is completed in the lake of 'fire' with Satan finally left alone and broken, admitting that he is no god... then is the time for God's enduring mercy on His prodigal son whom He must love [as the God of love] ... thus love conquers all in the end and all praise God for His love, to His glory...

So what has been acheived when it is all over? .... a great deal in fact, God has shown OUTSIDE Himself ,that He is right, that the only way to eternal life is perfect love ... Jesus proved that it works, Satan proved that no other way worked, so the two centrepieces of God's creation are complementary and both are essential

 

[hybrid]

1. Is man the center piece and primary purpose for God’s creation?

NO, CHRIST IS.

2. What does God desire for mankind?

TO KNOW HIM

3. What is God’s plan for man?

TO KNOW HIM

4. What is the general purpose of God’s doctrines/teachings?

TO KNOW HIM

5. What is God’s ultimate motive for all that He does?

TO KNOW HIM

6. Is a major part of Christ’s mission to be an example for humanity?

YES

7. Are we to become like Christ?

YES BY BEING ONE WITH HIM


.

 

[stranger]

7. Are we to become like Christ?

Yes. To be a disciple is to become like your Master.

Luke 14:27 And whoever does not bear his cross and come after Me, he cannot be My disciple.

Luke 6:40 The disciple is not above his master, but everyone who is perfect shall be like his master.

John 21:22 Jesus said to him, If I desire that he remain until I come, what is that to you? You follow Me.

Ay there's the rub [for now] ... we cannot be sinless now, we continue to sin and Jesus was sinless.... only the FEW find the narrow way of saints in this life, the many die still sinners , still sinning , and are only freed in death :-

Romans 6:7 For he that is dead is freed from sin.

 

[Tkjjc]

Several Questions if you please –
No major scriptural study is required. Just simple answers to very simple questions.

1. Is man the center piece and primary purpose for God’s creation?

No, the primary pieces was started in heaven.

2. What does God desire for mankind?

To be able to restore that which was lost

3. What is God’s plan for man?

Having given us free will, He is enabling all humanity to be able to complete and restore heaven.

4. What is the general purpose of God’s doctrines/teachings?

This is the blueprint of His way to get there.

5. What is God’s ultimate motive for all that He does?

Again to restore heaven back to completeness.

6. Is a major part of Christ’s mission to be an example for humanity?

No, the primary purpose of the mission was to become a sacrifice for sin. We got the bonus with His ministry as an example of how to achieve the entirety of the message of his Word.

7. Are we to become like Christ?

Yes, in order to get to heaven one must pick up their cross and follow Him, as He was the Way to get there.



What are yours btw, since you are asking us?

 

[Tkjjc]

Ay there's the rub [for now] ... we cannot be sinless now, we continue to sin and Jesus was sinless.... only the FEW find the narrow way of saints in this life, the many die still sinners , still sinning , and are only freed in death :-

Romans 6:7 For he that is dead is freed from sin.

Why not? Is it that hard? I actually find it fairly easy to abstain from sin, but I do sometimes unknowingly do that which I despise, but I always have my advocate in Jesus.

Maybe this is why that Jesus said few get in, but what of the rest? Why would Jesus tell people to not sin any longer, if they could not do that? Why is it preached throughout the bible to not sin, and then you say that you can, and still get to heaven?

Yes, Paul used that verse to let everyone know, that to be dead , is absolute freedom from sin. Duh, of course we know this, even if he didn't write it. Dead is dead. How can you sin, if you are dead?

 

[stranger]

Having given us free will, He is enabling all humanity to be able to complete and restore heaven.

Hi tkjjc,
According to God, He has the power to chnage men's wills, even to cause rebelliuos Israel to both accept Him and become His people [Heb 8:8-12] despite their breaking His old covenant with them

So man's will is not free from the witness of truth in our hearts, not free from God

Thus God says that He has the means to save all men and the will to save all men ... men thus are not free-willed in the sense of being independent of God then :-

Isaiah 59:1 Behold, the LORD’S hand is not shortened, that it cannot save ...

1 Timothy 2:4 Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.

2 Corinthians 6:16 ...as God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in them; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people.

Heb 8:10 ... I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:

---Equally it is God who causes the strong delusion of sinners that keeps men as [unloving] sinners :-

2 Thessalonians 2:11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:

Rom 9:21 Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour?
22 What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction:
23 And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory,
24 Even us, whom he hath called, not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles?

There is no free-will here , God dictates who is fitted to destruction in death and who redeemed in this earth [not that He doesn't also redeem those who die ... later but equally certainly]

Again where the free-will when those redeemed first are pre-destinated to be saved first [and so equally those redeemed later are predestinated to be saved later] :-

Romans 8:29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.
30 Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.

Ephesians 1:5 Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,
Ephesians 1:11 In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will:

 

[Tavita]

There are two coverig cherubim at the throne of God , so the centre-pieces are two ... Jesus is indeed the manifestation of the Word ['Logos'] , the right-hand cherub, who is God from the beginning , but consider also the role of the other cherub on the left hand of God who has equal status to the Word but a different and complementary role in God's plan for the earth and heavnes and for mankind:-

Ezekiel 28:16 By the multitude of thy merchandise they have filled the midst of thee with violence, and thou hast sinned: therefore I will cast thee as profane out of the mountain of God: and I will destroy thee, O covering cherub, from the midst of the stones of fire.

This clearly is not Jesus , but the left-hand cherub , Satan, so why is God destroying that which He created perfect ? :-

Ezekiel 28:15 Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee.

Nevertheless, the scripture says that ALL things were created by/for the right hand cherub, Christ. AND it is His blood that entirely covers the mercy seat now.

The answer lies in the very purpose of God in the earth ,spoken of in Isaiah 14 and expanded on in other scriptures, notably perhaps Ezek 28 ansd 2Thess 2 ...

God indeed establishes that perfect love is the only way to redemption to the spirit [salvation] by the manifestation of the right-hand cherub as Jesus Christ , the long-awaited messiah, annointed king of the troubled and divided nation of Israel, come to re-unite the nation's two Houses under himself and form them into a perfect priesthood [the order of Melchisedec/Melchizedek] of kings to rule and minister to the many in the kingdom of God come in the righteous new earth , as promised by God long ago [but not yet made a reality since many things must happen in this earth first] :-

Exodus 19:6 And ye shall be unto me a kingdom of priests, and an holy nation. These are the words which thou shalt speak unto the children of Israel.

2 Peter 3:13 Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.

Since righteousness is simply keeping God's law of love which Jesus too commanded, the new earth kingdom of God is the realisation of the salvation of the many [Rev 7:9-10] by means of the ministry of the very few who find the narrow way of sainthood, of following Jesus in perfection of love, in righteoiusness, in holiness, in this earth...

Agreed.

Why then does God choose to take only the few first, who go by this narrow strait way of perfect love ,and the many afterward [Rev 7:9-10] ? :-

Matthew 7:14 Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.

And also, because those who enter by the strait way are the firstfruits.

Rev 7:9 After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands;
10 And cried with a loud voice, saying, Salvation to our God which sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb.

I'm not disagreeing with you and what you say below (it's hard to interpose in what you've written) but we also have to remember that there have been many many christians in the last two thousand years. And this will indeed look like a great multitude to us.

Why the delay in redeeming the many? Why not in this earth at the return of Jesus?

Again God explains in scripture , not only that redemption is by means of the minstry of the few as kings and priests in the new earth :-

Revelation 5:10 And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth.

John 18:36 Jesus answered, My kingdom is not of this world:

[Jesus rules then as king of these kings on earth, but NOT THIS earth... thus the kingdom come to the many is in the new earth, and the many are obedient to Jesus, righteous and loving there, perfecting their love in preparation for judgment of their works in the new earth by God.... and just as importantly the many, who were sinners to death in this earth, are freed from that sin by their death ...and so the second resurrection is their opportunity for redemption through following Jesus in the righteous kingdom of God come at last upon the earth ]

Romans 6:7 For he that is dead is freed from sin.

Whew! You say a lot within a couple of paragraphs, but I think I agree.. I'm not sure on all of it, I'd have to take the time to study it...

This explains why Jesus said that he came only for the House of Israel [lost and paganised descendants of Jacob living for millenia as gentiles] and why the covenant of grace[ Heb 8:8-12] is only with the House of Judah [Jews] and the lost house of Israel, the two parts of the still-divided nation of Israel , as it says, it is ONLY with the descendants of those who broke the old covenant :-

Heb 8:8 For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah:
9 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers...Matthew 15:24 But he [Jesus] answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the House of Israel.

Yes, I agree concerning the joining of the House of Judah and the House of Israel.

The role of Jesus then is to gather the two Houses together into one holy nation which will serve as kings and priests in the new earth kingdom of God come at last to all men in the new earth... and that is what he said that he came to do... and why? ... because that is the way to go about the redemption of the many afterward, get the kings and the priesthood perfected first

Yep.

BUT what else , other than the redemption of mankind? God love ALL His creation and is committed to saving ALL created beings , that includes even the hardest one to save, Satan himself :-

I'm very new to universalism and haven't quite got my head around the 'God saving Satan' bit yet.

 

[stranger]

Why not? Is it that hard? I actually find it fairly easy to abstain from sin, but I do sometimes unknowingly do that which I despise, but I always have my advocate in Jesus.

As you have said, it is possible [not easy for some] to cease from sin that one recognises as sin ... but one cannot stop sinning the sins which one's mind has accepted [say as normal everyday behaviour, instituted behaviour, traditions, things one censors one's conscience over, etc]... thus one sins every day, sometimes without batting an eyelid at things which are wholly unacceptable to God, say the injustice of standing by whilst 40,000 little kids starve to daeth in misery every single day, the inequalities of using our money system with its unjust balances which rob the poor to give even more to the rich who do not need it, a thousand things which have become integral to modern 'life' but which are deeply evil to God, the mark of the beast in our actions [right hand] and our thinking [frontlets] without which we could not buy or sell ... !

We are locked into sin because we cannot even see how nakedly sinful we are to God, we are blind to what we have become because we cannot even bear to look at what we truly have turned ourselves into :-

Revelation 3:17 Because thou sayest, I am rich, and increased with goods, and have need of nothing; and knowest not that thou art wretched, and miserable, and poor, and blind, and naked:... [Jesus' revelation from God ]

Yet a single sin is as bad as breaking the whole law of love :-

James 2:10 For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.

Compare this then to the few saints who follow Jesus in this life :-Matthew 5:48 Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.

---The saints are no longer sinners and their past sins are thus forgiven :-

Ezek 18:21 ¶ But if the wicked will turn from all his sins that he hath committed, and keep all my statutes, and do that which is lawful and right, he shall surely live, he shall not die.
22 All his transgressions that he hath committed, they shall not be mentioned unto him: in his righteousness that he hath done he shall live.

This then is grace, unmerited forgiveness of past sins, but in this world it is only for those few who find the narrow way of saints and CEASE to sin completely during their life in this world ...

In order to do this , to perfect their love and thus to follow Jesus in siless love in life, they must FIRST receive baptism of the spirit to know all truth to be able to fully repent and then to see through Satan's temptations to sin, even those which they had previously put out of mind, the vast number of everyday hidden censored sins that few people even notice any more because they are commonplace, 'normal' for this world... the ones we are most blind to ...

John 16:13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth:

The first truth God teaches His few saints of this earth then is the truth about themselves, and this is what generates full repentance, not simply being aware of a few sins one does ... it is complete to the core of the heart, it dispels all will to sin and all sin so that the saints are as perfect as the father , one simply cannot do this of oneself :-

Ephesians 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

It is God then who decides who will be saved in this earth and who in the new earth, not us... in fact He knew from the beginning :-

Romans 8:29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.

Thus it is foolishness to think that Jesus advocates we sinners, he has said otherwise , he advocates only the forgiveness of those whom God gave him to be saints in this earth [but he will advocate the many when the time comes in the new earth when many are saints in the righteous new earth and require their sins in this earth forgiven them] :-

Matthew 7:23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

Maybe this is why that Jesus said few get in, but what of the rest?

Read it again ,more carefully, the FEW find the narrow way of saints in THIS earth before Jesus' return, but the MANY who go by the broad way through destruction in death alsoare saved, just afterward - Rev 7:9-10 - according to Jesus !

Did you never read this? ... why? ... just too busy listening to what sinners tell you to believe ?

Why would Jesus tell people to not sin any longer, if they could not do that?

Well Jesus actually only commanded his discuiples not to sin, no-one else ... it is your careless reading of words not addressed to you which misled you on that one, not Jesus... but everyone could at least stop the sins which they know are sins , something which would lessen the deep woe of finding out the WHOLE truth about ourselves from God Himself in spirit baptism [promised to all men eventually -Joel 2:28- , but most men die sinners, not knowing all truth from God, so baptism of the masses cannot occur until after the second resurrection]

Why is it preached throughout the bible to not sin, and then you say that you can, and still get to heaven?

I didn't say that anywhere , you made that up !! ... sinners cannot be redeemed until they are baptised of the spirit and by 'fire' [trial to perfect love during life in the body] ... sinners can abnd do become saints, a few God chose in this life who will be the kings and priests in the new earth, but countless many saints in the new earth kingdom come ... and all WERE sinners until God Himself baptised them , whether now or after death in the righteous new earth :-

2 Peter 3:13 Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.

Yes, Paul used that verse to let everyone know, that to be dead , is absolute freedom from sin. Duh, of course we know this, even if he didn't write it. Dead is dead. How can you sin, if you are dead?

You mistake the depth of this statement by Paul, by not considering the state of those sinners resurrected at the second resurrection in the righteous new earth,... living righteously after death and resurrection is all that is required to perfect love and so be translated to spirit [redeemed] at judgment day ... something most christians do not understand because they take their beliefs from sinners instead of from teachings such as this in scripture of the saints ... the saints and prophets are a far better source of the truth tahn all the books and preachings of sinners in the countless divided apostate churches , on the web, and in books ...

 

[Tkjjc]

Read it again ,more carefully, the FEW find the narrow way of saints in THIS earth before Jesus' return, but the MANY who go by the broad way through destruction in death alsoare saved, just afterward - Rev 7:9-10 - according to Jesus !

Did you never read this? ... why? ... just too busy listening to what sinners tell you to believe ?

I will try and explain to you a little more nicer than you have shown me,,ok? I read the Bible. This is my source for the Truth. K? I pray for understanding that I might know the path to live righteous(SINLESS LIVING).
Revelation 7:9-10, you have shown that you misunderstand completely. These people have come out of the great tribulation. Their robes are washed clean with Jesus's Blood. This isn't everyone on the planet, these are Christians in the truest sense of the word. They died for and in their beliefs.

The broad way to destruction as quoted by Jesus, doesn't mean saved,,,it means DESTROYED.

The Narrow and Wide Gates


Matthew 7

13"Enter through the narrow gate; for the gate is wide and the way is broad that leads to destruction, and there are many who enter through it.


14"For the gate is small and the way is narrow that leads to life, and there are few who find it.


How many? FEW!

 

[Tkjjc]

Well Jesus actually only commanded his discuiples not to sin, no-one else ... it is your careless reading of words not addressed to you which misled you on that one, not Jesus... but everyone could at least stop the sins which they know are sins , something which would lessen the deep woe of finding out the WHOLE truth about ourselves from God Himself in spirit baptism [promised to all men eventually -Joel 2:28- , but most men die sinners, not knowing all truth from God, so baptism of the masses cannot occur until after the second resurrection]

John 8
10Straightening up, Jesus said to her, "Woman, where are they? Did no one condemn you?" 11She said, "No one, Lord." And Jesus said, "I do not condemn you, either Go From now on sin no more."

Hebrews 10
26For if we go on sinning willfully after receiving the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, 27but a terrifying expectation of judgment and THE FURY OF A FIRE WHICH WILL CONSUME THE ADVERSARIES.

1 John 3

1See how great a love the Father has bestowed on us, that we would be called children of God; and such we are For this reason the world does not know us, because it did not know Him.
2Beloved, now we are children of God, and it has not appeared as yet what we will be We know that when He appears, we will be like Him, because we will see Him just as He is.
3And everyone who has this hope fixed on Him purifies himself, just as He is pure.
4Everyone who practices sin also practices lawlessness; and sin is lawlessness.
5You know that He appeared in order to take away sins; and in Him there is no sin.
6No one who abides in Him sins; no one who sins has seen Him or knows Him.
7Little children, make sure no one deceives you; the one who practices righteousness is righteous, just as He is righteous;
8the one who practices sin is of the devil; for the devil has sinned from the beginning The Son of God appeared for this purpose, to destroy the works of the devil.
9No one who is born of God practices sin, because His seed abides in him; and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.
10By this the children of God and the children of the devil are obvious: anyone who does not practice righteousness is not of God, nor the one who does not love his brother.

 

[Tkjjc]

and all WERE sinners until God Himself baptised them , whether now or after death in the righteous new earth :-

And where is this exactly?

 

[stranger]

Nevertheless, the scripture says that ALL things were created by/for the right hand cherub, Christ. AND it is His blood that entirely covers the mercy seat now.

Not quite sure what significance you attach to this, but the left-hand cherub, Satan, is also killed [for blasphemy] in his manifestation as the man of sin , the 'antichristos' [one 'in place of 'christ, 'vicar' of christ] :-

Ezekiel 28:9 Wilt thou yet say before him that slayeth thee, I am God? but thou shalt be a man, and no God, in the hand of him that slayeth thee.

The blood of both is literally upon the earth, not on the throne of God, but symbolically it is indeed God who is responsible for both deaths ultimately ... so one might say it is upon the throne since it is for God's purpose that both die... simply note that both die though, not just Jesus, although satan's death is just and Jesus' death was unjust [in perfection of love]

I'm not disagreeing with you and what you say below (it's hard to interpose in what you've written) but we also have to remember that there have been many many christians in the last two thousand years. And this will indeed look like a great multitude to us.

It is pointed out by the saints that not all those [christians] who cry out 'Lord, Lord' are due to be saved at Jesus' return, many are deceieved by sinners in this world to beliecve things which are untrue to scripture [hence the deep manyfold divisions of christianity , but only ONE truth of God ... so most of it MUST ,by logic, be untrue, generated by Satan, not Jesus or the holy spirit... and Jesus predicted that this must happen -Rev 13:3-8 for instance

Jeus indeed lists by tribe of Israel the 144,000 [only] saints of the whole period between his first and second coming ... that is but 2000 alive at any one time on average , very few indeed, and scattered all over the world since the seven churches of god were destroyed by Rome [which then took over the name of 'christianity' for its paganised religion as it destroyed most of the Hebrew saints under new laws against the 'Hebrew influences' , like keeping true sabbaths of God as described in scripture as memorials to his plan for the future - memorials still not kept in most 'christian' churches because of Rome's paganism and rejection of the ways of the Hebrew Jesus in favour of their old pagan traditions... such as worship on Sunday ...!]

So most 'christians' will not be redeemed at Jesus' return , one can tell by the numbers alone, let alone the divisions of 'christendom' ... it matters not since all sinners get an opportunity to be saints in the rihteous new earth... it is just that so many are going to be angry and disappointed when left by Jesus because of their iniquity ... all because sinners taught them and they believed it in place of scripture ... but a sad time of confused people gnashing their teeth at God nonetheless and dreading the wrath of the Lamb on their continued sin [no better at not sinning than meny 'non-christians' which they were prone to look down upon as 'non-believers !!]

True belief in the Lord then implies obedience to what he said, to love God and all men at all times ... this is something chrsitian sinners cannot do, jsut as any sinner cannot do it... thus Jesus is not their lord, because they do not obey him... the delusion is strong though, and serves God's purpose for a while :-
2 Thessalonians 2:11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:

Whew! You say a lot within a couple of paragraphs, but I think I agree.. I'm not sure on all of it, I'd have to take the time to study it...

Great. let me know how you get on, especially if you find something that doesn't fit with the rest of scripture...

I'm very new to universalism and haven't quite got my head around the 'God saving Satan' bit yet.

Interesting, that' where I started from.... My heart told me that love is what God shows us of Himself, and thus God loves Satan just as much as anyone ... and that love CANNOT give up on anyone :-

Luke 15:4 What man of you, having an hundred sheep, if he lose one of them, doth not leave the ninety and nine in the wilderness, and go after that which is lost, until he find it?

God would simply not be God without the will and ability to redeem all that He created, the creation IS the very proof of the love of God, that all accept in the end.... and Satan is the most important one to accept love as the way tp etrnal life because he is the most resistant to accepting it, the last to accept it, the prodigal son of God :-

Job 2:1 Again there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan came also among them to present himself before the LORD.

In fact the whole suffering of man can be seen through scripture to be on account of God's love for Satan... even though most men do not realise that they suffer out of love for their brother ... most men have a very false image of Satan from sinners' teachings [for which Satan is paradoxically responsible, but then he wants to project that image at this time so that men will not recognise that the antichrist is not the christ]

I would say too that 'universalism' as a creed carries over many untruths to scripture from the churches , like other denominations it comes as a bizarre 'package deal' of part0truths and falsehoods... it ain't easy unravelling almost two millenia of Satan's wily apostasy of the churches , some very plausible lies abound today wich one can only see through by understanding much scripture [why God allows any sinners to see a little of His truth at all I still do not get ... except if it is a kind of mercy- since the truth hurts most terribly, but hardly as much as the woe we must all suffer when all the truth is given us [Joel 2:28, John 16:13] ... ah well another beautiful sabbath draws to a close, thanks for your comments