Should Believers in Christ be Called Sinners?

[mont974x4]

Even when Paul was blasting people and correcting them he still calls them saints, brothers, fellow workers.

 

[sawdust]

To start out on scripture, I first chose this verse...
2 Corinthians 5:21, God made him who had no sin to be sin for us, so that in him we might become the righteousness of God.

Since Jesus has fulfilled what is said here about him becoming sin for us, we are now, through faith, the righteousness of God.

So are we sinners or the righteousness of God in Christ? You can't be both, or can you?

Hey Neph

Sorry if this has been addressed but it's too early in the morning to read through all 4 pages of this thread.

Need more coffeeeee .....

Christ is the righteousness of God.

But now a righteousness from God, apart from law, has been made known, to which the Law and the Prophets testify Rom.3:21

The Law and prophets testify to Christ.

You diligently study the Scriptures because you think that by them you possess eternal life. These are the Scriptures that testify about me, Jn.5:39

We receive that righteousness through faith.

This righteousness from God comes through faith in Jesus Christ to all who believe. Rom.3:22

When we believe on Christ we are baptised into union with Him. Our lives, are hidden in Him. The sin nature which is in our flesh is counted as having been crucified (dead) and all our sins, past, present and future are atoned for. When God looks at us, He sees His Son Jesus Christ. This is known as Positional Truth because we have been placed in the position of the fullness of God's righteousness. (Do you need all the verses that speak of this?)

However, none of that is what we have experientially. We still have a body of fallen flesh, we still sin etc.

In order for that fullness of Christ (who is our righteousness) to become ours as a part of our own experience we must be transformed in our thinking.

Do not conform any longer to the pattern of this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind. Then you will be able to test and approve what God's will is—his good, pleasing and perfect will. Rom.12:2

We are what we think! Think in terms of falsehood? That is what you become (after the pattern of Satan). Think in terms of truth? Then you become like Christ (who is the Truth).

My pastor explains it like this. Think of Christ as a trust fund. Every spiritual blessing of the heavenly realms has been placed in Him. (Eph.1:3) These include blessings for both time and eternity. It is a gift of grace which is accessed through faith and it is the gift which keeps on giving more and more as long as the conditions are met. Those conditions being, through faith, worshiping in Spirit and truth.

So we are both, for now. Positionally we stand as the fullness of Christ but how much of that fullness we actually receive in our experience will depend upon our willingness to learn of Him and rest in faith.

Right now, what we are to become eventually, is hidden and won't be revealed until the Resurrection.

I consider that our present sufferings are not worth comparing with the glory that will be revealed in us. Rom.8:18

Not every believer will stand in the fullness of that glory yet even the worst believer in Christ will stand in a glory that makes all else (things of this life) pale to insignificance.


peace

 

[Christos Anesti]

Even when Paul was blasting people and correcting them he still calls them saints, brothers, fellow workers.

True, but he called himself a sinner. It's fine not to call other Christians sinners but we should always consider ourselves the first among sinners.

 

[mont974x4]

I don't think he used the term in the same way many people do today, walking in fear of being flicked off the fence by God for the tiniest transgression.

I am a saint who sins. I recognized the glory in that fact only as being the work of Christ..otherwise I would be a sinner and not a saint, not an adopted son of Most of High, and not a member of the royal priesthood.

 

[bbbbbbb]

As someone once observed, there are only two kinds of people on this earth - lost sinners and saved sinners. Which are you?

 

[mont974x4]

there are saints and sinners, sheep and goats, wheat and tares.

I am a saint, sheep, wheat.

 

[UnionJack]

Well said bbbbbbb

 

[The Penitent Man]

The question implies that as Christians we are sinless. Obviously, this is not the case. I would definitely call myself a sinner. If you are too proud to call yourself a sinner, you can't be a Christian. If you don't believe that sin exists, you'll have no use for the Word at all.

 

[mont974x4]

I am not denying the existence of sin, or that I do occasionally sin. However when it comes to labels I prefer to focus on the ones God has chosen for us.

 

[Memento Mori]

Occasionally sin? How do you do it? I can't seem to go a day without falling short of God's standard before lunchtime.

 

[visionary]

Ohhhh, I agree... Humility is the only way one is going to prepare the heart for what God bring. One thing is for sure, in the presence of God we are all going to find ourselves totally unworthy.

Like Daniel 9:18 we are going to find "My comeliness was turned in me into corruption, and I retained no strength."

Saints are repentent sinners. Even Job said " I abhor myself, and repent in dust and ashes." Job 43:6. It is this state of sincere repentence when God reveals sin, that allows for the transformation to occur in us.

Isaiah said "Woe is me, for I am undone." Those who have never experienced being in the Awesome Presence of the Holy One of Israel, can not understand the High Calling.

Isaiah 6:3 and John the Revelator fell as one dead before the feet of the angel. Rev 22:8. To even be spiritual prepared to being in His Presence takes fasting and prayer. Most people are not willing to sacrifice all this world has to offer, to be in His Presence. Not that God is going to taker this world away, but that the Lord is needing to take the love for the things of earth out, and if that is not willingly sacrificed, then God can not approach in all His Holiness.

The comparison of Holy with the unclean causes the unclean to abhor themselves, to lose strength, and recognise how sin has corrupted them so bad.

Reminds me of a thankful prayer before even getting out of bed and recognizing that even before the day has started, the sins are already besetting the mind.

 

[ticker]

Should Believers in Christ be Called Sinners?

Of course not. Should unbelievers be called saints???

1 Corinthians 6:9-11 - "Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers....will inherit the kingdom of God. Such were some of you; but you were washed, but you were sanctified, but you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and in the Spirit of our God."

1 Corinthians 1:2 - "To the church of God which is at Corinth, to those who have been sanctified in Christ Jesus, saints by calling, with all who in every place call on the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, their Lord and ours."

Amazing how some Christians will refuse to see the obvious truth of the good news of scripture solely because it's speaks against what they want to believe.

Peace

 

[nephilimiyr]

Should Believers in Christ be Called Sinners?

Of course not. Should unbelievers be called saints???

1 Corinthians 6:9-11 - "Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers....will inherit the kingdom of God. Such were some of you; but you were washed, but you were sanctified, but you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and in the Spirit of our God."

1 Corinthians 1:2 - "To the church of God which is at Corinth, to those who have been sanctified in Christ Jesus, saints by calling, with all who in every place call on the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, their Lord and ours."

Amazing how some Christians will refuse to see the obvious truth of the good news of scripture solely because it's speaks against what they want to believe.

Peace

2 Corinthians 5:16-17, So from now on we regard no one from a worldly point of view. Though we once regarded Christ in this way, we do so no longer. Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation; the old has gone, the new has come!

I don't know about the rest of you but I want to consider myself only to the new creation I have become. I don't want to look back, like Lot's wife, and view myself as what I once was.

The religious people always want to ignor this verse and when forced to answer to it they twist it to mean something else, or input meanings or connotations to it that totally destroys what Paul was saying.

We are no longer sinners, we are the righteousness of God in Christ Jesus. Even when we continue to sin that does not make us who we are for Christ Jesus has made us who we really are! And I praise him everyday for doing that for me!!

 

[mont974x4]

2 Corinthians 5:16-17, So from now on we regard no one from a worldly point of view. Though we once regarded Christ in this way, we do so no longer. Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation; the old has gone, the new has come!

I don't know about the rest of you but I want to consider myself only to the new creation I have become. I don't want to look back, like Lot's wife, and view myself as what I once was.

The religious people always want to ignor this verse and when forced to answer to it they twist it to mean something else, or input meanings or connotations to it that totally destroys what Paul was saying.

We are no longer sinners, we are the righteousness of God in Christ Jesus. Even when we continue to sin that does not make us who we are for Christ Jesus has made us who we really are! And I praise him everyday for doing that for me!!

1Pe 2:9 But you are A CHOSEN RACE, A royal PRIESTHOOD, A HOLY NATION, A PEOPLE FOR God's OWN POSSESSION, so that you may proclaim the excellencies of Him who has called you out of darkness into His marvelous light;
1Pe 2:10 for you once were NOT A PEOPLE, but now you are THE PEOPLE OF GOD; you had NOT RECEIVED MERCY, but now you have RECEIVED MERCY.

Praise and thanks be to God!!!

 

[ticker]

I don't know about the rest of you but I want to consider myself only to the new creation I have become. I don't want to look back, like Lot's wife, and view myself as what I once was.

The religious people always want to ignor this verse and when forced to answer to it they twist it to mean something else, or input meanings or connotations to it that totally destroys what Paul was saying.

We are no longer sinners, we are the righteousness of God in Christ Jesus. Even when we continue to sin that does not make us who we are for Christ Jesus has made us who we really are! And I praise him everyday for doing that for me!!

Praise and thanks be to God!!!

Wonderful to see people rejoincing in the good news. That's what it's all about!....rejoicing!....something you hardly ever see from the staunchly religious.

 

[The Penitent Man]

I'm a sinner and a believer. I don't consider myself better than anyone because I believe.

 

[ticker]

I'm a sinner and a believer. I don't consider myself better than anyone because I believe.

So...Christianity to you is just a belief thing?....and that you're no different than, say, a muslim or an athiest because of what you believe?

Ever wonder what God considers you as?

 

[nephilimiyr]

So...Christianity to you is just a belief thing?....and that you're no different than, say, a muslim or an athiest because of what you believe?

Ever wonder what God considers you as?

I was thinking of the same response but here's another one.

The poster said"I'm a sinner and a believer. I don't consider myself better than anyone because I believe."
The Question I have is, why doesn't this guy consider himself better than anyone else? God, the maker of the universe has made him a son yet this person doesn't think this is anything special? No, he considers himself like everybody else.

But let's look closer at the word "better", because this can mean different things to all of us. If "Better" means righteousness than you bet I do believe I am better than most. If better means that I myself don't ever screw up, then you bet I am not better than anybody else.

 

[nephilimiyr]

Wonderful to see people rejoincing in the good news. That's what it's all about!....rejoicing!....something you hardly ever see from the staunchly religious.

Of course they're not rejoicing, they're too sin conscience. They may believe God forgives and forgets their sins but they sure don't, or should I say, we all sure don't act like it? Even when I try not to be sin conscience and believe I am not a sinner I still struggle with believeing that fact.

 

[mont974x4]

I'm a sinner and a believer. I don't consider myself better than anyone because I believe.

I'm afraid you misunderstand. It is not how we think of ourselves, but how God thinks of us. We are embracing the truth as God sees it, acknowledging who He says we are and what He has done in us. Praise God!