Shades of Schiavo?

[jayem]

"When the Terri Schiavo controversy first turned into a full-blown national story -- in March 2005 -- no one was sure of its political implications. Even some Democrats feared it was a loser for them. But after congressional Republicans and the Bush White House acted to keep the Schiavo alive, despite being in a vegetative state and despite her husband's wishes that her feeding tube be removed, their move backfired. The American public thought they went too far, and it marked the beginning of the end of GOP control over Congress and the White House. Flash forward almost seven years later, and is history repeating itself? Just like with the Schiavo case, we're unclear how the debate over contraception, women's health, and religious liberty will play out. But after the Obama White House initially bungled its contraception rollout and especially after it released its accommodation compromise, there are warning signs this week that the GOP has taken that issue -- and other social ones -- too far..."

This is exactly what I've thought for a while. Repubs want voters to think the issue is rights of conscience, but the more they harp on it, they more they risk coming off as being anti-birth control in general. The nitwit remark by that Santorum backer just reinforces this perception. Which would be an unmitigated disaster for the GOP in the Nov. elections. Contraceptive-bashing may appeal to very religious conservatives, but the large majority of voters--especially women--will be repulsed. Republicans had a serious gender gap problem in 2008. They cannot afford a backlash among women voters this year.

First Read - First Thoughts: Shades of Schiavo?

 

[chaz345]

I think someone's reaching heavily in trying to draw a connection between the Schiavo case and the R's losing control of the legislature and losing the presidency.

 

[Touma]

If the R's balk about small government while fighting a crusade to bring the gov't into the wombs of women (a majority of voters are women, I think), it will be a bad year for them.

 

[jayem]

An anecdote: Our 23 year old niece lives in town. She graduated summa cum laude from college last year. Within 6 weeks, she landed a professional job in her field (imagine that!) Last weekend, my wife and I took her and a few of her college girlfriends to lunch. These young women are all intelligent and politically aware. Words cannot express the level of disgust every one of them had for Republicans. Who they see as exploiting religion in an attempt to make birth control less accessible. I admit this is totally unscientific. But women like this are on track to be among our most successful and productive future citizens. It does not bode well for the Republican party that it is so thoroughly antagonizing them.

 

[Harpuia]

If I remember correctly, the Schiavo case was more a matter of right-to-die without a will. She was killed in the hospice without a will because the husband asked for it, long after the husband found someone new.

I don't know how this relates to them stepping on social boundaries today. I found the Schiavo case more of a guy trying to kill off his old wife via a loophole than a real right-to-die case. If anything, it shows one of the few times the Republicans were inefficient (or maybe they just didn't care) that they needed a congressional bill to go through to keep a feeding tube on her. Go figure.

 

[chaz345]

An anecdote: Our 23 year old niece lives in town. She graduated summa cum laude from college last year. Within 6 weeks, she landed a professional job in her field (imagine that!) Last weekend, my wife and I took her and a few of her college girlfriends to lunch. These young women are all intelligent and politically aware. Words cannot express the level of disgust every one of them had for Republicans. Who they see as exploiting religion in an attempt to make birth control less accessible. I admit this is totally unscientific. But women like this are on track to be among our most successful and productive future citizens. It does not bode well for the Republican party that it is so thoroughly antagonizing them.

A fairly high and largely uninformed disgust with Republicans is pretty common in all people in that age range. Thankfully about half come to their senses after a few years of actually living and supporting themselves out in the real world.

 

[Rion]

That's reaching. At best, your niece and her friends are misinformed or ignorant. No one wants to make it less accessible. Heck, why is this even an issue? The government shouldn't be able to make any company provide insurance if they don't want to.

 

[MachZer0]

An anecdote: Our 23 year old niece lives in town. She graduated summa cum laude from college last year. Within 6 weeks, she landed a professional job in her field (imagine that!) Last weekend, my wife and I took her and a few of her college girlfriends to lunch. These young women are all intelligent and politically aware. Words cannot express the level of disgust every one of them had for Republicans. Who they see as exploiting religion in an attempt to make birth control less accessible. I admit this is totally unscientific. But women like this are on track to be among our most successful and productive future citizens. It does not bode well for the Republican party that it is so thoroughly antagonizing them.

If they're getting free birth control, I doubt they'll be very productive.

 

[MachZer0]

That's reaching. At best, your niece and her friends are misinformed or ignorant. No one wants to make it less accessible. Heck, why is this even an issue? The government shouldn't be able to make any company provide insurance if they don't want to.

There's a pattern developing. The government first forced people to buy a product. Now it's forcing companies to provide a product, and to provide it for free. Is there any facet of life this government feels is off limits as far as exerting its control

 

[Umaro]

If they're getting free birth control, I doubt they'll be very productive.

How do you figure?

regular sex life is also good for health « all about health

 

[MachZer0]

How do you figure?

regular sex life is also good for health « all about health

The whole idea behind birth control is to not produce.

 

[Rion]

How do you figure?

sex life is also good for health « all about health[/url

It's a pun.

 

[childofGod1]

That OP is a real reach. First, the Schiavo case has nothing to do with whether we are forced to pay for contraception or not, and seeond, do you really expect us to believe the Schiavo case was responsible for the GOP losong control of congress?

The young woman and her friends are a perfect example of the ignorance and misinformation the left promotes. The Rs aren't trying to limit birth control, that's a fabrication (AKA lie) perpetrated by unscrupulous political lackeys who care only about winning, and to ---- with the truth. I'm sure their disgust for the Ds will be far more dramatic once they realize how thoroughly they've been manipulated.

 

[Standing_Ultraviolet]

I think that this doesn't really play out logically. First, it assumes that the issues Republicans had in Congress came from the Terri Schiavo case. Only a very short cultural memory would justify that idea. The Republicans in Congress were unpopular largely because George Bush was unpopular. Operation Iraqi Freedom made him perhaps the most hated president of the past few decades, and although it was fairly popular to begin with, by 2006 it had seriously harmed Bush's popularity. Every other program he trotted out was tainted by it, and things that normally would have been somewhat controversial (and really didn't even originate with Bush) like No Child Left Behind became reasons to see Bush as almost a demonic figure. Even Bush's poor public speaking skills started to be looked at as proof that he was not intelligent enough to be president. The public was right to oppose the Iraq War, of course, and right to oppose No Child Left Behind, but the latter would not have been so controversial without the former.

Bush dragged Republican congressmen down with him, because a vote against them was, to the American public, a vote against Bush. They were voting against the War in Iraq, to put it bluntly. Terri Schiavo was probably a blip on the radar of most people, at least when it came to their political decisions.

The second problem with this idea is that, when it comes down to it, there really are issues with the federal government mandating that a religious group do something that it morally can't. The Catholic Church believes that birth control is opposed to natural law, and as such does not wish to provide it (not to even bring up abortion, where most Protestant groups agree with the Catholic Church). The only exception granted is for small organizations primarily serving believers, but this would limit the ability of the Catholic Church to operate hospitals, since they cannot be said to primarily serve believers. It is deeply immoral for a congressional bill to force a person to do what they cannot do according to their religious beliefs, or to give up a major service which they provide to society as a whole (or, as is more likely, to be heavily fined in providing that service, potentially raising its cost).

Catholic hospitals have not provided these services historically, and there has not been a problem. They have contributed greatly to the health of our society. As such, this is just a form of coercion which would force Catholics to violate their religious conscience in providing something which they believe is immoral.

Young adults can be (and often are) just as misinformed when it comes to politics as the general public. The majority of Republicans in Congress are conservative Protestants, and as such have no horse in the race when it comes to whether birth control should be accessible or not. If they oppose the law in its current form, they may do so for the right reason (it is harmful to Catholics who wish to practice their religion while providing services to help others), or for bizarre political reasons related to the Tea Party. Young adults may support the same political ideas that you do, but this sounds like they got their "news" through the rumor mill.

 

[jayem]

The young woman and her friends are a perfect example of the ignorance and misinformation the left promotes. The Rs aren't trying to limit birth control, that's a fabrication (AKA lie) perpetrated by unscrupulous political lackeys who care only about winning, and to ---- with the truth. I'm sure their disgust for the Ds will be far more dramatic once they realize how thoroughly they've been manipulated.

Mary Matalin (conservative Republican) always said that in politics, perception is reality. Perceptions are what I'm talking about. On Friday, House Republicans held a hearing on the birth control issue. A priest, a rabbi, and several ministers testified. But not ONE woman was invited. Give me a break. They can't find a single female religious leader to give her perspective on an issue that directly affects women's interests? And then there's the amendment proposed by Roy Blunt (my own senator ) that would allow any employer's health plan to refuse coverage of contraceptives. What message is the GOP sending to American women?

Spin it any way you like, but if Republicans keep going down this road, they're gonna get creamed. This isn't just my 2 cents. Even the conservative Weekly Standard is saying that GOP prospects for the taking the Senate are looking dim. Most Americans are just not that far right. The Republican party has to show that they represent more than grumpy, middle-aged white men.

Shrinking Senate Hopes | The Weekly Standard

 

[childofGod1]

Mary Matalin (conservative Republican) always said that in politics, perception is reality. Perceptions are what I'm talking about. On Friday, House Republicans held a hearing on the birth control issue. A priest, a rabbi, and several ministers testified. But not ONE woman was invited. Give me a break. They can't find a single female religious leader to give her perspective on an issue that directly affects women's interests? And then there's the amendment proposed by Roy Blunt (my own senator ) that would allow any employer's health plan to refuse coverage of contraceptives. What message is the GOP sending to American women?

Spin it any way you like, but if Republicans keep going down this road, they're gonna get creamed. This isn't just my 2 cents. Even the conservative Weekly Standard is saying that GOP prospects for the taking the Senate are looking dim. Most Americans are just not that far right. The Republican party has to show that they represent more than grumpy, middle-aged white men.

Shrinking Senate Hopes | The Weekly Standard

I had no idea that Mary Matalin was the last word on what constitutes truth, what a revelation...

So you believe that contraception is a women's only issue? Do you have any idea how many men have been emotionally scarred by women's decisions about contraception? It's a HUMAN issue, not a women's issue, and it's way past time we started considering the other two thirds of the human beings (men and children) affected by these issues. Can we please grow up and stop pretending that boys have cooties?!?!?!

 

[MattRose]

If they're getting free birth control, I doubt they'll be very productive.

I'll give you that one, but even a blind squirrel finds an acron now and again.

 

[MattRose]

That OP is a real reach. First, the Schiavo case has nothing to do with whether we are forced to pay for contraception or not, and seeond, do you really expect us to believe the Schiavo case was responsible for the GOP losong control of congress?

The young woman and her friends are a perfect example of the ignorance and misinformation the left promotes. The Rs aren't trying to limit birth control, that's a fabrication (AKA lie) perpetrated by unscrupulous political lackeys who care only about winning, and to ---- with the truth. I'm sure their disgust for the Ds will be far more dramatic once they realize how thoroughly they've been manipulated.

So when you say "The Rs aren't trying to limit birth control" you mean all but Santorum right?

 

[MattRose]

I had no idea that Mary Matalin was the last word on what constitutes truth, what a revelation...

So you believe that contraception is a women's only issue? Do you have any idea how many men have been emotionally scarred by women's decisions about contraception? It's a HUMAN issue, not a women's issue, and it's way past time we started considering the other two thirds of the human beings (men and children) affected by these issues. Can we please grow up and stop pretending that boys have cooties?!?!?!

How many men have been emotionally scarred by women's decisions about contraception is statistically insignificant compared to the number of women scarred. Can you stop pretending that it isn't predominantly a woman's issue?

 

[DaisyDay]

If I remember correctly, the Schiavo case was more a matter of right-to-die without a will. She was killed in the hospice without a will because the husband asked for it, long after the husband found someone new.

After 12 years of being in a vegetative state. Her muscles had wasted away such that her hands were permanently clenched into fists. I would hope that my husband would be more merciful to me and not wait so long to allow me to die.

I don't know how this relates to them stepping on social boundaries today. I found the Schiavo case more of a guy trying to kill off his old wife via a loophole than a real right-to-die case.

That's how it was presented by her parents and their supporters. He took special medical training to be able to care for her and he did for many years until it became clear that the person was long gone and only a shell remained, a shell that could be kept alive indefinitely by artificial means.

If anything, it shows one of the few times the Republicans were inefficient (or maybe they just didn't care) that they needed a congressional bill to go through to keep a feeding tube on her. Go figure.

They cared, but a special congressional bill to interfere with a husband's medical decision for his wife would be a bad idea. And that's speaking as a wife.