Sexual Integrity

[motherprayer]

And that's where we differ in perspective. I don't believe that HE gave us the Bible. I believe the Bible is a man made thing, worked out in committee by those with various political agendas. Therefore - there are parts that give me moral pause - because they conflict with my actual God imbued sense of reason.

It isn't that I use my reasoning to pick and choose which words of His to pay attention to. I use my only conduit to Him (my reason and conscience) to pick and choose over Man's words that have been erroneously ascribed to Him.

That's how I see it

That's cool. My theology is different, but I learned a long time ago to not get into that kind of debate with people. What you have works for you, and what I have works for me.

But as far as THIS subject goes, it isn't even the Bible that makes me so passionate.

 

[DZoolander]

That's cool. My theology is different, but I learned a long time ago to not get into that kind of debate with people. What you have works for you, and what I have works for me.

But as far as THIS subject goes, it isn't even the Bible that makes me so passionate.

Absolutely true.

 

[motherprayer]

And I agree with the bulk of that.

Your situation ought to be factored in - and people ought to know that things aren't 100% guaranteed to work. All of that should be information that is part of the equation, and given. All aspects of every issue should be taken into consideration, and people should be given the respect to actually afford them the ability to come to their own conclusions based upon those realities.

I totally agree.

I look at it like this. Condoms are 98% effective, right? Well that means that 2 of every 100 times they fail. Statistics say 3 in ten of the 21 million teens living in the world are sexually active. So, about 6 million, give or take. Let's cut that in half, for the sake of discussion we'll pretend they are EXACTLY divided between boys and girls. So 3 million teens. Again for the sake of discussion we shall put a number on how many times they "do it" per year, which would be, let's say 50. 3 million teens, 50 times a year, makes 150 million encounters.
Out of 150 million, if they all used it effectively, 2% failure means the condoms would fail 3 million times a year.

That's once for every couple.

If you factor in those who don't use it responsibly, and those who don't use it at all, you lead to an understanding of why the teen pregnancy rate is what it is.

 

[motherprayer]

Absolutely true.

I think, on the surface it would seem you and I have quite different views, but we agree on more than it would seem at first look. I'm a Scripture fanatic, but I don't bash those who aren't. I've only been into Scripture in the last year, before that I felt much like you do about it. There is much that Scripture teaches that's completely different from what modern Christianity makes it out to.

Be blessed, brother. I know its hard to remember that there are people here who believe differently, or have different experiences, but sometimes a reminder helps, gentle or otherwise. Sometimes we say things without realizing how hurtful we can be (lol I'm guilty. Remember the whole american women fiasco?) And it is good to apologize. I appreciate that you did

 

[sdmsanjose]

By EZ
If you think my opinion is nonsense, say so

I did several posts ago. I will reprint it for you below.

I am not that polite of a Christian and would tell EZ that his opinions and thoughts that are contrary to the Bible are nonsense to me.

By EZ
but at least grant me the courtesy of explaining why.

No one has stopped you from explaining why; you explained then you maned-up and apologized to Motherprayer. Congrats!

 

[DZoolander]

I think you misunderstood what I said, though.

When I said "grant me the courtesy of explaining why" - I meant if you're going to say you believe my position is nonsense - grant me the courtesy of explaining why you think that. Simply telling me that you believe it's nonsense is kind of meaningless without the explanation of where I might be mistaken and why.

Like, I'll rarely ever just say "Your opinion is hooey!", without an explanation of why I've come to that conclusion. Without that, it's merely an insult. With the explanation as part of the objection, at least in my view, it's a dialogue of ideas.

 

[Romanseight2005]

I look at it like this. Condoms are 98% effective, right? Well that means that 2 of every 100 times they fail. Statistics say 3 in ten of the 21 million teens living in the world are sexually active. So, about 6 million, give or take. Let's cut that in half, for the sake of discussion we'll pretend they are EXACTLY divided between boys and girls. So 3 million teens. Again for the sake of discussion we shall put a number on how many times they "do it" per year, which would be, let's say 50. 3 million teens, 50 times a year, makes 150 million encounters.
Out of 150 million, if they all used it effectively, 2% failure means the condoms would fail 3 million times a year.

That's once for every couple.

If you factor in those who don't use it responsibly, and those who don't use it at all, you lead to an understanding of why the teen pregnancy rate is what it is.

Actually I think condoms are closer to 70% effective.

 

[Romanseight2005]

Deadly misinformation from ABC News

 

[motherprayer]

Actually I think condoms are closer to 70% effective.

You're right. I switched up BCPs and condoms. I was actually using both when I got pregnant, which just shows that it doesn't matter how careful a person is, sex ALWAYS carries with it the possibility.

This is more important than most parents even think about until they are in the middle of a crisis, taking their child to the clinic for pregnancy or STDs.

 

[DZoolander]

I think, on the surface it would seem you and I have quite different views, but we agree on more than it would seem at first look. I'm a Scripture fanatic, but I don't bash those who aren't. I've only been into Scripture in the last year, before that I felt much like you do about it. There is much that Scripture teaches that's completely different from what modern Christianity makes it out to.

I agree.

I think everyone is striving for the same end - they just have different mechanisms by which they approach it. I don't yield to "scripture" (or more accurately phrased don't yield to quotations of scripture by others in discussion) because I've found in my personal dealings with others that it leads to too much ambiguity where a simple discussion in humanist terms would yield far greater clarity. But that's simply my experience.

Regardless of where we're coming from, I think we both have the greatest good/most righteous end game in mind...so despite the divergent paths of arriving at what's "holy" (and what we put our faith in) - I think the result ends up being often quite similar.

 

[motherprayer]

I agree.

I think everyone is striving for the same end - they just have different mechanisms by which they approach it. I don't yield to "scripture" (or more accurately phrased don't yield to quotations of scripture by others in discussion) because I've found in my personal dealings with others that it leads to too much ambiguity where a simple discussion in humanist terms would yield far greater clarity. But that's simply my experience.

Regardless of where we're coming from, I think we both have the greatest good/most righteous end game in mind...so despite the divergent paths of arriving at what's "holy" (and what we put our faith in) - I think the result ends up being often quite similar.

Exactly. Its just, well, conversation tends to be a bit more productive when words like nonsense are left out wink wink lesson learned?

 

[sdmsanjose]

By EZ
I think you misunderstood what I said, though.

When I said "grant me the courtesy of explaining why" - I meant if you're going to say you believe my position is nonsense - grant me the courtesy of explaining why you think that. Simply telling me that you believe it's nonsense is kind of meaningless without the explanation of where I might be mistaken and why.

Like, I'll rarely ever just say "Your opinion is hooey!", without an explanation of why I've come to that conclusion. Without that, it's merely an insult. With the explanation as part of the objection, at least in my view, it's a dialogue of ideas.

Are you really interested in my explanation? My guess is that you know my explanation but I maybe wrong. Are you really open to considering that most of the Bible is more than a bunch of books made up by men with political agendas? If you are then I am willing to get into a dialogue. You are a good writer so it maybe interesting.


However, before we get into this discussion, you go first; since you were the first one that called someone’s belief and the scriptures nonsense, even though you said it was the wrong choice of words, please reiterate your position on scriptures so that we are clear.

EZ I have read some of your other posts that are on different topics and think that you make some very good points. However this scripture topic that you brought up is not one of those.

 

[Tropical Wilds]

And second, this thread is to discuss what sexual integrity means to you, and what works to maintain your sexual integrity. Open for respectful, objective discussion (appropriate language).

Good luck!

Sexual integrity means a lot of things to a lot of people. Depending on who we're talking about, it could mean chastity, fidelity... I don't know. It all depends. Being faithful sexually to your husband/wife/boyfriend/girlfriend, being chase as a single or a married, engaging in sexual practices with your spouse/partner that are comfortable for all partners morally/spiritually/personally...

 

[ValleyGal]

Good luck!

LOL. I know, right? Twelve pages later.....I've been at a prayer ministry training all weekend and got about 4 hours of very disturbed sleep last night, so I'm too exhausted to even read all the pages. I hope people have been respectful and stayed on topic.

 

[DZoolander]

lol - respectful for the most part - stayed on topic - ehhh not so much.

(guilty)

I'm going to segue the conversation SD and I are going to start elsewhere as to no longer hijack the thread

 

[jminnesota]

yea i just feel for example teens. parents that share gods word with there kids and teach them morals and values and right from wrong and good judement and teach them about sex and how god views sex. and tell them what they see on tv and stuff is not what sex really is. and that its best if they wait til they are married but if they cant wait at least wait til they are adults and they find someone they love and want to be with vs just to have sex just because kinda thing those teens i feel would have better chance to wait. vs a teen whos parents never talk about sex and never talk about relationships and no morals and values. i think you would have less teens having sex and less teens getting pregnant

 

[jminnesota]

Ten Commandments - A Modern Day Paraphrase of the Ten Commandments here are the 10 commandments and one of them is. Do not have sexual relations with anyone other than your spouse. God forbids sex outside of the bounds of marriage.

 

[Hetta]

yea i just feel for example teens. parents that share gods word with there kids and teach them morals and values and right from wrong and good judement and teach them about sex and how god views sex. and tell them what they see on tv and stuff is not what sex really is. and that its best if they wait til they are married but if they cant wait at least wait til they are adults and they find someone they love and want to be with vs just to have sex just because kinda thing those teens i feel would have better chance to wait. vs a teen whos parents never talk about sex and never talk about relationships and no morals and values. i think you would have less teens having sex and less teens getting pregnant

And yet often it is teens from the "holiest" of families that get pregnant. Like Sarah Palin's daughter. Go figure.

 

[jminnesota]

again its about morals and values how well you teach your kids. if your house is filled with love and gods words then it should be a healthy home. with all the teachings i understand that even that kids/teens do have sex but i think if parents teach morals and values the risk is down and they will wait til they are married before having sex.

 

[motherprayer]

And yet often it is teens from the "holiest" of families that get pregnant. Like Sarah Palin's daughter. Go figure.

Or rather, teens from families that believe they are holy lol

I've noticed that there's often a direct correlation between the amount of pride a parent has and how many bad habits their children pick up. It's almost as if, when a person believes they are perfect, which in turn means they are closed off to correction, they also believe their children are perfect, and close themselves off to their children's imperfections also.

Now, to be clear, I'm not advocating for people to "feel bad about themselves" or anything like that. We can't love others as ourselves if we don't love ourselves first. But if we understand our own imperfections - and therefore also the imperfections of our children - without pushing them down and trying to hide them as many Christians tend to do, we can deal with them properly and grow as human beings.