Seattle museum summer camp teaches 12-year-olds 'the art of drag'

[grasping the after wind]

I'm sure this good training for young boys to prepare to engage in future women's athletics completions.

 

[Subduction Zone]

seems we have gone from "we just want to be accepted"(that is fair) to "we want to be equal"(that is fair) to "we want special rights"(not fair) to "we want special rights so we can convert everyone to be just like us"(not fair) AND "we want to start with your children."

Except that no one is doing that. I think this may be projection on your part since you seem to want to force people to be straight. Even at twelve there are going to be quite a few kids in a city the size of Seattle that know that they are gay. There is no need to be taught. You may object to gay kids acting as they naturally are. I don't get to decide what kids become, nor do you. I always wonder a bit about he sexuality of people that bring up the "choice" and "education" claims when it comes to sexuality. Even at five I was heavily attracted by the opposite sex. I don't think that any amount of education or recruitment would have changed me. These sorts of classes are aimed at eliminating the sort of hatred that we see by some who ironically claim to be following a religion of love.

 

[ottawak]

I'm sure this good training for young boys to prepare to engage in future women's athletics completions.

Theatrical make-up and costuming? What sort of athletic competitions were you thinking of?

 

[Ceallaigh]

Be more specific! And speaking of drag queens, a lot of people know Hugo Weaving as Elrond, V, Red Skull, Agent Smith... and as "Tick"

I don't get what you're trying to convey.

 

[Ceallaigh]

Except that no one is doing that. I think this may be projection on your part since you seem to want to force people to be straight. Even at twelve there are going to be quite a few kids in a city the size of Seattle that know that they are gay. There is no need to be taught. You may object to gay kids acting as they naturally are. I don't get to decide what kids become, nor do you. I always wonder a bit about he sexuality of people that bring up the "choice" and "education" claims when it comes to sexuality. Even at five I was heavily attracted by the opposite sex. I don't think that any amount of education or recruitment would have changed me. These sorts of classes are aimed at eliminating the sort of hatred that we see by some who ironically claim to be following a religion of love.

The opposite of love isn't hate, it's indifference.

 

[adrianmonk]

I don't get what you're trying to convey.

Maybe he was referring to a drag race ?

 

[adrianmonk]

Not just Romeo and Juliet. All players in the time of Shakespeare were men, so all female roles were played by boys in drag.

There are very few Kathakali performances in the US, but even to this day, all roles are portrayed by men. Though that is slowly changing.

 

[grasping the after wind]

Theatrical make-up and costuming? What sort of athletic competitions were you thinking of?

Swimming, Mixed Martial arts, Weight lifting etc.

 

[ottawak]

Swimming, Mixed Martial arts, Weight lifting etc.

You do understand, I hope, that drag isn't the same as transexual?

 

[GreekOrthodox]

I don't get what you're trying to convey.

Hugo Weaving who played Elrond in Lord of the Rings, Agent Smith in the Matrix Trilogy, V in V is for Vendetta, and Red Skull in Captain America, played a drag queen in Priscilla Queen of the Desert before all of those roles.

Not a big deal in my book. Drag is simply one small part of theater.

 

[ThatRobGuy]

seems we have gone from "we just want to be accepted"(that is fair) to "we want to be equal"(that is fair) to "we want special rights"(not fair) to "we want special rights so we can convert everyone to be just like us"(not fair)

I was with you 3/4 of the way...

It did start with wanting acceptance
It did move to wanting legal equality
In some instances, it has moved to people wanting "special rights" (certain groups demanding safe spaces on campuses, certain types of decorum at certain parades that would get most people arrested if they did that on a public street, demands about what pronouns everyone else has to use, things of that nature)

However, the last part you speak of, the
"we want special rights so we can convert everyone to be just like us"

I think that one's a bit of a stretch. The "grooming" aspects (while they may exist in some extraordinarily rare cases) aren't common. And the idea that gay people are trying to convert straight people into gay as part of some sexual conquest is pretty far fetched.

If you're talking about the much more vanilla benign premise of "we want the next generation to be ideologically in-line with us so that they'll vote the way we want on things once they're adults", then I may be able to grant you that premise...but it would then need to be pointed out that that would also be true of any Sunday School or Church Youth Group in America.

The entire backbone of the "I should be the one who has the right to promulgate and instill values on certain topics to my child" argument is rooted people wanting to make ideological clones of themselves, yes?

I would assume the reason why my parents dragged me to Sunday School and made me attend the AWANA program for 14 years wasn't because they wanted to me to freely choose whatever values system appealed to me without outside influence...I would think it's because from the time I was 3 until the time I was 17, they were hoping I'd wind up thinking just like them.

 

[muichimotsu]

I was with you 3/4 of the way...

It did start with wanting acceptance
It did move to wanting legal equality
In some instances, it has moved to people wanting "special rights" (certain groups demanding safe spaces on campuses, certain types of decorum at certain parades that would get most people arrested if they did that on a public street, demands about what pronouns everyone else has to use, things of that nature)

However, the last part you speak of, the
"we want special rights so we can convert everyone to be just like us"

I think that one's a bit of a stretch. The "grooming" aspects (while they may exist in some extraordinarily rare cases) aren't common. And the idea that gay people are trying to convert straight people into gay as part of some sexual conquest is pretty far fetched.

If you're talking about the much more vanilla benign premise of "we want the next generation to be ideologically in-line with us so that they'll vote the way we want on things once they're adults", then I may be able to grant you that premise...but it would then need to be pointed out that that would also be true of any Sunday School or Church Youth Group in America.

The entire backbone of the "I should be the one who has the right to promulgate and instill values on certain topics to my child" argument is rooted people wanting to make ideological clones of themselves, yes?

I would assume the reason why my parents dragged me to Sunday School and made me attend the AWANA program for 14 years wasn't because they wanted to me to freely choose whatever values system appealed to me without outside influence...I would think it's because from the time I was 3 until the time I was 17, they were hoping I'd wind up thinking just like them.

And that's an issue anyone can fall prey to, especially in regards to parenting as something that we really should make some attempt to regulate, so we don't have MORE children with twisted upbringings, however well meaning.

It's one of many reasons I don't want to be a parent, since I don't trust myself to even strive for being objective and letting my hypothetical child have true independence while balancing it with boundaries. To say nothing of I myself need more work to even start considering it as a possibility versus my idealized notions when I was in college or such

 

[Ceallaigh]

Hugo Weaving who played Elrond in Lord of the Rings, Agent Smith in the Matrix Trilogy, V in V is for Vendetta, and Red Skull in Captain America, played a drag queen in Priscilla Queen of the Desert before all of those roles.

Not a big deal in my book. Drag is simply one small part of theater.

Drag is more of a big part of the LGBTTQQIAAP+ culture. Like you said, Weaving played a drag queen. Is being a drag queen (or drag king) something the Orthodox Church wants to see children getting into?

 

[muichimotsu]

Drag is more of a big part of the LGBTTQQIAAP+ culture. Like you said, Weaving played a drag queen. Is being a drag queen (or drag king) something the Orthodox Church wants to see children getting into?

Association and direct causation aren't the same thing. That's little different than assuming someone wants to execute gay people because they're associated with an Abrahamic religion that advocates that in their holy books.

LGBTQ+ as a community is broad in what it covers, it's not saying everyone has to participate equally in everything, but that they are a part of it and aren't to be excluded because it makes some people uncomfortable.

 

[Ceallaigh]

Association and direct causation aren't the same thing. That's little different than assuming someone wants to execute gay people because they're associated with an Abrahamic religion that advocates that in their holy books.

LGBTQ+ as a community is broad in what it covers, it's not saying everyone has to participate equally in everything, but that they are a part of it and aren't to be excluded because it makes some people uncomfortable.

Yes it's broad in what it covers and is obviously expanding exponentially.

 

[RocksInMyHead]

Drag is more of a big part of the LGBTTQQIAAP+ culture.

I would say more that it intersects with it. The drag queens that I've seen have been mainly comics, and their drag persona is part of their act: deliberately campy and over-the-top with big hair and overdone makeup straight out of the 80s. They're not running around in that outfit when they aren't performing - it's just a character that they play. The nature of dragging as well as the accepting nature of the community does tend to attract queer individuals, but that does not mean that everyone who drags is gay or trans.

Yes it's broad in what it covers and is obviously expanding exponentially.

It's almost like gay people are people. Funny how that works...

I'd note that what passes for "straight culture" is extraordinarily broad and covers just about anything a person might want to do.

 

[muichimotsu]

Yes it's broad in what it covers and is obviously expanding exponentially.

Again, association is distinct from exclusivity, a principle I was trying to put forward here. I've crossdressed and I never was tempted to change my gender identity or sexuality, still a cis straight man with ace/demi tendencies (which might require explanation, because I'm skeptical anything that isn't in a neat little box is something people wouldn't bother to learn about)

Drag is distinct from crossdressing, though I think it would technically be considered a form of it with more performative elements, like theater. It isn't this sexual thing that has commonly been a mischaracterization to mudsling against the idea of drag queens reading stories to children at libraries (which I would LOVE to see and I don't even have kids or really like to be around them)

 

[Ceallaigh]

I would say more that it intersects with it. The drag queens that I've seen have been mainly comics, and their drag persona is part of their act: deliberately campy and over-the-top with big hair and overdone makeup straight out of the 80s. They're not running around in that outfit when they aren't performing - it's just a character that they play. The nature of dragging as well as the accepting nature of the community does tend to attract queer individuals, but that does not mean that everyone who drags is gay or trans.


It's almost like gay people are people. Funny how that works...

I'd note that what passes for "straight culture" is extraordinarily broad and covers just about anything a person might want to do.

Many keep saying gay and straight as if there were some sort of black and white clarity, when in actuality it consists of umpteen sexual orientations and umpteen genders.

 

[Occams Barber]

Seattle museum summer camp teaches 12-year-olds 'the art of drag' | Fox News

 

[Ceallaigh]

Again, association is distinct from exclusivity, a principle I was trying to put forward here. I've crossdressed and I never was tempted to change my gender identity or sexuality, still a cis straight man with ace/demi tendencies (which might require explanation, because I'm skeptical anything that isn't in a neat little box is something people wouldn't bother to learn about)

Drag is distinct from crossdressing, though I think it would technically be considered a form of it with more performative elements, like theater. It isn't this sexual thing that has commonly been a mischaracterization to mudsling against the idea of drag queens reading stories to children at libraries (which I would LOVE to see and I don't even have kids or really like to be around them)

"a cis straight man with ace/demi tendencies" says a lot. How complex is the whole thing now considering all the sexual identities and gender identities? It seems it would be quite a task listing them all out.