SDA please explain the failed prediction of Ellen White (SDA Prophet)

[bbbbbbb]

Let’s quote it.

Matthew 5:19 Whoever therefore breaks one of the least of these commandments, and teaches men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever does and teaches them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven. 20 For I say to you, that unless your righteousness exceeds the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, you will by no means enter the kingdom of heaven.

Which commandments is Jesus referring to? The Ten Commandments He quotes from them verbatim and note, He says not to break the least of the commandment(s) despite the opposite of what many others teach.

21 "You have heard that it was said to those of old, 'You shall not murder, and whoever murders will be in danger of the judgment.' 22 But I say to you that whoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment. And whoever says to his brother, 'Raca!' shall be in danger of the council. But whoever says, 'You fool!' shall be in danger of hell fire. 23 Therefore if you bring your gift to the altar, and there remember that your brother has something against you, 24 leave your gift there before the altar, and go your way. First be reconciled to your brother, and then come and offer your gift. 25 Agree with your adversary quickly, while you are on the way with him, lest your adversary deliver you to the judge, the judge hand you over to the officer, and you be thrown into prison. 26 Assuredly, I say to you, you will by no means get out of there till you have paid the last penny.

​

27 "You have heard that it was said to those of old, 'You shall not commit adultery.' 28 But I say to you that whoever looks at a woman to lust for her has already committed adultery with her in his heart. 29 If your right eye causes you to sin, pluck it out and cast it from you; for it is more profitable for you that one of your members perish, than for your whole body to be cast into hell. 30 And if your right hand causes you to sin, cut it off and cast it from you; for it is more profitable for you that one of your members perish, than for your whole body to be cast into hell.

Then He adds- FUTHERMORE which means in addition, but notice how He ties divorce under most circumstances with one of the Ten Commandments

​

31 "Furthermore it has been said, 'Whoever divorces his wife, let him give her a certificate of divorce.' 32 But I say to you that whoever divorces his wife for any reason except sexual immorality causes her to commit adultery; and whoever marries a woman who is divorced commits adultery.

​

Oaths can be tied into the 9th commandment- lying

33 "Again you have heard that it was said to those of old, 'You shall not swear falsely, but shall perform your oaths to the Lord.' 34 But I say to you, do not swear at all: neither by heaven, for it is God's throne; 35 nor by the earth, for it is His footstool; nor by Jerusalem, for it is the city of the great King. 36 Nor shall you swear by your head, because you cannot make one hair white or black. 37 But let your 'Yes' be 'Yes,' and your 'No,' 'No.' For whatever is more than these is from the evil one.

Love for our enemies is the greatest commandments and we cannot love God or neighbor by breaking the commandments of God 1 John 5:2-3

38"You have heard that it was said, 'An eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth.' 39 But I tell you not to resist an evil person. But whoever slaps you on your right cheek, turn the other to him also. 40 If anyone wants to sue you and take away your tunic, let him have your cloak also. 41 And whoever compels you to go one mile, go with him two. 42 Give to him who asks you, and from him who wants to borrow from you do not turn away.

43 "You have heard that it was said, 'You shall love your neighbor and hate your enemy.' 44 But I say to you, love your enemies, bless those who curse you, do good to those who hate you, and pray for those who spitefully use you and persecute you, 45 that you may be sons of your Father in heaven; for He makes His sun rise on the evil and on the good, and sends rain on the just and on the unjust. 46 For if you love those who love you, what reward have you? Do not even the tax collectors do the same? 47 And if you greet your brethren only, what do you do more than others? Do not even the tax collectors do so? 48 Therefore you shall be perfect, just as your Father in heaven is perfect.

Yet, you and all other members of your denomination have chosen not to obey the least of the commandments. Anyone who does not obey all of the commandments, including the ten, is guilty of sin.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

I am not being critical to be critical. I am noting that the two greatest commandments are great because they are the principles behind all of the Scripture, not just the ten commandments.

That’s not why I said you are being critical and you twisted the context of what was stated.

If everything hangs on them, then they are not just a summary of the ten.

Again, not what was stated, I did not say what hangs on the law and Phophets was just the summary of the Ten, these are two different thoughts you conflated into one.

Summary of the Ten is love to God - the first 4 commandments is love to God the last six is love to our fellow man 1 John 5:2-3 and all the law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments- Love. However the summary does not delete the details

It is up to you whether you wish to continue the conversation. However, if you are posting in a theology forum discussion of theology is usual and expected.

I have no issues talking about the theology, it is just the constant twistings of what is stated that does not make for a fruitful dicussion.

 

[tall73]

Almost all of the time when speaking of commandments(s) in scripture it is referring to the Ten.

Can you post from scripture where commandments (s) are referring to something other than the Ten?

Is it speaking of the ten here?


Ephesians 2:14 For He Himself is our peace, who has made both one, and has broken down the middle wall of separation, 15 having abolished in His flesh the enmity, that is, the law of commandments contained in ordinances, so as to create in Himself one new man from the two, thus making peace, 16 and that He might reconcile them both to God in one body through the cross, thereby putting to death the enmity. 17 And He came and preached peace to you who were afar off and to those who were near. 18 For through Him we both have access by one Spirit to the Father.

 

[tall73]

That’s not why I said you are being critical and you twisted the context of what was stated.

I pointed out that you reversed the elements in the verse, thereby reversing the relationship. That is not in fact twisting, but untwisting your change to the verse.

Here is what was stated:

SabbathBlessings:
Love to God and man hang on all of the testimony of the Prophets and the Law no doubt

tall73:
You reversed it again.
Matthew 22:40 On these two commandments hang all the Law and the Prophets.”

SabbathBlessings:
I think they are equally to be upheld, but yes I did reverse it.

Tall73:
And by reversing it you missed the point. The two great commandments are the principles behind the whole law and prophets, not just the ten.

SabbathBlessings:
I don’t think I’m the one missing the point. Law and Prophets means the Word of God all of it. You’re being critical to be critical that’s fine, your free will. I’ll probably bow out as I don’t see us agreeing on anything but you take care.

Tall73:
I am not being critical to be critical. I am noting that the two greatest commandments are great because they are the principles behind all of the Scripture, not just the ten commandments.


The law and prophets hang on the two greatest commandments.

Matthew 22:40 On these two commandments hang all the Law and the Prophets.”

If my coat is hanging on a coat rack it is not accurate to say the coat rack is hanging on my coat.

Again, not what was stated, I did not say what hangs on the law and Phophets was just the summary of the Ten, these are two different thoughts you conflated into one.

I was referring to your earlier statement:

It is singular- but the greatest commandment - love to God, love to man - summarize the Ten- the Ten give the details. Exodus 20:6.

The greatest command is not a summary of the ten. The law and prophets, all the Scriptures, hang on the two great commandments.

Matthew 22:40 On these two commandments hang all the Law and the Prophets.”

I have no issues talking about the theology, it is just the constant twistings of what is stated that does not make for a fruitful dicussion.

I did not twist what was said. You twisted what the verse said, reversing the relationships.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

I pointed out that you reversed the elements in the verse, thereby reversing the relationship. That is not in fact twisting, but untwisting your change to the verse.

Here is what was stated:

SabbathBlessings:
Love to God and man hang on all of the testimony of the Prophets and the Law no doubt

tall73:
You reversed it again.
Matthew 22:40 On these two commandments hang all the Law and the Prophets.”

SabbathBlessings:
I think they are equally to be upheld, but yes I did reverse it.

Tall73:
And by reversing it you missed the point. The two great commandments are the principles behind the whole law and prophets, not just the ten.

SabbathBlessings:
I don’t think I’m the one missing the point. Law and Prophets means the Word of God all of it. You’re being critical to be critical that’s fine, your free will. I’ll probably bow out as I don’t see us agreeing on anything but you take care.

Tall73:
I am not being critical to be critical. I am noting that the two greatest commandments are great because they are the principles behind all of the Scripture, not just the ten commandments.


The law and prophets hang on the two greatest commandments.

Matthew 22:40 On these two commandments hang all the Law and the Prophets.”

If my coat is hanging on a coat rack it is not accurate to say the coat rack is hanging on my coat.



I was referring to your earlier statement:



The greatest command is not a summary of the ten. The law and prophets, all the Scriptures, hang on the two great commandments.

Matthew 22:40 On these two commandments hang all the Law and the Prophets.”



I did not twist what was said. You twisted what the verse said, reversing the relationships.

This is what you said
I am not being critical to be critical. I am noting that the two greatest commandments are great because they are the principles behind all of the Scripture, not just the ten commandments.

Which is not what I responded to for being critical. I do not think the Law and Phophets or the Phophets and the Law makes a difference in the order they are stated. Together they mean the Word of God regardless which comes first, but will agree scripture calls it the law and Phophets. This is why I said you are being critical to be critical, not what you claimed above, which is not an arguement I was ever making and a twist of the context.

It is impossible to love God or our fellow man by breaking God’s commandments 1 John 5:2-3- which at the very least include all Ten, as God identified right in the Ten as “My commandments” Exo 20:6. So no one can fufill the greatest commandments to love God or neighbor by breaking the Ten, That does not mean all the law and Phophets hang on the Ten Commandments, again an arguement I never made but in God’s Word they most certainly include them.

Anyway, no point in going back and forth on this, I will leave it as agree to disagree.

 

[tall73]

This is what you said
I am not being critical to be critical. I am noting that the two greatest commandments are great because they are the principles behind all of the Scripture, not just the ten commandments.

Which is not what I responded to for being critical. I do not think the Law and Phophets or the Phophets and the Law makes a difference in the order they are stated. Together they mean the Word of God regardless which comes first, but will agree scripture calls it the law and Phophets. This is why I said you are being critical to be critical, not what you claimed above, which is not an arguement I was ever making and a twist of the context.

You stated:
Love to God and man hang on all of the testimony of the Prophets and the Law no doubt

I was not referring to the order of prophets or law at all. So let's plug in "Scriptures" in your statement instead, since you indicate that is what it stands for:


SabbathBlessings:
Love to God and man hang on all of the testimony of the [Scriptures] Prophets and law no doubt

It is still backwards.

Matthew 22:40 On these two commandments hang all the (scriptures) Law and the Prophets.”

One thing hangs on the other in a relationship. You have reversed that relationship.

 

[tall73]

It is impossible to love God or our fellow man by breaking God’s commandments 1 John 5:2-3- which at the very least include all Ten, which God identified as “My commandments” right in the Ten Exo 20:6.

So now we are back to the question asked by the other poster, @bbbbbbb. Which other commandments do you include with the ten and why? And why do you not include some of the things that God commanded?

Anyway, no point in going back and forth on this, I will leave it as agree to disagree

Your continued participation is always up to you. But if you continue to post on the topic I may continue to respond, if I also want to do so.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

You stated:
Love to God and man hang on all of the testimony of the Prophets and the Law no doubt

I was not referring to the order of prophets or law at all. So let's plug in "Scriptures" in your statement instead, since you indicate that is what it stands for:


SabbathBlessings:
Love to God and man hang on all of the testimony of the [Scriptures] Prophets and law no doubt

It is still backwards.

Matthew 22:40 On these two commandments hang all the (scriptures) Law and the Prophets.”


One thing hangs on the other in a relationship. You have reversed that relationship.

I already said I reversed the order- together they make the Word of God which is something I beleive in, so please stop trying to make more of an arument than what it really is.

However I did not say this:
I am not being critical to be critical. I am noting that the two greatest commandments are great because they are the principles behind all of the Scripture, not just the ten commandments.

Which again is not why I said you were being critical.

Today is supposed to be a joyous occassion although I could not celebrate the Sabbath in church today for personal reasons, I don’t want to spend holy time going over the same arguements, so I am going to sign out of this thread and will unfollow it, but please take care and wish all reading a blessed day.

 

[tall73]

I already said I reversed the order but I did not say this:

I am not being critical to be critical. I am noting that the two greatest commandments are great because they are the principles behind all of the Scripture, not just the ten commandments.

By reversing the order you reversed the relationship. And you earlier said that the two great commandments were a summary of the ten.

Both of those reverse the relationship.

From the principles of love God and love your neighbor all the other requirements in the scriptures flow.

The other requirements hang on these two. So the two are not a summary of the ten commandments. The two are expressions of principles which the ten, and the rest of the commandments as well, spell out. But they do so within a specific context.

And that brings us to a case study, which illustrates this:

Acts 21: 20 And when they heard it, they glorified the Lord. And they said to him, “You see, brother, how many myriads of Jews there are who have believed, and they are all zealous for the law; 21 but they have been informed about you that you teach all the Jews who are among the Gentiles to forsake Moses, saying that they ought not to circumcise their children nor to walk according to the customs. 22 [d]What then? The assembly must certainly meet, for they will hear that you have come. 23 Therefore do what we tell you: We have four men who have taken a vow. 24 Take them and be purified with them, and pay their expenses so that they may shave their heads, and that all may know that those things of which they were informed concerning you are nothing, but that you yourself also walk orderly and keep the law.

Those tens of thousands in Jerusalem who were believers in Christ, and zealous for the law, were keeping everything God commanded, including Numbers 6, regarding the Nazarite vow.

Do you keep all of the commandments they did?

 

[tall73]

Today is supposed to be a joyous occassion although I could not celebrate the Sabbath in church today for personal reasons, I don’t want to spend holy time going over the same arguements, so I am going to sign out of this thread and will unfollow it, but please take care and wish all reading a blessed day.

This was added after I quoted the unedited initial post. God bless, if you wish to discuss later, feel free.

 

[tall73]

I already said I reversed the order- together they make the Word of God which is something I beleive in

I never once spoke of reversing law and prophets or prophets and law. In fact, I did not notice it until you pointed it out. If that is what you gathered from what I said you need to go back and read again.

What I was pointing out is that you reversed the order in the Scripture statement, regarding what hangs on what.

On the two great commandments the other requirements in the scriptures hang.

Or to phrase it another way, from the principles of the commandments to love God and love your neighbor all the other requirements in the scriptures flow.

So yes, not stealing is one aspect of that commandment to love your neigbor. So is the commandment not to put a stumbling block before the blind. So is the command to rise before the grey headed. and honor an old man.

 

[Leaf473]

Today is supposed to be a joyous occassion...

As @tall73 said, "Your continued participation is always up to you."

In my experience, talking about the law is a great way to have a joyful day.

Bible Gateway passage: Psalm 119:14 - New King James Version

I have rejoiced in the way of Your testimonies, As much as in all riches.

www.biblegateway.com

 

[tall73]

@The Liturgist

Note the first line of the Adventist beliefs page on the Trinity:

What Adventists Believe About the Trinity - Adventist.org

What is the Trinity? Why do Adventists believe in it, and how will understanding this concept change your relationship with God? Let's find out.

www.adventist.org

"Seventh-day Adventist Christians believe there is one God. And that this one God is three co-eternal beings who work together in unity."

This is somewhat different than the phrasing of the actual fundamental belief:

There is one God: Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, a unity of three coeternal Persons.

In the Fundamental the term person is used instead of being.

However, note that the use of the term "being" here is in line with Ellen White describing Jesus as the only "being" in all the universe that could enter into all the counsels and purposes of God.

---

Great Controversy chapter 29:

Before the entrance of evil there was peace and joy throughout the universe. All was in perfect harmony with the Creator's will. Love for God was supreme, love for one another impartial. Christ the Word, the Only Begotten of God, was one with the eternal Father,—one in nature, in character, and in purpose,—the only being in all the universe that could enter into all the counsels and purposes of God.
---

Of course, there is one glaring difference, in that the Great Controversy statement only mentions one being in the universe who enters into all the counsels and purposes of God.

 

[tall73]

Another quote from the Trinity belief page on the Adventist web site:

What Adventists Believe About the Trinity - Adventist.org

What is the Trinity? Why do Adventists believe in it, and how will understanding this concept change your relationship with God? Let's find out.

www.adventist.org

How does the Trinity work together?

Have you ever been on a winning team? A team of students at school raising money, a team of coworkers trying to meet a sales goal, a community sports team—it’s fun to be on the winning side. A team has a common goal. While each person may fill a different role, they all work together to accomplish the mission.

The triune God may be compared to a winning team. God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit work together in ways that a human team would never be able to for a common goal.

 

[bbbbbbb]

Another quote from the Trinity belief page on the Adventist web site:

What Adventists Believe About the Trinity - Adventist.org

What is the Trinity? Why do Adventists believe in it, and how will understanding this concept change your relationship with God? Let's find out.

www.adventist.org

How does the Trinity work together?

Have you ever been on a winning team? A team of students at school raising money, a team of coworkers trying to meet a sales goal, a community sports team—it’s fun to be on the winning side. A team has a common goal. While each person may fill a different role, they all work together to accomplish the mission.

The triune God may be compared to a winning team. God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit work together in ways that a human team would never be able to for a common goal.

That is not very far off from the LDS concept of the Godhead.

 

[tall73]

@bbbbbbb

Another quote:

Special Testimonies, Series B, 7 -- SpTB07

The Father is all the fulness of the Godhead bodily, and is invisible to mortal sight. The Son is all the fulness of the Godhead manifested. The Word of God declares Him to be “the express image of His person.” “God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in Him should not perish, but have everlasting life.” Here is shown the personality of the Father. The Comforter that Christ promised to send after He ascended to heaven, is the Spirit in all the fulness of the Godhead, making manifest the power of divine grace to all who receive and believe in Christ as a personal Saviour. There are three living persons of the heavenly trio; in the name of these three great powers—the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit—those who receive Christ by living faith are baptized, and these powers will co-operate with the obedient subjects of heaven in their efforts to live the new life in Christ.

Compare:

Colossians 2:8 Beware lest anyone cheat you through philosophy and empty deceit, according to the tradition of men, according to the basic principles of the world, and not according to Christ. 9 For in Him dwells all the fullness of the Godhead bodily; 10 and you are complete in Him, who is the head of all principality and power.

 

[bbbbbbb]

@bbbbbbb

Another quote:

Special Testimonies, Series B, 7 -- SpTB07

The Father is all the fulness of the Godhead bodily, and is invisible to mortal sight. The Son is all the fulness of the Godhead manifested. The Word of God declares Him to be “the express image of His person.” “God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in Him should not perish, but have everlasting life.” Here is shown the personality of the Father. The Comforter that Christ promised to send after He ascended to heaven, is the Spirit in all the fulness of the Godhead, making manifest the power of divine grace to all who receive and believe in Christ as a personal Saviour. There are three living persons of the heavenly trio; in the name of these three great powers—the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit—those who receive Christ by living faith are baptized, and these powers will co-operate with the obedient subjects of heaven in their efforts to live the new life in Christ.

Compare:

Colossians 2:8 Beware lest anyone cheat you through philosophy and empty deceit, according to the tradition of men, according to the basic principles of the world, and not according to Christ. 9 For in Him dwells all the fullness of the Godhead bodily; 10 and you are complete in Him, who is the head of all principality and power.

Thank you!

 

[Sophia7]

Almost all of the time when speaking of commandments(s) in scripture it is referring to the Ten.

Can you post from scripture where commandments (s) are referring to something other than the Ten?

Are these commandments from the Ten?

Mark 12:29:
Jesus answered him, “The first of all the commandments is: ‘Hear, O Israel, the Lord our God, the Lord is one."

Ephesians 2:14-16:
14 For He Himself is our peace, who has made both one, and has broken down the middle wall of separation, 15 having abolished in His flesh the enmity, that is, the law of commandments contained in ordinances, so as to create in Himself one new man from the two, thus making peace, 16 and that He might reconcile them both to God in one body through the cross, thereby putting to death the enmity.

Hebrews 7:4-6:
4 Now consider how great this man was, to whom even the patriarch Abraham gave a tenth of the spoils. 5 And indeed those who are of the sons of Levi, who receive the priesthood, have a commandment to receive tithes from the people according to the law, that is, from their brethren, though they have come from the loins of Abraham; 6 but he whose genealogy is not derived from them received tithes from Abraham and blessed him who had the promises.

Hebrews 7:17-19:
17 For He testifies:
“You are a priest forever
According to the order of Melchizedek.”
18 For on the one hand there is an annulling of the former commandment because of its weakness and unprofitableness, 19 for the law made nothing perfect; on the other hand, there is the bringing in of a better hope, through which we draw near to God.

1 John 3:23:
And this is His commandment: that we should believe on the name of His Son Jesus Christ and love one another, as He gave us commandment.

 

[bbbbbbb]

Are these commandments from the Ten?

Mark 12:29:
Jesus answered him, “The first of all the commandments is: ‘Hear, O Israel, the Lord our God, the Lord is one."

Ephesians 2:14-16:
14 For He Himself is our peace, who has made both one, and has broken down the middle wall of separation, 15 having abolished in His flesh the enmity, that is, the law of commandments contained in ordinances, so as to create in Himself one new man from the two, thus making peace, 16 and that He might reconcile them both to God in one body through the cross, thereby putting to death the enmity.

Hebrews 7:4-6:
4 Now consider how great this man was, to whom even the patriarch Abraham gave a tenth of the spoils. 5 And indeed those who are of the sons of Levi, who receive the priesthood, have a commandment to receive tithes from the people according to the law, that is, from their brethren, though they have come from the loins of Abraham; 6 but he whose genealogy is not derived from them received tithes from Abraham and blessed him who had the promises.

Hebrews 7:17-19:
17 For He testifies:
“You are a priest forever
According to the order of Melchizedek.”
18 For on the one hand there is an annulling of the former commandment because of its weakness and unprofitableness, 19 for the law made nothing perfect; on the other hand, there is the bringing in of a better hope, through which we draw near to God.

1 John 3:23:
And this is His commandment: that we should believe on the name of His Son Jesus Christ and love one another, as He gave us commandment.

Curiously, I don't find them in my copy of the ten commandments in Exodus 20, so I guess they are merely suggestions or, perhaps, recommendations.

 

[The Liturgist]

That is not very far off from the LDS concept of the Godhead.

Which is full-on Tritheism, basically, as opposed to one God, with one divine essence, abiding in three persons with three hypostases, that of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, the only begotten Son and Word of God, uniting in it both the divine nature of God with the created nature of humanity, so that fallen man might be restored and glorified and remade in the image of God through His redemptive work on the Cross, which is the orthodox doctrine of the traditional Christian churches such as the Eastern and Oriental Orthodox, the Roman Catholics, the Assyrians, the Anglicans, the Lutherans, traditional Methodists, most Calvinists, and so on.