SCOTUS ruling on DC handgun ban.

[EnemyPartyII]

Likely the first American colonists.

I see. Well, I was talking modern era... as the Vikings rate a mention too, but they aren't really what we're discussing.

The entirety of my point, actually, was that the Nina, Pinta and Santa Maria didn't bring ANY colonists

 

[Panzerkamfwagen]

LOL. The only FFL in DC is the VPC.

Heh.

Heh, heh. (This has more detail about the law.)

That's right folks, an anti-gun group is legally required to be selling guns or is in violation of the law (fairly common among them).

 

[jgarden]

Gun ownership in modern America reached a peak in the mid-1970s when 55 percent of American households reported owning a gun, according to the NORC study. In 2006, that share had dropped to 35 percent. Researchers attribute the change to two things: fewer people hunt as a recreational activity and, as the crime rate dropped during the 1990s, fewer people felt the need for a gun to protect themselves ..........

"The vast majority of Americans supported the idea that 9/11 increased the need for regulation of firearms," says Tom Smith, director of the NORC in a taped interview released with the study. "Support for regulation of firearms – for example, requiring a police permit before the purchase of a firearm – is very high [at 79 percent and] did not decline at all because of 9/11."

http://www.csmonitor.com/2007/0420/p03s02-ussc.html?page=2

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The "NRA types" shouldn't take too much comfort from the recent Supreme Court decision.

Despite having a majority of Republican appointments, it was a 5-4 decision while the current number of Americans owning guns has fallen to 35%.

With a new Obama Administration, a few moderate Supreme Court appointments and the further decline of gun owners - the days of the America's "gun culture" are numbered.

 

[HollandScotts]

With a new Obama Administration, a few moderate Supreme Court appointments and the further decline of gun owners - the days of the America's "gun culture" are numbered.

Which is exactly why that socialist shouldn't be elected.

The day the people who hate this country and the freedom we still posses try to strip the rest of it away from us, there will be revolution, and their days will be numbered.

If you do not support this decision, then you not an American.

 

[jgarden]

Which is exactly why that socialist shouldn't be elected.

The day the people who hate this country and the freedom we still posses try to strip the rest of it away from us, there will be revolution, and their days will be numbered.

If you do not support this decision, then you not an American.

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In 2006, approximately 80% of American and 66% of America households didn't own guns.

Your narrow definition of what constitutes "American" - excludes most Americans.

Personally I never thought the political left nor the right "hate" America - but 8 years under Bush Administration and their "neo con" friends could prove me wrong.

 

[Panzerkamfwagen]

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In 2006, approximately 80% of American and 66% of America households don't own guns.

Your narrow definition of what's constitutes "American" - excludes most Americans.

Personally I never thought the political left nor the right "hate" America - but 8 years under Bush Administration and their "neo con" friends could prove me wrong.

You're citing a study published by people who don't even believe in science, and is carried out by what apparently is a fairly anti-gun university.

Yeah.

Real credible source you've got there.

 

[Panzerkamfwagen]

***************************************************************************************************
The "NRA types" shouldn't take too much comfort from the recent Supreme Court decision.

Despite having a majority of Republican appointments, it was a 5-4 decision while the current number of Americans owning guns has fallen to 35%.

With a new Obama Administration, a few moderate Supreme Court appointments and the further decline of gun owners - the days of the America's "gun culture" are numbered.

Did those people control for the fact that by law, a quarter of the US population is prohibited from owning a firearm (because of age)?

 

[jgarden]

You're citing a study published by people who don't even believe in science, and is carried out by what apparently is a fairly anti-gun university.

Yeah.

Real credible source you've got there.

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World's Top 20 Universities - 2006

1 Harvard University
2 University of Cambridge
3 University of Oxford
4 Massachusetts Institute of Technology
4 Yale University
6 Stanford University
7 California Institute of Technology
8 University of California, Berkeley
9 Imperial College London
10 Princeton University

11 University of Chicago

12 Columbia University
13 Duke University
14 Beijing University
15 Cornell University
16 Australian National University
17 London School of Economics and Political Science
18 Ecole Normale Supérieure
19 National University of Singapore
19 University of Tokyo

http://newshub.nus.edu.sg/headlines/0610/ranking_07oct06.htm

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Your people who don't even believe in science,
carried out by what apparently is a fairly anti-gun university.
Yeah.
Real credible source you've got there

I certainly hope we have more than the "informed opinion" of a "Panzerkampfwagen" to back up such comments.

The University of Chicago ranks 9th in America and 11th in the world.
Other surveys rank the University of Chicago 4th in America.

If 11th in the world doesn't meet your high standards, suggest a "real credible source" that does ?????
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Did those people control for the fact that by law, a quarter of the US population is prohibited from owning a firearm (because of age)?

I can only assume, based on your written and reading comprehension skills, you're not a University of Chicago graduate!!!!!

 

[Panzerkamfwagen]

You know how I know the U of C is anti-gun because they're launching anti-gun initiatives.

I can only assume, based on your written and reading comprehension skills, you're not a University of Chicago graduate!!!!!

And I can only assume based on your astute knowledge of this study, that they didn't, which further undermines its credibility.

 

[jgarden]

You know how I know the U of C is anti-gun because they're launching anti-gun initiatives.

And I can only assume based on your astute knowledge of this study, that they didn't, which to prevent youth violence and taking "guns out of the equation" when it does occur.QUOTE]
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City, U. of C. launch anti-violence initiative
By Hal Dardick | Tribune reporter
7:27 PM CDT, April 10, 2008

Mayor Richard Daley announced an effort Thursday to study and combat youth violence involving the city, University of Chicago and philanthropists, but neither he nor professors could provide specifics about what kind of programs might result.

.......... City and school leaders have been frustrated by a recent wave of shootings and beatings that have left 23 Chicago Public Schools students dead this school year.

U of C Professor Jens Ludwig said the effort has two goals: to prevent youth violence and taking "guns out of the equation" when it does occur. Test programs could be implemented as early as this summer, he added, saying that scholarly evaluation of the each program's effectiveness is what is "really new."

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/local/chi-daley-violence-11apr11,0,1248825.story

???????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????
I've encountered some pretty BIZARRE responses in my day - but now I've seen EVERYTHING.

Apparently the 11th ranked university in the world has been discredited, in Panzerkampfwagen's eyes, because it has launched an "anti-violence initiative" to "to prevent youth violence and taking 'guns out of the equation' when it does occur."

That's it - Panzerkampfwagen objects to everything remotely associated with the University of Chicago because its trying to get guns away from violent Chicago youth.

 

[Panzerkamfwagen]

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If you think my information is biased, provide an alternate poll.

Why?

I've already proven that it's not credible.

You're making claims about firearms ownership in the US, so the onus is on you to provide reliable research.

 

[jgarden]

Why?

I've already proven that it's not credible.

You're making claims about firearms ownership in the US, so the onus is on you to provide reliable research.

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Did you ever audition for the Scarecrow in the Wizard of Oz - think about it!

 

[Billnew]

http://www.nraila.org/Issues/factsheets/read.aspx?ID=126

I believe as this sight says, people were afraid of telling people they had firearms,
and fewer people admit to having guns, but really do.

I have about $400 invested in my firearms, I wouldn't be happy, if someone in goverment decided to take them with no reimbursement.

Hard to believe people are not buying guns, when crime is up, police response time is down, and violence happens daily in bigger citys.

http://www.nraila.org/Issues/Articles/Read.aspx?id=202&issue=007
targeting criminals instead of gun owners.

 

[Billnew]

If our conservative "collegues" truly believe that the 2nd Amendment allows the civilian population to keep, "the bureaucrats at bay," why are they so oblivious when the American military is viewed as the "bureaucrats" and face the threat of armed "civilian resistance" in Vietnam, Iraq and Afghanistan.

[/quote]

Lets see,
Vietnam-we lost to thier militia.
Iraq- giving a good run for our money with their militia.
Afganstan-past- triumphed over Russian occupation by thier militia
Afganistan-now-giving us a good fight, with their militias.

Dang, civilian militias don't stand a chance against super powers do they?

Thought this was interesting,
http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2008/may/08/dc-to-arm-police-with-assault-rifles/
DC arming police with assault weapons(AR15 or M16's)

We need to be equally equipped with the firearms that are being used against the police," said Monique Bond, a Chicago police spokeswoman. "If officers cannot protect themselves, they cannot protect residents."

Dang,handguns ban, rifles and shotguns can be stored with gunlocks or disassembled, but police can't do their jobs without
military weapons?
So how can goverment say that the banning of guns is making DC safer? I also believe DC was one fo the first to ban assault weapons, weren't they?

 

[Panzerkamfwagen]

**********************************************************
Did you ever audition for the Scarecrow in the Wizard of Oz - think about it!

It's hardly my problem if you are so credulous as to believe bad data-as long as it supports your view.

 

[jgarden]

Why?

I've already proven that it's not credible.

You're making claims about firearms ownership in the US, so the onus is on you to provide reliable research.

**********************************************************
We both know any poll that I produce that contradicts your personal opinion about guns will be dismissed as "not credible."

Then you refuse to provide "reliable research" to support your own position.

Posting should be enjoyable - but I have no interest in having further discussions with someone whose motives I cannot respect.

 

[jgarden]

http://www.nraila.org/Issues/factsheets/read.aspx?ID=126

I believe as this sight says, people were afraid of telling people they had firearms,
and fewer people admit to having guns, but really do.

I have about $400 invested in my firearms, I wouldn't be happy, if someone in goverment decided to take them with no reimbursement.

Hard to believe people are not buying guns, when crime is up, police response time is down, and violence happens daily in bigger citys.

http://www.nraila.org/Issues/Articles/Read.aspx?id=202&issue=007
targeting criminals instead of gun owners.

**********************************************************

CRIME RATES FALL - 2007

.......... in the first six months of 2007, crime rates dropped for the first time in two years. Nationwide, violent crime fell 1.8 percent and property crime 2.6 percent compared to the same period last year.

... Violent crime fell in all four regions and in each of the four offense categories.
Nationally, murder and non-negligent manslaughter dropped 1.1 percent, forcible rape 6.1 percent, robbery 1.2 percent, and aggravated assault 1.7 percent.

... Among population groups, decreases in violent crime were largest—5.1 percent—in cities with 250,000 to 499,999 residents.

... The largest cities—those with a million people or more—experienced a 6.5 percent drop in murder rates, a 14.2 percent drop in forcible rape, a 4.3 drop in robbery, and a 3.3 drop in aggravated assault.

... Property crime also declined in all offense categories: burglary (1.3
percent), larceny-theft (2.1 percent), and motor vehicle theft (7.4 percent).
... Arson, which is measured separately, fell 9.7 percent across the country.

http://www.fbi.gov/page2/jan08/ucr_statistics010708.html

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Hard to believe people are not buying guns, when crime is up, police response time is down, and violence happens daily in bigger citys.

Strange, but the gun owners appear oblivious to the fact that national crime is on the decrease. Now that its been brought to their attention, I'm sure they'll want to be the first in line to take the credit!!!

 

[Panzerkamfwagen]

We both know any poll that I produce that contradicts your personal opinion about guns will be dismissed as "not credible."

No, I dismissed it as not credible because it failed to control for the 25 percent of the population ineligible to posses firearms, was published by an organization that doesn't believe in science, and was carried out by a known anti-gun organization.

Now, why should I take it seriously again?

Then you refuse to provide "reliable research" to support your own position.

The ATF doesn't even know who owns what gun, and the U of C is going to?

 

[Billnew]

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Hard to believe people are not buying guns, when crime is up, police response time is down, and violence happens daily in bigger citys.

Strange, but the gun owners appear oblivious to the fact that national crime is on the decrease. Now that its been brought to their attention, I'm sure they'll want to be the first in line to take the credit!!!

Simple, statistics are national, people see crime in thier area, or neighborhoods.

Crime does go down when the economy is good, crime goes up when the economy goes bad. So, while crime stats are down from the period they have published, it will be up with the current year.

Also crime goes rampant when goverment seems to be non-existent, as in New Orleans. Gun owners protected their property....until goverment came and took their guns.

People buy guns when they feel threatened, or when goverment attempt to restrict guns. (get it now, before we can't get one) We saw this when the assault weapons bans took affect. When looters and criminals are running wild, police are unable to answer all calls, people buy guns. And goverment moves quickly to stop the frantic gun buying. Preventing people from protecting themselves and their belonging.

I also don't know DC's current crime rate, is it down or up?
But I do know, Dayton has violent crime every night, with many of them gun crimes. Police can't stop them, and only can look for something to get on the trail of the shooter.
When I was growing up, I had my bike stolen. The police didn't have the resources to find a petty bike thief. Now the police don't have the man resources to find an attempted murderer.

I also ask, why DC felt the need to arm their police with AR15's, if DC is so safe? If police need assault weapons to fight crime, what is the average citizen suppose to do to protect themselves?