Religion Is Whatever You As An Individual Believe

[SuperCloud]

What does the Eastern or even the Oriental Orthodox person think of this proposition of mine in the title.

Imagine you were a secular government (I know... technically many people make up such an institution) and you desired to have the moral control over people officially called citizens but that you regard as subjects or at least wish to move from being citizens into being subjects.

(Citizens are supposed to be informed, critically thinking people, that effect government or the rules over them as citizens through their voting responsibilities. In contrast subjects don't have the same level of responsibility and do and think as their rulers say.)

How would you do that as a secular government when so-called "religions" stand in your way, compete with you for the minds and hearts of people?

You might promote realms of specialization and group your morality competitors into the category of "religion." Then on everything from condom use to "just wages" you can dismiss as "that's religion and religion should not mix with politics."

I will provide what I believe to be an example in post #2. Makes a post less intimidating to read if it is short rather than long blocks of text.

 

[SuperCloud]

I should note I believe that major news media sources in the USA today are more or less an arm or tool of the US Government.

Okay, so, the Federal Government it appears is preparing to push--at the right political time and right political climate--the US military to allow transsexuals or those that have taken hormones or have had cosmetic surgery to look like the opposite sex, to serve in the US military. Likely when this is approved the US military will be required to finance or even perform all medical and cosmetic aspects to transitioning from one sex to the other (although, technically, from a biological science perspective no human can change the sex they were born--though they can their sociological gender).

I might not have a problem with this, so long as under so-called "equal protection under the law" the US military no longer criminalizes military men injecting testosterone or anabolic steroids and lifting weight. Especially for "ectomorphs," some of whom suffer emotionally and psychologically from being small and frail.

Contrary to what many chair-sitting Americans today think, it is much, much harder for a ectomoprph man (or most bigger men actually) to gain muscle mass than it is for a big boned man to lose body fat. Many men can drop 60 or 80 pounds in 12 months time. Very few if any men can gain 60 or 80 pounds in 12 months time. It might take a man 10 years of dedicated diet and exercise to gain 30 pounds of muscle mass.

So, why is it okay to court martial a US military man using steroids because he is emotionally a psychologically troubled over how his body looks, but morally good to help a US military man take female hormones, testosterone blockers, have cosmetic surgery for breast implants and to put more fat around their hips? Or morally good for a US military female to take testosterone to look like a man?

I used steroids--injected testosterone (Mexican Sten)--when I served in the Marine Corps. About 25% of my company (of the men) seemed to in my estimation going by who I knew used them (it was a closed circle as you could be tested and court martialed).

I was a small male my entire life. I got tired of being small and chose a radical leap to become happy and to this day I have zero regrets using steroids. I didn't have "roid rages" and I ate healthier and in terms of physical health it was the best I ever felt in life. I felt then like I could run through a wall.

All the scare tactics, propaganda against men using steroids is rather absurd. And you don't drop dead--not overnight. I'll wager anti-depressants are far more dangerous. Every drug has a potential negative side-effects. Steroids are no different. But you can't OD on steroids. And if they were so fatal and horrible then its inexcusable doctors can prescribe them to women let alone for cosmetic looks to look more manly.

I'm not against the rights of men to take female hormones or for women to take testosterone. I'm not against people having the protected to have sex changes.

And the US Federal Government would likely argue that opposition, giving court martial to military men taking female hormones and testosterone blockers, and transitioning into a woman is all religion and therefore meaningless subjective bias.

But then what is the objection and irrational fear mongering over regular Joes' taking anabolic steroids for increased muscle mass, especially when people like Joe Biden morally pontificate as to how immoral or unethical it is for the average small guy to take them (or the above average athlete at the college or professional level).

As an aside... I got tattoos on my forearms when I was in the Marines. Now I'm told the US Marines actually bars anyone with tatts on their forearms from entering today. Let me guess. They "morally" object and it's not the "decent" image they want to portray of Marine recruits and Marines? [rolls eyes]

Overtime I have come to believe that whatever you believe then that is your religion. And that begs the question why are you pushing your religion on me and threatening to lock me in a dungeon you call a prison, because I disobeyed your religious laws?

So, like with marriage, if you think a man can have 5 wives then that is your religion. If you think a man can have just one husband and not two husbands because "that would just be 'wrong'" then that is in fact your religion.

Here is an article presented as news story to help indoctrinate American [subjects] with the new religious notions of the secular US Government still bent on persecuting men taking steroids in conjunction with lifting weights. Of course, the secular American Government has successfully convinced Americans that arresting and incarcerating people against US religious laws is not persecution, rather persecution is the audacity to publicly or privately express disbelief in secular government religious laws.

Article: https://www.yahoo.com/parenting/why-im-proud-of-my-transgender-dad-and-the-woman-114773351422.html

 

[buzuxi02]

There isnt supposed to be a secular and a religious. Its a new concept first adopted by communists who wanted to co-opt their very own cultural traditions (self haters), and now its used by democracies. Both the secular and the religious constitute the one and same culture of a people. What we are seeing today is cultural nestorianism.

Thus there is no such thing as individual religion, religion by its very design is collectivist and entails collectivist feasts and the institution of national holidays based on those feasts.

 

[SuperCloud]

Angel Haze Talks MTV, Injustice and New Music - Entertainment & Culture - EBONY

...a bold Detroit native rapper intrigued the hip-hop community... Angel Haze...

The agender pansexual artist, who understands the need to have representation, was nominated for a 2015 GLAAD Media Award for "Outstanding Music Artist.”

​

​

With respects to Angel Haze (I don't know anything about her and never heard of her) in relation to the US Government I don't see her as the problem or a problem. Freedom to be her and freedom pursue her own happiness is arguably a good, arguably a beautiful thing.

The problem is the US Government.

I'm hazarding a guess the direction and push of the US Government will be to pressure the US Marine Corps to allow persons like Angel Haze to serve in the Marine Corps, humping packs, and butchering an enemy of the US Government with a bayonet or tactical knife in the dead of night, for it serves the US empire. And its religious laws abide it--or will abide it.

But the US Government will allow the US Marine Corps to set its own policy of discrimination regarding persons that have tattoos. Apparently, under the religion of the US Government it may be immoral and intolerable to have a male Marine baring tattoos on his arm, coming from behind an armed sentry, and slitting his throat with a battle knife. But its not immoral for a male Marine with breast implants, hips like a woman, and male genitals tucked in his camouflage pants, to come up behind an armed sentry, and relieve him of his duty with the sharp end of his battle knife.

This is the US Government's religion. It may well be one of your religions. But it is not my religion.

Jesus never said He was anyone's religion. He said He was the truth and the light.

 

[SuperCloud]

There isnt supposed to be a secular and a religious. Its a new concept first adopted by communists who wanted to co-opt their very own cultural traditions (self haters), and now its used by democracies. Both the secular and the religious constitute the one and same culture of a people. What we are seeing today is cultural nestorianism.

Thus there is no such thing as individual religion, religion by its very design is collectivist and entails collectivist feasts and the institution of national holidays based on those feasts.

Okay, so, we partly agree, at least in terms of observations of what's transpiring today?

For the record, and this goes out to anyone and no one in particular, I didn't and don't expect anyone to agree with me. It's not one of these things I will get upset over (although I will at the US Government forcing its religious views on me). But I doubt anyone will persuade me to view this any differently than I do.

Also, for the record, I only used steroids for a very short term. Not even a full year. Maybe only for 3 months I think. And I have no desire to return to using steroids. For one reason, when you get off of them you will lose a good portion of your muscle gains. I prefer to have permanent muscle mass gains. And equally if not more importantly, I only have one kidney left after being shot 3 times by a police officer, so, the risk-to-benefit ratio is not sufficiently titled towards the benefit scale at this time for me. At least in my mind. Steroids puts some stress on the kidneys (steroid pills far more than the injectable--which runs contrary to what the average person probably thinks). So, I don't wish to place that stress on my one kidney.

But if I want to use steroids that should be my right. And it should be a legal right for all those serving in the US military if the military allows male soldiers to take testosterone blockers (to decrease masculine traits) in conjunction with female hormones (to increase feminine traits). And American civilians should have the right to take steroids too. Equal protection under the law. And so-called "no mixing religious moral beliefs with laws and politics."

 

[ArmyMatt]

I would agree with the title, and say thank God Orthodoxy is not a religion.

 

[SuperCloud]

I would agree with the title, and say thank God Orthodoxy is not a religion.

Hey, ArmyMatt, I googled up this Angel Haze on Wikipedia. Man, this is one interesting person. Much props to her or him for teaching herself or himself to read an Amerindian language. And given I like people that are different and have these interesting life stories, I'm already liking her or him.

But man is reading about "they" as he or she prefers to be called, is a walk on the wild side . I'm guessing this must be the new agender thing to demand being called as an individual "they" instead of "he" or "she." So, it may not be happening yet but I'm hazarding a guess the LGBTQ Movement will pick this cause up and militantly crusade for it in the near future. Demanding psychologist and people in the natural science teach adult Americans and children that agender people were born as "they" trapped in body of one biological sex. Via lobbying efforts and backed by the US Government dismissing any objection to this as "merely religion" some in the sciences will produce science papers concluding they have found a genetic link between "they" of agender people and the single body. That study of their brains shows "they" were born "they" that way.

With these Bishops of the US Government and the Bishops of science and psychology pontificating on high, drawing up whatever fictional stories they desire, using mathematical statistics to make it all sound "smart" and above politically, socially biased agenda driven, American adults will lap it all up with blind faith.

But they will claim their blind faith beliefs are not religious. But to me they are.

Angel Haze - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Raeen Roes Wilson (born July 10, 1992),[2] better known by their stage name Angel Haze, is an American rapper and singer. born in Detroit, Michigan, and grew up in the Greater Apostolic Faith.[3] In 2012, Haze released their EP Reservation for free online, they later signed a record deal with Universal Republic Records later moving to Republic Records.

Raeen Roes Wilson was born on July 10, 1992, in Detroit, Michigan, to a military family. They are a mix of African and Native American ancestry, and a self-taught speaker of Tsalagi, the language spoken by Cherokee Tribes.[4]

However, after a pastor threatened their mother, their family left the church and moved to Brooklyn, New York when they were 16 years old. They soon began delving into the world of secular music.[5]

Around the age of seven, they were raped multiple times by two family friends. As a child, they never told anyone about the abuse, fearing retribution and worrying that they would be called a liar.

 

[buzuxi02]

Okay, so, we partly agree, at least in terms of observations of what's transpiring today?

For the record, and this goes out to anyone and no one in particular, I didn't and don't expect anyone to agree with me. It's not one of these things I will get upset over (although I will at the US Government forcing its religious views on me). But I doubt anyone will persuade me to view this any differently than I do.

Also, for the record, I only used steroids for a very short term. Not even a full year. Maybe only for 3 months I think. And I have no desire to return to using steroids. For one reason, when you get off of them you will lose a good portion of your muscle gains. I prefer to have permanent muscle mass gains. And equally if not more importantly, I only have one kidney left after being shot 3 times by a police officer, so, the risk-to-benefit ratio is not sufficiently titled towards the benefit scale at this time for me. At least in my mind. Steroids puts some stress on the kidneys (steroid pills far more than the injectable--which runs contrary to what the average person probably thinks). So, I don't wish to place that stress on my one kidney.

But if I want to use steroids that should be my right. And it should be a legal right for all those serving in the US military if the military allows male soldiers to take testosterone blockers (to decrease masculine traits) in conjunction with female hormones (to increase feminine traits). And American civilians should have the right to take steroids too. Equal protection under the law. And so-called "no mixing religious moral beliefs with laws and politics."

Historically, when a youngster deviated from the norm of his tradition the parents would say, "we didnt raise you like this". Today its 'he can choose', so there exists no right or wrong. It used to be said that "When in Rome do as the Romans". Back then though the secular and the religious, were intertwined, it made for a homogenous society. Collectively that homogenous society reflected its institutions, a natural outgrowth of that culture.

Unfortunately what your describing is the natural outcome of governments that divorces itself from their heritage and people and instead promote diversity and multiculturalism and the pursuit of happiness in opposition to commonality(yes you read that right).

What you describe is exactly the conclusion that will be reached , with secular society's promotion of cultural nestorianism. Personally I can stand government, Im a car guy and don't believe in seatbelt laws, im highly offended that NYS requires front license plates, and ticks me off that tinted windows are illegal. Its all a scam in my book to make money for the greedy public "administrators".

Im obviously concerned with drug exploitation, but your right that it makes no sense to legalize pot and pay for hormone therapy while outlawing steroid use. My argument against steroid use is more inline with all other body modifications, that is most dont know when to stop. It starts off with a nose job, then boob job, then lipo, then doing the cheeks and botox the lips till the person disfigures themselves. Same with tattoos once you get one you want another. I would be open to a small amount of anabolic steroids but I don't think most will kbow when to stop. Heck I fear human growth hormones more, you ever see those bodybuilders that develop palumboism? Thats freaky stuff and most remain in denial.

 

[SuperCloud]

Im obviously concerned with drug exploitation, but your right that it makes no sense to legalize pot and pay for hormone therapy while outlawing steroid use. My argument against steroid use is more inline with all other body modifications, that is most dont know when to stop. It starts off with a nose job, then boob job, then lipo, then doing the cheeks and botox the lips till the person disfigures themselves. Same with tattoos once you get one you want another. I would be open to a small amount of anabolic steroids but I don't think most will kbow when to stop. Heck I fear human growth hormones more, you ever see those bodybuilders that develop palumboism? Thats freaky stuff and most remain in denial.

Thanks, buzuxio, and you are right about tattoos. I started off with one--and the tattoo artist told me I'd be back again. He was right. They are addictive. So I have several on me.

The thing with steroids and bodybuilders that the non-weight lifting community does not consider, is that those guys are not only on steroids for years, decades even, but they eventually are taking huge amounts of steroids and even "stacking" (taking multiple types of steroids) steroids.

Also, as you pointed out, often bodybuilders are taking substances more dangerous than steroids like growth hormones and prescription diuretics. You are right, those growth hormones have the potential of growing your body features disproportionately. And I remember reading about some bodybuilder that was on stage, froze, had to be carried off and rushed to the ER because rigor mortis had set in, due to the diuretics he was taking that drained water from his body.

For the average skinny guy, you could put them on steroids under doctor supervision and prescription, for about 1 or 2 years, along with an appropriate diet and exercise plan, and the *negative* side-effects would be temporary and minimal. The benefits would outweigh the risks. You'd have a stronger, faster, better looking man in a shorter span of time.

And it does not require surgery like some of the things some obese people go through to reduce their weight and look better sooner rather than latter.

But I think my point is who is handing down the morals? It's the US Government. They are the one's pontificating it is morally good for a man to get female breast implants but immoral for a woman to get female breast implants. The former they say needs it to become happy, the latter they say does not need them but needs to change their perspective, accept their body, and become happy through a mental rather than physical change.

And the US Government now self declared the lords of every American's morals, s derive their moral rights and wrongs through *emotional appeals.*

A a small, thin, male Marine taking steroids is "cheating" not using "hard work" and taking "immoral substances." So says the US Government.

I've strongly considered joining the French Foreign Legion. But only for infantry life. And the French Foreign Legion does not discriminate against men with tattoos on their forearms or hands, however, they do discriminate against women and will not allow them to join their ranks. They are not looking for biology majors such as myself, but rather recruit men with troubled pasts that are willing to endure hardships, are willing to run, jump over a ditch, and strangle the life out of another human being with their bare hands if need be. And the Legion is their home land. The US Government is no longer their moral religious lords pontificating contradictions and nonsense.

But the Legion now has a zero tolerance policy barring men with metal in their body from joining. And I have metal in my body. They also prefer them younger than myself.

Anyways... if a Christian or atheist receives their moral beliefs from the pontifical moral teachings of the US Government then it is my opinion that those beliefs are their religion. Not my religion.

 

[SuperCloud]

I regard this Judge as more or less a religious Bishop of the United States. Ruling and promoting the religious morals of the US Government. And consequently the subjects of the United States who maintain faith and belief in that religion.

But the question still falls towards philosophical concepts of *freedom* and even the religious moral of "equal protection under the law" as prescribed in the main religious text of the United States: The US Constitution.

The masses of well armed military troops of the US military enforce and aid the pontifical declarations of the US Bishops in all three branches of the Federal Government. While declining to defend their fellow sailors, soldiers, airmen, and Marines--many of whom they may have served in war with--as the Bishops of the USA give them felonies for using anabolic steroids. Due to the Bishops declaring it immoral to use.

Judge orders California to pay for inmate's sex-change op

Los Angeles (AFP) - A federal judge in San Francisco has ordered California to pay for a sex-change operation for a biologically male prisoner that could cost as much as $100,000.

US District Court Judge Jon Tigar ruled Thursday that Michelle-Lael B. Norsworthy, who was born Jeffrey Bryan Norsworthy, should undergo gender-reassignment surgery at the state's expense to ensure her constitutional rights are met.

"Defendants shall take all of the actions reasonably necessary to provide Norsworthy sex-reassignment surgery as promptly as possible," the judge wrote.

Norsworthy has been in prison since 1987 and is serving 17 years to life for the 1985 shooting death of an acquaintance, according to the Orange County Register newspaper.

Personally, I'm not against the ruling of this Federal US Bishop as I'm not a person that subscribes to the religious belief of fiscal conservatism. I'm fine with the Bishops of the USA making life easier on incarcerated Federal inmates who already suffer from some restrictions of their freedoms.

I believe it a religious slap in the face for those Federal Bishops to court martial some sailor, perhaps that served on some naval ship during the war in Afghanistan, helping bomb Afghanistan for the services and per the orders of the Lords and Bishops residing on their religious thrones in all three branches of the US Government, for using steroids in conjunction with their weight lifting program. But provide female hormone therapy to a man convicted of the shooting death of another person, so, that per his freedom and increased happiness the convicted man can look for female.

A religious slap in the face. Felonies severely hamper the life of those military veterans or war veterans returning to civilian life. It's unlikely you can get into law school. Many nursing schools will not accept you and even if they do you may be denied a nursing license by whatever state you are in. Most high paying or upper-middle-income jobs bar felons. So, the Federal Bishops are attempting to sentence such sailors or soldiers to a lifetime of financial impoverishment or lower-middle-class income. Due to their pontification on morals.

However, what Christ believes about anabolic steroid use or female hormone therapy for sex change may be the same or different from the Federal Bishops of the USA.

The Bishops of the Orthodox Church might argue they have received by mandate of Christ the power and authority to decide these issues as they become paths towards approaching truth. Ultimate truth.

But the majority of Americans look to the secular Federal Bishops of the USA to hand down to them their morals carved on stone from the mountain top. When they proclaim something truth, most believe.

I do believe economic policies (e.g., fiscally liberal or fiscally conservative) and drug law policies and sex policies revolving around age consent and matrimony as well are at base religious beliefs. So is faith in intelligent alien life on far away planets or especially aliens visiting earth to abduct humans and fondle and prod them.

 

[buzuxi02]

The judicial body is indeed a religious body in the truest sense of the term. Anyone who goes to church but rarely has been inside a courtroom quickly realizes this when they enter that courtroom. The Supreme Court is the Synod of bishops right down to being appointed for life and wear their black rassas.

Judges wear religious garb, they have titles as "Honourable", everyone must stand up when he enters his temple, they have dress codes in those temples like no wearing of hats, no chewing gum, they have the power to bind and set free, judges issue fatwas, their courtrooms are set up like temples as well. To the side is the jury booth which resembles the place thr choir sits, bailiffs are their altarboys etc. They even have power to perform marriages, end marriages, etcetc.

 

[SuperCloud]

The judicial body is indeed a religious body in the truest sense of the term. Anyone who goes to church but rarely has been inside a courtroom quickly realizes this when they enter that courtroom. The Supreme Court is the Synod of bishops right down to being appointed for life and wear their black rassas.

Judges wear religious garb, they have titles as "Honourable", everyone must stand up when he enters his temple, they have dress codes in those temples like no wearing of hats, no chewing gum, they have the power to bind and set free, judges issue fatwas, their courtrooms are set up like temples as well. To the side is the jury booth which resembles the place thr choir sits, bailiffs are their altarboys etc. They even have power to perform marriages, end marriages, etcetc.

@ Blue bold. Amazing. I've said the same thing to some agnostics and atheists in the past, online. Along with the fact US Supreme Court Justices have declared themselves the only ones able to ultimately decide what the US Constitutions says and teaches and how to interpret it.

But I never considered those other points you made in your last paragraph. Interesting observations and thoughts.

Maybe Eastern Orthodox children should be taught to recognize those similarities and by doing so perhaps they'd be more inclined to defer to Eastern Orthodox Bishops than political leaders and Supreme Court Justices on moral issues the Orthodox Bishops speak on?

I don't know. But making comparisons and contrasts is a fundamental part of what academia likes to refer to as "critical thinking."

 

[fat wee robin]

I would agree with the title, and say thank God Orthodoxy is not a religion.

Army Matt, interesting that you say Orthodox is not a religion. What then
would you say it is ?

 

[ArmyMatt]

Army Matt, interesting that you say Orthodox is not a religion. What then
would you say it is ?

it is a relationship with a real Person, and not just some writings or laws He left behind. Christianity you come to know God, other faiths can teach about Him (as they see it). and Orthodoxy is Christ's non-distorted Gospel, where God literally dwells in you.

 

[SuperCloud]

and Orthodoxy is Christ's non-distorted Gospel, where God literally dwells in you.

Hmm... I like that.

 

[ArmyMatt]

Hmm... I like that.

in the Sacraments (especially Communion) Christ does dwell in us bodily, and we do become Temples of the Holy Spirit as St Paul says.

 

[fat wee robin]

it is a relationship with a real Person, and not just some writings or laws He left behind. Christianity you come to know God, other faiths can teach about Him (as they see it). and Orthodoxy is Christ's non-distorted Gospel, where God literally dwells in you.

This is the very first time I have heard what it really means to be a Christian from one of the 'grande religions' . In all my years in RCC I never heard it described quite like that . So simple and so true ,and yet they complicate for their own ends .

 

[ArmyMatt]

This is the very first time I have heard what it really means to be a Christian from one of the 'grande religions' . In all my years in RCC I never heard it described quite like that . So simple and so true ,and yet they complicate for their own ends .

yep. in other faiths there is some medium between God and man (like a Scripture, angel, avatar, etc). only in Orthodox Christianity does God come to man as He is.