Refuting OSAS in jesus name (2)

Butch5

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BrotherChris
Because you are an active participant in the Unorthodox Theology section advocating that Jesus Chris is not God. If you don't believe that, you should not be posting in the Orthodox section. Before we report you, answer the question:

Is Jesus Christ God, yes or no?

Well, if you had read my posts you'd know that I've acknowledged that Jesus is God. However, I have found that those who can't defend their doctrines report those who disagree with them. However, if anyone should do the reporting it should be me. If I remember correctly you hold the Anthanasian view of the Trinity.
 
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lori milne

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I swear lately it's almost like we are all saying the same thing and I've been really going out of my way to connect all these different understandings together.
They are like variations of how we interpret scriptures based off of being totally different people or Gods individual walk in each persons life.
I heard a saying once and it goes well here .
Jesus has four men he loves standing all together In a room. the first he went up to and he held him tight warmly and lovingly, the next man he hugged not not as long but just enough to say I love you,

The next man he laid his hand on his shoulder firmly and just as lovingly and the last he walked by looking into his eyes and nodding at him with a pleased look. This isn't in scripture but it fits. God knows what we need and when we needed it
Jesus says if we knock the door will Open.
Unless some of us have truly bad intentions.
I pray that's not the case with any of us, any of his truly innocent children.
I say innocent because to me we are being deceived by satan vs bing sinful.
 
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Zanting

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Wow! Thanks so much for sharing your testimony! A very well-said and compelling reply!

My views have developed over the years, a lot of reading, praying, thinking, and discussing with my younger brother, who is a writer and could, if he chose to, pastor a church, but he sees his calling in writing and speaking as the opportunity arises. He lives in Indonesia (we're not from there), and has spent a lot of time ministering to people of Oriental origin. Our discussions sometimes would be hard for others to follow, as we have a bit of a shorthand way of talking (as many siblings do), and we also have a very wacky sense of humor between us. My younger brother is one of only 2 people in the world who can make me laugh so hard and so long that my face and neck hurt.

As for my testimony, God nabbed me not too long after I graduated from High School. Being a musician, I attended concerts whenever I could, and at one with Glass Harp (Phil Keaggy's band), I noticed something "different" about them. I had seen them before, but something was different. Backstage after the show, my friends and I asked him how he learned to play so well on his guitar, and he smiled and looked at us and said one word: "Jesus". That name ehoed on my head like an echo chamber. A few months later, my friends and I went to see the band at their Wednesday night house gig in Kent, OH. After the show, I heard Phil say he needed a ride home, and I offered to give him the ride, which he accepted, on one condition: We had to come with him to a prayer meeting on the Kent State campus on our way.

We agreed, and when I walked into Newman Chapel, I was seeing a life-sized crucifix hanging over the altar in the Sanctuary (it was a Catholic chapel). Suddenly, what I was seeing wasn't a crucifix, I was seeing a living, moving scene in front of me that I later realized was something I never would have expected. I believe that God allowed me to see the actual Crucifixion, in a vision. I cannot even describe how it actually was, it was very bloody, and very brutal. I saw 3 crosses, and the man in the middle (Jesus), and I had this overwhelming sense of knowing that He died right there, at that time, for me. It was my sins that put Him there, it was my sins that he had taken upon Himself.

When the vision cleared, i was on my knees in the Chapel, tears running down my face, and I had this amazing sense of feeling completely clean for the first time in my life. The weight was gone! In all of this, not one word was spoken to me by anyone, no one led me in "the sinner's prayer". Like you, God moved on me, opened my eyes, opened my heart, and I received Him. I walked out of that chapel a changed man.

I wasn't looking for Christ, I wasn't feeling all that convicted of sin (I was raised in an Evangelical church, so I knew a lot of the stories and teachings of the bible, but they didn't mean anything to me). But I had an encounter with Christ that day, and my own experience has led me to a more Calvinist way of looking at things.

I'm not 100% Calvinist, there are some areas of difference I have with them from my own study of the Word. But I think they are right on at least 4 of the 5 points. For one thing, I think they're wrong about cessationism. God still does miracles today, and I have seen some, and experienced some..


As to free will, that can be a very divisive topic, but I have given you my view. I object to the idea that man's will in any way limits God, or that He limits Himself and defers to man's will. In my understanding, God is Sovereign, and man willingly does what God has ordained that he do, in the unveiling and production of His Purpose. Does God ordain what color socks I wear? No, I don't think He has to, but He certainly knew from before the foundation of the world what color socks I would wear today! To my knowledge, I don't believe that the color of my socks has any far-reaching or life-changing aspect, certainly not a key component of the Purpose and Plan of God for His Creation.

I've rambled a bit here, but an actual conversation is refreshing. I think we may have gotten off on the wrong foot briefly a month or so ago, and I'm glad to set that right!

Perhaps we got off on the wrong foot, I don't remember. Someone brought up Job. I'm feeling like Job right now. The past year and a half have been crammed with heartache, loss. hardship and sorrow. I know it is Gods will that I endure these things, so the other side of all of this must be amazing.

I had a past Christian upbringing, but I was no where near living with God in my life although I had been "saved" in my youth. It was actually only a few years ago when this happened, but it wiped my past out and quite honestly, I was given a clean slate and told...start again and truth will come.

At first I hung onto stuff, but God used my research abilities and my natural historical curiosity to go back....way back...and then work my way forward. I cannot even describe how much research I did, for days, weeks, then months always growing and learning more and more of His truth. I just had this need to know more.

I truly believe that is why that video went off. God was showing me my journey. It was one of those things where it happened so fast, that you got an overview of everything, with details present, but not overemphasized. I had the impression that I was to take His word as a whole, and not fuss about details. At least not for the present. The end was terrifying though. I would not want to be one of those who have to endure Gods wrath.

I wasn’t looking for God either...I was just going about my business. In any event, it was an overwhelmingly profound experience that I will never forget.

Anyway, as to the OSAS topic. I guess it really all comes down to the will of God. What we may or may not believe. it is His will for us. I don't want to even begin to assume I know the mind of God or His purpose for so many differing beliefs, and denominations except that I know he has one. I have thought about this a lot, and prayed about it because it was really confusing me. I will share what came back as a reply. It went kinda like this. My people are in many Christian places...including these guys...:liturgy: They all make up the body of Christ and are my Church.

So that is where it started, but there was more. Someone once told me God doesn't reveal everything all at once, and that has proven to be true for me. And God knew I was still confused. It didn't seem to explain the need for such diversity. Why couldn’t we just all come together.

Anyway you know...you get on these forms...and you often come and express your belief in the hopes that God is working through you to help others better understand, and then you're baited, and it gets heated, and your emotions get all involved and you ask yourself...How is this of service to God? ( I got a different answer for that one)

In any case, the second part of the answer came then and it went kinda like this All of my Children are different, and they will all come to me where I reach for them. That was it. You can help me interpret that one if you want. I still don't know if I fully understand, but I think it means that because we are all individuals, and think differently. We are led to where the teaching is going to best help us understand His way...yeah...kinda like me in the library, I guess. There are a lot of books in the library and some are pure fiction and yet there is also a lot of truth in the library too. And since our relationship with God is personal, He will help us with discernment wherever we go.

Then again, maybe that's not quite it. I certainly welcome insight...:)
 
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Zanting

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I swear lately it's almost like we are all saying the same thing and I've been really going out of my way to connect all these different understandings together.
They are like variations of how we interpret scriptures based off of being totally different people or Gods individual walk in each persons life.
I heard a saying once and it goes well here .
Jesus has four men he loves standing all together In a room. the first he went up to and he held him tight warmly and lovingly, the next man he hugged not not as long but just enough to say I love you,

The next man he laid his hand on his shoulder firmly and just as lovingly and the last he walked by looking into his eyes and nodding at him with a pleased look. This isn't in scripture but it fits. God knows what we need and when we needed it
Jesus says if we knock the door will Open.
Unless some of us have truly bad intentions.
I pray that's not the case with any of us, any of his truly innocent children.
I say innocent because to me we are being deceived by satan vs bing sinful.
Huh...good example, sorta says what I just posted...:)
 
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Brother Chris

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Well, if you had read my posts you'd know that I've acknowledged that Jesus is God. However, I have found that those who can't defend their doctrines report those who disagree with them. However, if anyone should do the reporting it should be me. If I remember correctly you hold the Anthanasian view of the Trinity.

LOL! I don't even know what that means.
 
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lori milne

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Brother Chris said:
LOL! I don't even know what that means.
Respect other people's views in IN JESUS name This is expected of a brother of the faith Brother Chris. Your views are valued by myself and I assume you value others as well! I will Continue that friend
 
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Butch5

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LOL! I don't even know what that means.

The site requires those who post in the Orthodox section to be Nicene Trinitarians. The Anthanasian Creed is not Nicene. You said,

God is 3 persons: God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit. So yes, Jesus is God, but we can't say God is Jesus, because Jesus is one person of the trinity and God is 3 persons.

In a thread here
 
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Butch5

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Yes, I did say that. That is Orthodox and biblical.

Is it? The forum rules say,

Congregational Forum Restrictions and orthodox Christian Only Forums
Members who do not truly share the core beliefs and teachings of a specific congregational forum may post in fellowship or ask questions, but they may not teach or debate within the forum. There are forums reserved for orthodox Christian members only. Please do not post in these forums unless you are truly a Nicene Creed, Trinitarian Christian (please see our Statement of Faith to know exactly what that is). If you wish to discuss unorthodox doctrines, you may do so in the Unorthodox Doctrinal Discussion forum
.

The Statement of faith is the Nicene Creed found here. It says "We believe in one God the Father."
 
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Marvin Knox

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The eternal security of true believers is the clear teaching of scripture.

Those who hold otherwise do not understand the basics concerning salvation.

Anyone truly weighing the scriptures in a systematic way will understand that we are saved by grace and not works.

You could carry this thread out for 3 or 4 more mandatory splits and it would not change that simple fact.
 
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lori milne

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Marvin Knox said:
The eternal security of true believers is the clear teaching of scripture. Those who hold otherwise do not understand the basics concerning salvation. Anyone truly weighing the scriptures in a systematic way will understand that we are saved by grace and not works. You could carry this thread out for 3 or 4 more mandatory splits and it would not change that simple fact.
I like that weighing the scriptures out in s systematic way so Have you look up the word grace in the bible and found the true meaning of it and how it's actually used or salvation for that matter. I watched a teacher do this he is a Messianic Jew and wow what a mind blower that was to actually see some one systematically break down the word of God :) Supper adventure in every matter of speaking
 
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Butch5

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The eternal security of true believers is the clear teaching of scripture.

Those who hold otherwise do not understand the basics concerning salvation.

Anyone truly weighing the scriptures in a systematic way will understand that we are saved by grace and not works.

You could carry this thread out for 3 or 4 more mandatory splits and it would not change that simple fact.

What is a true believer as opposed to a believer?
 
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Marvin Knox

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What is a true believer as opposed to a believer?
There have been a great many posts in this thread outlining this concept.

Some depart from among us and thereby prove that they were never of us at all for instance (as in 1 John 2:19 and such).

The scriptures are clear that the Kingdom of God in this age is made up of wheat and tares etc.

You do know, don't you, that many will call Him Lord on the day of judgement and He will disown them because they were not true believers?

I'm hoping that your question was an innocent one needing clarification and not meant to be argumentative.

I suppose that time and the next post or two will tell whether you are an honest person or if your question was asked from duplicity.

I'm hoping it is the former. :)
 
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Marvin Knox

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I like that weighing the scriptures out in s systematic way so Have you look up the word grace in the bible and found the true meaning of it and how it's actually used or salvation for that matter.
I watched a teacher do this he is a Masonic Jew and wow what a mind blower that was to actually see some one systematically break down the word of God :)

Supper adventure in every matter of speaking
The day I look to a Mason (Jew or otherwise) for enlightenment will hopefully never come.

I am a Christian and I plan to depend of the Holy Spirit for my enlightenment until the day I die.
 
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lori milne

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Marvin Knox said:
The day I look to a Mason (Jew or otherwise) for enlightenment will hopefully never come. I am a Christian and I plan to depend of the Holy Spirit for my enlightenment until the day I die.
Messionic not mason yikes ;) Well if you don't know what they believe I guess I can understand why youde say that .
 
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EmSw

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There have been a great many posts in this thread outlining this concept.

I've been wondering about this concept. Sorry Marvin, I couldn't resist replying to this post.

Some depart from among us and thereby prove that they were never of us at all for instance (as in 1 John 2:19 and such).

So, were these 'departers' believers? Or, were they never believers?

The scriptures are clear that the Kingdom of God in this age is made up of wheat and tares etc.

Tares were planted by the enemy, so they were never believers, they only resembled wheat, or believers.

You do know, don't you, that many will call Him Lord on the day of judgement and He will disown them because they were not true believers?

Actually, it wasn't because they were not true believers; he will disown them because they work iniquity.

Matthew 7:23 -
And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

They didn't do what is commanded throughout the Bible, that is, cast away all their iniquity, flee from sin, cleanse their hearts, etc. They continued in iniquity.

A believer is a true believer. There is no difference.

If there is a difference, please tell me what separates a true believer from a believer? I would like someone to answer this without mentioning doing something. Thank you.
 
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lori milne

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Marvin Knox said:
The day I look to a Mason (Jew or otherwise) for enlightenment will hopefully never come. I am a Christian and I plan to depend of the Holy Spirit for my enlightenment until the day I die.
They are Christians as well just Jewish Christians lol
 
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