Reformed Theology?

[TCat]

Please could someone tell me what "Reformed Theology" means? I am currently church shopping and all I know is Lutheran theology. I recently attended a new church near my home and the Pastor referred to his church as having reformed theology. I haven't a clue what that means but it seems something like predestination.
Can someone, in lay terms, explain what that means and how Lutherans understand such.
Thx T-Cat

 

[DaRev]

There are a number of differences between Lutheran (Biblical) theology and Reformed.

The issue of predestination tends to vary from denomination to denomination, but it typically is the notion of "once saved, always saved" which contradicts the Biblical teaching that we can indeed lose our salvation by our own rejection. There are also those who hold to double-predestination, meaning that before the beginning of the universe, God has already determined who is going to heaven and who is going to hell, which also contradicts Scripture and basically renders the crucifixion of Jesus as meaningless.

The Reformed also hold a symbolic view of the Sacraments. They teach that the Lord's Supper is not the real body and blood of Christ as Jesus says it is, and it does not convey the forgiveness of sins as Jesus says it does. There are also some who teach that Baptism does not forgive sins and is merely an outward act of one's faith, which also contradicts the Biblical teaching of Baptism.

 

[jonathan1971]

There are a number of differences between Lutheran (Biblical) theology and Reformed.

TCat,

Do you know what denomination the church belongs two? Also, Rev hit pretty much the main differences between the two except for church government, but that depends on the denomination.

 

[TCat]

Thank you for the responses, I think I need to talk to the pastor, the predestination thing really contradicts the Word and I don't think I could go to a church with that view without understanding where it comes from.

 

[filosofer]

If you don’t mind, is there a reason you are looking outside the Lutheran Church?

 

[TCat]

filosofer, it's a long story and it's best left in the past. Suffice it to say that my leaving my church has NOTHING to do with the theology of the church but rather with the leadership of the particular church I have been attending.

There is one other LCMS that I might attend but in truth it is far from my home, and pretty small. The congregation is friendly and the pastor seems like a fine teacher and leader. I do plan to attend the ladies retreat with them in May as I have helped lead retreats for their church in the past.

I just want a church that is close enough to home for my family to get involved in, be an active part of and grow in our faith. I am so tired of looking for a church, praying about a church and trying to weed out wonky doctrine I am about to give up.

Tried staying home several Sunday mornings and just avoiding church all together but found myself filled with longing to be a part of the body. This whole thing is difficult.

 

[Studeclunker]

May our gracious and loving Lord help and support your search for fellowship and the truth.

 

[bach90]

Another key difference is that Lutherans (in accordance with the Bible see 1 Tim 2:4) believe Jesus Christ died for all men and for all sin. Reformed Theology teaches a limited atonement, that is that Christ did not die for all, but only for the elect.

 

[filosofer]

We have to exercise caution though, because there is so much divergent theology lumped into the “Reformed” camp. Some are Calvinists, some are Arminian, and some are in between. So those who are Reformed but of the Arminian position would accept 1 Tim 2:3-4. Obviously, though, they all would reject Lutheran teaching on justification, sacraments, etc.

 

[JM]

Maybe ask this in the Reformed forum...?

Check out the Reformed confessions including the 1689 Baptist Confession.

 

[Tangible]

Rev Fisk did a great takedown of Reformed theology recently. It was discussed in this thread:http://www.christianforums.com/t7497997/

 

[JM]

It's not as hip as the above video...

YouTube - Lutheran and Calvinist Salvation Differences

 

[Tangible]

Lutheran & Calvinist Christologiesfrom What Sasse Said by Pr Mark Henderson

...the deepest divergence between Lutheranism and Calvinism may be best understood as a reawakening in the Reformation of the old christological schools. So the controversy between the Lutherans and the Reformed about the Lord's Supper became a struggle to understand Chalcedon. The question of the presence of the true body and blood of Christ in the Sacrament of the Altar leads to the question whether the human nature of Christ is so united with His divine nature that it partakes of its attributes.

Hermann Sasse, from The 1.500th Anniversary of Chalcedon, Letters to Lutheran pastors No. 21 (September, 1951); trans. Norman Nagel in We Confess Jesus Christ (CPH 1984:64).

 

[jonathan1971]

Also, the BoC online has a copy of 1549 Consensus Tigurinus which is just another example of how divergent the two theologies are.

 

[JM]

I enjoyed the Fisk videos, I really did...they were very cool and at times convincing but he failed to deal with the text he quoted in support of his views. I understand you cannot always be exhaustive when making a quick vid for YouTube but I just want to stress the need to dig deeper into the word.

One example he quotes a few times in a few different videos in support of opportunity redemption:

Matt. 23:37 "O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and ye would not!"

Who is ‘Jerusalem’ in the context of this passage?

Starting at the beginning of Matthew 23 we find our Lord speaking of the leaders of Jerusalem, the Scribes and Pharisee, those who killed the prophets:

v. 2 “...Pharisees sit in Moses sit...”
v. 6 “...chief seats in the synagogues...”
v. 7 “...Rabbi, Rabbi...”
v. 13 “But woe unto you, Scribes and Pharisees...”
v. 14 “Woe unto you, Scribes and Pharisees...”
v. 15 “Woe unto you, Scribes and Pharisees...”
v. 16 “Woe unto you, ye blind guides...”
etc, etc. I think you get the picture.

Another look at Matt. 23:37, “O Jerusalem, Jerusalem...”

Jesus isn’t calling the leaders to gather He is calling the ‘children’ or believers. ‘Jerusalem’ or the leaders and rulers of Jerusalem are not being called to gather at all. The leaders wouldn’t allow the faithful of God to come together, God wasn’t seeking to bring together those who ‘killest the prophets’ but the faithful.

The unwillingness comes from not allowing the faithful to come gather and is not a rejection of a Gospel.

Those Christ would gather are not represented as being unwilling, but not allowed by the ruling class in Jerusalem.

I hope this was of use.

j

 

[Tangible]

You're welcome to bring that to Rev Fisk's attention if you want, at www.worldvieweverlasting.com

If he doesn't address your questions or observations on his Friday episode, he or another pastor will usually address them in writing on the "WE Got Answers" tab.

FWIW, I think Jesus is referring to the whole nation of Isreal, rulers and hoi polloi alike, when he speaks of the children of Jerusalem - especially those who cheered him in his triumphal entry one day, yet called just as loudly for his crucifixion shortly thereafter. One of our resident pastors please correct me if I'm wrong.

 

[JM]

Thanks folks for letting me post.

 

[RedTulipMom]

I have been a part of a a few different denominations over the years. In my opinion going from Lutheran to Reformed would be quite a stretch. If you can't get to another Lutheran Church you might want to think about a Methodist Church, it would be much more familiar and comfortable for you.

 

[Tangible]

Or maybe an Anglican church, or even a more conservative Episcopalian one.

 

[DaRev]

Avoid the Methodists.