Referring Faith to an Expert??

[Jane_Doe]

Well, I think, for starters, the Church has to cease its compromises with the World. And that means individually believers must reject the same compromises in their own lives.

2 Corinthians 6:17-18
17 Therefore "Come out from among them And be separate, says the Lord. Do not touch what is unclean, And I will receive you."
18 "I will be a Father to you, And you shall be My sons and daughters, Says the Lord Almighty."

Ephesians 5:8-12
8 For you were once darkness, but now you are light in the Lord. Walk as children of light
9 (for the fruit of the Spirit is in all goodness, righteousness, and truth),
10 finding out what is acceptable to the Lord.
11 And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather expose them.
12 For it is shameful even to speak of those things which are done by them in secret.

Believers must begin to be highly critical of the World and very careful how much of an opportunity they give it to preach its values, philosophies and mores at them. That inevitably means turning off the t.v. It is the single most powerful tool through which the World imposes itself upon Christian believers. Books, movies, magazines, social events, hobbies - our choices concerning these things, too, need to be made to conform to the life of holiness to which God has called all of His children.

Christians also desperately need to be discipled into the deeper truths of their faith. Not just a six-week course of spiritual basics given to a new convert, but an in-depth journey (possibly years in length) into knowing and walking with God that a new believer is led into by a mature veteran of the faith.

Matthew 28:19-20
19 Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,
20 teaching them to observe all things that I have commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, even to the end of the age." Amen.

2 Timothy 2:1-2
1 You therefore, my son, be strong in the grace that is in Christ Jesus.
2 And the things that you have heard from me among many witnesses, commit these to faithful men who will be able to teach others also.

Followers of Christ also need to return the Word of God to its former highly-esteemed position in the Church.

Matthew 4:4
4 But He answered and said, "It is written, 'Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceeds from the mouth of God.' "

2 Timothy 3:16-17
16 All Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness,
17 that the man of God may be complete, thoroughly equipped for every good work.

Jeremiah 15:16
16 Your words were found, and I ate them, And Your word was to me the joy and rejoicing of my heart; For I am called by Your name, O Lord God of hosts.

Selah.

Thanks for your response. Besides turning off the TV, do you have any more steps you'd recommend?

 

[com7fy8]

Hi, Jane You said >

But lately when I ask someone to tell me about their face... I keep getting the answer "I don't know enough, you should go ask [someone 'expert']."

Your misspelling of "faith" as "face" can help answer your question. For some people their faith is their "face" > what they think they are supposed to show. And they don't know much about it.

This can happen more in a copy-cat style group, where ones just do as the others, but do not know why.

But there are groups who tell everyone to be ready to tell people about Jesus and the gospel.

Another thing > Paul says we need "faith working through love" (in Galatians 5:6). So, for us who go by this which is in the Bible, our faith is not only what we believe. And faith includes trusting and depending on God. So, this is not just an explanation thing.

I do not understand. Is your faith somehow not go enough? Why do people feel compelled to say "ask the expert"?

Another thing that could happen . . . if you have become known as a Mormon missionary asking questions . . . ones might feel they can't know enough about your beliefs so they can answer in a way relevant to you. In case you have been asking questions about their answers, and probing them with more and more questions, they could feel you need to talk with someone who knows more about your religion.

But each person is different; so you would need to let each one tell you why Ones might feel you are trying to get them talking so you can lead them to the Mormon subject; and they "might" not be interested in this. "But each person is different" > I can't speak for everyone.

 

[Jane_Doe]

Good to hear from you com7fy8.

Another thing that could happen . . . if you have become known as a Mormon missionary asking questions . . . ones might feel they can't know enough about your beliefs so they can answer in a way relevant to you. In case you have been asking questions about their answers, and probing them with more and more questions, they could feel you need to talk with someone who knows more about your religion.

But each person is different; so you would need to let each one tell you why Ones might feel you are trying to get them talking so you can lead them to the Mormon subject; and they "might" not be interested in this. "But each person is different" > I can't speak for everyone.

This is an angle I had not considered.

When I visit a church, I don't go around literally wearing a Mormon missionary name tag, for starters because I never was a formal Mormon missionary, and because I'm not going there to convert anyone but rather to hear their thoughts. Usually people don't ask about my faith, and when they do the response seldom is dramatic (ignoring the occasional person who feels the need to 'inform' me of what I believe).

Do you feel the need to tailor telling a person about your faith, based upon what you think the doctrines of their church are? That seems... odd.

 

[com7fy8]

Do you feel the need to tailor telling a person about your faith, based upon what you think the doctrines of their church are? That seems... odd.

Well, I might ask what a person already understands, so then I can talk at that person's level.

I wouldn't just go by what a church or denomination says, because I have found how people in a group do not necessarily all believe the same, plus ones often enough do not even know what their group officially teaches.

I used to have "fun" with Jehovah's Witnesses who I might meet. Ones of them would say, oh we all believe the same thing. But I know each human is unique, the only one created by God who is our Creator and not a copier So, I might ask someone to tell me his or her personal experience, or what on that day the person has been discovering, or what the person feels he or she has discovered about Jesus, personally. And ones have opened up.

Also, I have visited a number of Jehovah's Witness meetings, and I know how they prepare for their Saturday visiting. So, if someone comes and says the pre-planned intro, I say I know you were told to say that at your Wednesday or Thursday meeting; I'll be glad to talk about this if you want, but I would welcome you to tell me your own personal experience of God through the Bible, if you please to do this; and ones have talked with me about their personal experience

But if someone asks me what religion I am, I might be general, saying something like I'm supposed to be some kind of born-again person, but I know that ones claiming to be "born-again" are not all the same. I'm a Jesus person, basic Bible; and I have read the Bible; so I know I need a major amount of correction by God. And no one usually asks me anything, after that.

 

[Jane_Doe]

But if someone asks me what religion I am, I might be general, saying something like I'm supposed to be some kind of born-again person, but I know that ones claiming to be "born-again" are not all the same. I'm a Jesus person, basic Bible; and I have read the Bible; so I know I need a major amount of correction by God. And no one usually asks me anything, after that.

I totally agree with you.

 

[com7fy8]

I totally agree with you.
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After reading 1 Corinthians 6:17 and Galatians 5:6, with Hebrews 11:1, "of course", I now consider faith to be our spiritual connection with God > our actual spiritual union with God is our "evidence" that there is God, and our connection with Him in His love is our "substance of things hoped for" > with this, see also Romans 5:5. In our connection of "faith working through love" (Galatians 5:6), we have how His love effects our nature > 1 John 4:17.

And our calling as Christians is how He has us loving > Ephesians 4:1-3, and we are called to how He rules us in our hearts with His own peace (Colossians 3:15).

So, faith is not first about what we believe. So, getting only or mainly involved with people's beliefs can be a decoy thing to keep our attention away from submitting to how our Father corrects us (Hebrews 12:6-11) so we love the way He wants and obey how He rules us in His own peace.

So, when I talk with people, I am interested in how much they believe and experience that God is being this personal with them . . . in their "hearts" (Colossians 3:15) ruling them with His own peace, and having them love like we are called to love >

"with all lowliness and gentleness, with longsuffering, bearing with one another in love," (Ephesians 4:2)

 

[aiki]

Thanks for your response. Besides turning off the TV, do you have any more steps you'd recommend?

Well, the root of the Church's present problem of spiritual superficiality lies in no small part with the kind of Gospel that is preached. There has been a lot of "Jesus loves you!" "God offers you the gift of an eternity with Him!" "All you have to do to be saved is pray the Sinner's Prayer!" As far as these things go, they are true. One cannot earn salvation, to be sure, but genuine salvation is always evidenced in a changed life (Ja. 2). Yes, one must "confess with their mouth and believe in their heart that Jesus Christ is Saviour and Lord," but no where in Scripture is there a particular prescribed prayer of salvation, no Sinner's Prayer ritual one can rattle off in order to be saved. Salvation is a Person, Jesus Christ (1Jn. 5:11, 12), not a thing, not a sort of divine certification against the fires of hell. We are justified by God, we are saved, solely by faith in Jesus as our Saviour and submission to him as Lord. Yes, salvation is a gift, but it is also an exchange. Yes, Jesus loves sinners but he will also judge them, and reject them, and send them to Hell. And so on. The Gospel is a much more complex set of inter-related truths than it is typically made out to be. And when people are saved with a superficial grasp of the Gospel, they go on to have a correspondingly superficial experience of life in Christ. Correcting people's understanding of the Gospel is, then, as far as I'm concerned, a vital part of correcting the general degeneration presently afflicting the Church. This is what I do when I disciple believers. The first several weeks of discipleship go over the full scope of the Gospel, covering in detail the matters of justification by faith, identification with Christ, sanctification, appropriation, the crucified life, etc. Every person who claims to be a born-again disciple of Christ, needs to be very clear and sure of the entire Gospel, not the easy-believism and half-truths often preached as the Gospel today.

Selah.