re: Politics

[jeolmstead]

Here's something to chew on for awhile.

"A primary agent for the propagandizing of technique in modern society is the involvement of people in participatory politics, especially in democratic societies where people are led to believe that it is "governance by the people for the people." Politics gives the individuals within society the illusion of freedom by having a sense of effectual participation. The "political illusion" of popular participation, popular control by the people, and collective problem-solving of social problems, falsely fulfills the need that individuals have for meaning, importance, effectiveness and security, leading them to surrender themselves all the more to the politicized state and the technicized system.
When all values are cast in political form, and all hopes are directed toward political solutions, believed to be on the verge of realization, politics becomes the "supreme religion of this age," propagating its "myth of the solution" for all social problems, despite the inability of politics to deal with good and evil, personal character, or the meaning and quality of life." James A Fowler

John O.

 

[Faulty]

He may or may not be on the right track in the second paragraph, but I've never been one to entertain pessimism and that's all the first paragraph is, opinionated pessimism.

 

[jeolmstead]

It strikes me that in spite of the fact that many attempted to cast Jesus in the role of political leader He always resisted them.

Even those in His inner circle were perplexed that He would not use his authority to ascend to an earthly throne.

It appears to me that we seem to have the same problem today.

For thirty years we have sought to gain control of the political arena in order to establish the kingdom of God. While we have managed to have “our guy” at the top a pretty good percentage of the time the kingdom has been steadily decreasing (or so it seems).

The kingdom however does not start with the top and trickle down to the masses. It advances one heart at a time with those hearts usually found beating in the poorest and meekest of us.

The Jews understood something about what Jesus said about the kingdom that we miss. The mustard plant found in the Middle East grows like a weed. It takes over. Once it gets established it can never be stopped and the birds that nest in it are not the mighty eagles. They are the common sparrows.

John O.

 

[Faulty]

Its an astute observation that the Church seems to be in a decline, but it appears to me that the decline is only in areas like the US. If anything, the increase in our neck of the woods appears to be in Hindi and occultic doctrines and practices, while other areas, such as the middle and far east seems to be flurishing, although primarily underground.

It may very well be that we've lost our focus, and looked to instill our leaders at the top, perhaps in an effort to impose our little version of 'Heaven on Earth', and ended up losing the focus the first church had. Our kingdom is not of this world and we may have forgotten that reality.

 

[Faulty]

I read this tonight and it reminded me of your post.

http://ag.org/top/Downloads/Post_Election_Statement.pdf

 

[nephilimiyr]

When all values are cast in political form, and all hopes are directed toward political solutions, believed to be on the verge of realization, politics becomes the "supreme religion of this age," propagating its "myth of the solution" for all social problems, despite the inability of politics to deal with good and evil, personal character, or the meaning and quality of life." James A Fowler

John O.

This put into words very well why I never wanted to be a democrate or especially a liberal. Too much hope is placed into the system rather than our God and ourselves as individuals. Yes we have to work as a community, but government too often tells us that one size must fit all, and that simply isn't true and will never work. Well, unless if your a robot?

Government can certainly help but when it's the main venue and outlet of purpose, it turns into a crutch, and what we have seen in Communist countries, something more sinister!

 

[nephilimiyr]

It strikes me that in spite of the fact that many attempted to cast Jesus in the role of political leader He always resisted them.

Even those in His inner circle were perplexed that He would not use his authority to ascend to an earthly throne.

It appears to me that we seem to have the same problem today.

For thirty years we have sought to gain control of the political arena in order to establish the kingdom of God. While we have managed to have “our guy” at the top a pretty good percentage of the time the kingdom has been steadily decreasing (or so it seems).

The kingdom however does not start with the top and trickle down to the masses. It advances one heart at a time with those hearts usually found beating in the poorest and meekest of us.

The Jews understood something about what Jesus said about the kingdom that we miss. The mustard plant found in the Middle East grows like a weed. It takes over. Once it gets established it can never be stopped and the birds that nest in it are not the mighty eagles. They are the common sparrows.

John O.

I don't believe though that having "our guy" at the top is a bad thing or the wrong way to go. Where I have seen the problem is that we ignor other areas of societies mountain tops.

You ever hear of Lance Walhnau? He said he got a vision from God where God showed him how He was going to bring about a stronger presence of the kingdom here on earth. He said he saw mountains and on each mountain he saw thrones. To make a long story short, Lance explained it by saying to hold up your hand and spread your fingers. Consider each finger tip a mountain top that represents an area of society. One finger would be government, the next one education, the next one entertainment, and so on and so on. God told him that He was going to place christians in positions so that they will become the movers and shakers of each of these areas of society.

Now if any of you know of Lance Walhnau and believe he is a false prophet or teacher, please don't make that the subject and ignor the logic here. Whether he is truthful or not, he does speak logic. If we are going to effect the world for the kingdom of God in these last days, we are going to need christians being the movers and shakers in these areas of society because for way too long we haven't been. In fact we have neglected these areas and believeing that as long as we have a christian president, God will make His will come to pass, that simply isn't true folks.

 

[Alpine]

I read this tonight and it reminded me of your post.

http://ag.org/top/Downloads/Post_Election_Statement.pdf

Good stuff!

 

[JimB]

Here's something to chew on for awhile.

"A primary agent for the propagandizing of technique in modern society is the involvement of people in participatory politics, especially in democratic societies where people are led to believe that it is "governance by the people for the people." Politics gives the individuals within society the illusion of freedom by having a sense of effectual participation. The "political illusion" of popular participation, popular control by the people, and collective problem-solving of social problems, falsely fulfills the need that individuals have for meaning, importance, effectiveness and security, leading them to surrender themselves all the more to the politicized state and the technicized system.
When all values are cast in political form, and all hopes are directed toward political solutions, believed to be on the verge of realization, politics becomes the "supreme religion of this age," propagating its "myth of the solution" for all social problems, despite the inability of politics to deal with good and evil, personal character, or the meaning and quality of life." James A Fowler

John O.

Thanks for posting this, John. I agree with Mr. Fowler.

We may not be as politically powerful as we think we are. Maybe if believers did what we are supposed to do, just be the light and salt of the earth and leave government to God, society would be the better for it. We glibly say God is in control and then seek to wrest control from Him because, in a democratic country, we are convinced that the only way God can change our nation is with the ballot.

Thanks for posting this.

BTW, check out the “Ironic, isn’t it” thread in the debate forum.

~Jim

“We were made not primarily that we may love God but that God may love us, that we may become objects in which the divine love may rest ‘well pleased.’” ~C.S. Lewis, The Problem of Pain​

 

[nephilimiyr]

Thanks for posting this, John. I agree with Mr. Fowler.

We may not be as politically powerful as we think we are. Maybe if believers did what we are supposed to do, just be the light and salt of the earth and leave government to God, society would be the better for it. We glibly say God is in control and then seek to wrest control from Him because, in a democratic country, we are convinced that the only way God can change our nation is with the ballot.

Thanks for posting this.

BTW, check out the “Ironic, isn’t it” thread in the debate forum.

~Jim

“We were made not primarily that we may love God but that God may love us, that we may become objects in which the divine love may rest ‘well pleased.’” ~C.S. Lewis, The Problem of Pain​

I hope that when you say "leave government to God" that that doesn't mean you suggest that we are to stay out of politics and not encourage those talented enough among us to run for office? I also don't see too many of us wrestling control from God because some of us have decided to get involved in the process. Far right or far left loons notwithstanding, we'll always have them.

 

[JimB]

I hope that when you say "leave government to God" that that doesn't mean you suggest that we are to stay out of politics and not encourage those talented enough among us to run for office? I also don't see too many of us wrestling control from God because some of us have decided to get involved in the process. Far right or far left loons notwithstanding, we'll always have them.

This is a matter of choice/conscience for a Christian. But if voting means choosing the lesser of two evils I do not see how a Christian can vote.

And I have seen Christians go into politics and somehow lose their soul in the process. One of my friends is a former gospel singer turned politician who has been our state representative for more than a decade. He is a good man, but I never hear him talk much about Jesus anymore, it is now always something to do with politics (of the right-wing sort). I am not sure where he is in his relationship to Christ these days—I hope he is just as much of a kingdom man as when he traveled with his quartet—but I just don’t hear it in his emails anymore.

I still say, if some Christians were as passionate about the kingdom as they are about their politics this world would have been won to Christ centuries ago.

~Jim

“We were made not primarily that we may love God but that God may love us, that we may become objects in which the divine love may rest ‘well pleased.’” ​

~C.S. Lewis, The Problem of Pain​

​

 

[nephilimiyr]

This is a matter of choice/conscience for a Christian. But if voting means choosing the lesser of two evils I do not see how a Christian can vote.

And I have seen Christians go into politics and somehow lose their soul in the process. One of my friends is a former gospel singer turned politician who has been our state representative for more than a decade. He is a good man, but I never hear him talk much about Jesus anymore, it is now always something to do with politics (of the right-wing sort). I am not sure where he is in his relationship to Christ these days—I hope he is just as much of a kingdom man as when he traveled with his quartet—but I just don’t hear it in his emails anymore.

Thanks for the clarification.

I still say, if some Christians were as passionate about the kingdom as they are about their politics this world would have been won to Christ centuries ago.

And you can keep saying that as I also believe that is true, in other posts you just seemed to implicate everyone with that. my bad

 

[ANM29]

Thanks for posting this, John. I agree with Mr. Fowler.

We may not be as politically powerful as we think we are. Maybe if believers did what we are supposed to do, just be the light and salt of the earth and leave government to God, society would be the better for it. We glibly say God is in control and then seek to wrest control from Him because, in a democratic country, we are convinced that the only way God can change our nation is with the ballot.

Thanks for posting this.

BTW, check out the “Ironic, isn’t it” thread in the debate forum.

~Jim

“We were made not primarily that we may love God but that God may love us, that we may become objects in which the divine love may rest ‘well pleased.’” ~C.S. Lewis, The Problem of Pain​