Rapture in Scripture

[Aaron Rich]

Hi all!

Google doesn't seem to want to give me a list of proof-texts that are used to show the rapture in Scripture. I'm researching it trying to understand the theology behind it more.

Can you all share the proof verses you know about within Scripture? Surely the entire theology has not been formed from 1 Thes 4...there obviously should be additional Biblical witnesses, right?

Thanks for your help!

 

[HTacianas]

Hi all!

Google doesn't seem to want to give me a list of proof-texts that are used to show the rapture in Scripture. I'm researching it trying to understand the theology behind it more.

Can you all share the proof verses you know about within Scripture? Surely the entire theology has not been formed from 1 Thes 4...there obviously should be additional Biblical witnesses, right?

Thanks for your help!

You're not going to find it because it doesn't exist. What is known among some protestant groups as the "rapture" is an idea that has only been around since the middle of the 19th century. It has never been a part of Christianity.

 

[ByTheSpirit]

The rapture is based mainly off of the text you describe as well as passages from Revelation, Matthew 24, 1 Corinthians 15, 2 These 2. I wouldn't say the idea isn't biblical, what I would say is the timing of it can be.

Jesus said there is a resurrection of life and a resurrection of death. John 5:28-29, Revelation 20. Not one resurrection of life, a resurrection of death and a secret snatching away (which also includes a resurrection).

In 2 Thessalonians 2 Paul literally says that we will not be gathered to Jesus until the great rebellion happens and the Anti-Christ is revealed.

So while I don't think the rapture is in itself unbiblical, those saying it'll happen pretribulation or any other time other than at Jesus' second coming are wrong. His coming is at the end of the Tribulation.

 

[sandman]

I would be happy to share..............
On my way out the door right now ...give me till about 6 or 7 (your time)

 

[Hank77]

Hi all!

Google doesn't seem to want to give me a list of proof-texts that are used to show the rapture in Scripture. I'm researching it trying to understand the theology behind it more.

Can you all share the proof verses you know about within Scripture? Surely the entire theology has not been formed from 1 Thes 4...there obviously should be additional Biblical witnesses, right?

Thanks for your help!

Looking for 'proof texts' is a poor way to study theology. There are many, many sources online.
Many prominent pastors and teachers have explanatory videos on YouTube that will give you the scriptures that you are asking for as well as their interpretation of those scriptures.
https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=the+rapture+of+the+church

 

[Rachel20]

...there obviously should be additional Biblical witnesses, right?

It depends if Paul was revealing the "mystery" of the rapture at that time, or only some aspect of it (like we shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed), in which case there should be prior Biblical witnesses - agreed.

I personally see it in Isaiah

Thy dead men shall live, together with my dead body shall they arise. Awake and sing, ye that dwell in dust: for thy dew is as the dew of herbs, and the earth shall cast out the dead.
Come, my people, enter thou into thy chambers, and shut thy doors about thee: hide thyself as it were for a little moment, until the indignation be overpast.
For, behold, the LORD cometh out of his place to punish the inhabitants of the earth for their iniquity: the earth also shall disclose her blood, and shall no more cover her slain.

And in the Book of Enoch (Chap L), which Jude quoted from:

1. And in those days a change shall take place for the holy and elect,
And the light of days shall abide upon them,
And glory and honour shall turn to the holy,
2. On the day of affliction on which evil shall have been treasured up against the sinners.
And the righteous shall be victorious in the name of the Lord of Spirits:
And He will cause the others to witness (this)
That they may repent
And forgo the works of their hands.
3. They shall have no honour through the name of the Lord of Spirits,
Yet through His name shall they be saved,
And the Lord of Spirits will have compassion on them,
For His compassion is great.
4. And He is righteous also in His judgement,
And in the presence of His glory unrighteousness also shall not maintain itself:
At His judgement the unrepentant shall perish before Him.
5. And from henceforth I will have no mercy on them, saith the Lord of Spirits.

 

[Blade]

You're not going to find it because it doesn't exist. What is known among some protestant groups as the "rapture" is an idea that has only been around since the middle of the 19th century. It has never been a part of Christianity.

Well I searched many many years ago and found a hymn writer and preacher wrote about Jesus coming before the great tribulation. It talked about the man and showed the scrolls what he wrote.. everyone could read it. But what got me and I didn't like at the time was they were written 300-400ad. For me I was sad thinking thats to late lol. Then Grant Jeffrey (gone home) who had a show on TBN I think he showed that Hymn writer showed the scrolls the showed every more before 300ad. Oh then other preachers today know about it. What about 1600? yeah you find for some reason .. I don't know why but some don't search. If you ever read some of my posts I have said this is something you can't just google. You really have to dig.

So some that talked about preached about means what? Yeah thats it. Does not prove pre trib but like you some believed it.

 

[Aaron Rich]

Looking for 'proof texts' is a poor way to study theology. There are many, many sources online.
Many prominent pastors and teachers have explanatory videos on YouTube that will give you the scriptures that you are asking for as well as their interpretation of those scriptures.
https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=the+rapture+of+the+church

This is a response I never expected to read/hear from a student of a Scripture. I will flatly disagree with you.

Looking for proof in Scripture, the only written source of truth, is literally the foundation of the faith. To say it is a poor study of theology is like saying a microscope is a poor way to study microscopic things. Huh?

Yes, the Spirit may speak truth to someone, but the way to know if it’s the Holy Spirit is to see if the inspiration received contradicts Scripture. Any of it.

Same goes with YouTube teachers. I am sure I can find any number of “teachers” telling me about the rapture. I don’t care about that. I don’t want their commentary and bias telling me how to understand Scripture. Now *that* is a poor way to study theology. I want to know the references they are using to substantiate their doctrinal stance so I can go and study them myself sans doctrinal lean and informing me how to think. Once I read all the textual references used to prove the doctrine and I make my own assessment only then will I consult other insights.

 

[Aaron Rich]

It depends if Paul was revealing the "mystery" of the rapture at that time, or only some aspect of it (like we shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed), in which case there should be prior Biblical witnesses - agreed.

I personally see it in Isaiah

Thy dead men shall live, together with my dead body shall they arise. Awake and sing, ye that dwell in dust: for thy dew is as the dew of herbs, and the earth shall cast out the dead.
Come, my people, enter thou into thy chambers, and shut thy doors about thee: hide thyself as it were for a little moment, until the indignation be overpast.
For, behold, the LORD cometh out of his place to punish the inhabitants of the earth for their iniquity: the earth also shall disclose her blood, and shall no more cover her slain.

And in the Book of Enoch (Chap L), which Jude quoted from:

1. And in those days a change shall take place for the holy and elect,
And the light of days shall abide upon them,
And glory and honour shall turn to the holy,
2. On the day of affliction on which evil shall have been treasured up against the sinners.
And the righteous shall be victorious in the name of the Lord of Spirits:
And He will cause the others to witness (this)
That they may repent
And forgo the works of their hands.
3. They shall have no honour through the name of the Lord of Spirits,
Yet through His name shall they be saved,
And the Lord of Spirits will have compassion on them,
For His compassion is great.
4. And He is righteous also in His judgement,
And in the presence of His glory unrighteousness also shall not maintain itself:
At His judgement the unrepentant shall perish before Him.
5. And from henceforth I will have no mercy on them, saith the Lord of Spirits.

I truly never expected someone to drop and Enoch quote! Fascinating. Thank you!

 

[sandman]

There are quite a few scripture reference to the gathering together “rapture”. I can’t go through everything in a single post, but I will lay out some…. and if you are interested, I will submit more.


The first thing you must recognize or realize is that there are NO scriptural prophecy in the OT or the gospels regarding the rapture….which understandably throws off many people. All The scripture in the OT and the gospels give reference to events that are to take place at some point…. in the tribulation period.

There are things (prophecy) that seem similar….but similar is not identical….and there are many differences. Case in point …how many times have you read through the gospels of the triumphant entry that Jesus Christ made into Jerusalem. We have been taught and we have read that there was just that one entry …but there were two entries (← link) according to the Bible…. there are many other things I could point out around the crucifixion that are inaccurate according to tradition ....all because of similarities ….but that is for another time.

So why???? Are there no prophecies concerning the rapture…..very simply, because it wasn’t known.

The mystery and all that it encompasses was kept hidden in God and not fully revealed until Paul received it by revelation (Eph 3:3)….In addition to Jews and Gentiles being fellow citizens and of the household of God…..The one body of Christ (the one new man)….Salvation by grace in an administration of grace….The indwelling of holy spirit (incorruptible seed) whereby we can operate 9 manifestations of the spirit….and much more..... in addition to all that …..was hid this “gathering together unto him”

All the prophecy from the OT and gospels which Revelation lays out…. will still come to pass …Once this Grace administration → that God slipped in…. is completed ….and it will terminate with the gathering together unto him…. the day of redemption….. our glorious hope…..the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ …or the rapture ….whatever you want to call it…..BUT.. do not call it “The day of the Lord” or “The Lords day” those two titles in the Bible are reserved for the tribulation period……Technically the tribulation period begins right after the rapture.

For this post I am going to just include some sections of the Word from both 1&2 Thessalonians with brief comment to point out what is written.

1 Thes 4 13-18

1Th 4:13 But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.

We are not to be ignorant (conversely, we want you to be informed) brethren. Brethren is addressing those at Thessalonica and all the believers in Christ since the letters were encyclical.

1Th 4:14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.

This is addressing the living believers concerning the ones who have died (sleep in Jesus). It is not referencing anybody else except those who have fallen asleep in Jesus. …..which is in this grace administration

1Th 4:15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent (precede) them which are asleep.

1Th 4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:

An order, command, a stimulating cry….very different from a thief in the night

The ones who are raised are the dead in Christ those born again ….no one else. This is not called a resurrection because not all will be dead as 4:17 states.

1Th 4:17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

Whoever is alive and remains are caught up together in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so shall we ever be with the Lord. We are the body of Christ….. Christ is the head. Currently we are seated in the heavenlies IN Christ but when the rapture takes place we will physically with our spiritual bodies be with Him wherever Christ is.

1Th 4:18 Wherefore comfort one another with these words.


1 Thes 5:1-11

Keep an eye on the pronouns (I have bolded them for the distinction) It will delineate between the two groups of people children of the light and children of the day with those “they” and “them” who are of the night and of darkness.



5:1 begins with a contrasting conjunction which distinguishes itself from the previous event when the church of God is caught up together to meet the Lord in the air…( in the originals …there were no chapter divisions)


1Th 5:1 But of the times and the seasons, brethren, ye have no need that I write unto you.

1Th 5:2 For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord (tribulation) so cometh as a thief in the night.

1Th 5:3 For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape.

1Th 5:4 But (contrasting conjunction) ye, brethren, are not in darkness, that that day should overtake you as a thief.

1Th 5:5 Ye are all the children of light, and the children of the day: we are not of the night, nor of darkness.

1Th 5:6 Therefore let us not sleep, as do others; but let us watch (be vigilant) and be sober.

1Th 5:7 For they that sleep sleep in the night; and they that be drunken are drunken in the night.

1Th 5:8 But let us, who are of the day, be sober, putting on the breastplate of faith and love; and for an helmet, the hope of salvation.

1Th 5:9 For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ,

1Th 5:10 Who died for us, that, whether we wake or sleep, we should live together with him.

1Th 5:11 Wherefore comfort yourselves together, and edify one another, even as also ye do.


Think I am going to hold off on 2 Thes 2: 1-17 as there is an explanation that is a bit lengthy on the misunderstood word in 2:3…. "hē apostasia"….. which I would like to include

 

[Aaron Rich]

The rapture is based mainly off of the text you describe as well as passages from Revelation, Matthew 24, 1 Corinthians 15, 2 These 2. I wouldn't say the idea isn't biblical, what I would say is the timing of it can be.

Jesus said there is a resurrection of life and a resurrection of death. John 5:28-29, Revelation 20. Not one resurrection of life, a resurrection of death and a secret snatching away (which also includes a resurrection).

In 2 Thessalonians 2 Paul literally says that we will not be gathered to Jesus until the great rebellion happens and the Anti-Christ is revealed.

So while I don't think the rapture is in itself unbiblical, those saying it'll happen pretribulation or any other time other than at Jesus' second coming are wrong. His coming is at the end of the Tribulation.

Thank you! I will study through these verses to see what all I find. The Matthew 24 verse

The rapture is based mainly off of the text you describe as well as passages from Revelation, Matthew 24, 1 Corinthians 15, 2 These 2. I wouldn't say the idea isn't biblical, what I would say is the timing of it can be.

Jesus said there is a resurrection of life and a resurrection of death. John 5:28-29, Revelation 20. Not one resurrection of life, a resurrection of death and a secret snatching away (which also includes a resurrection).

In 2 Thessalonians 2 Paul literally says that we will not be gathered to Jesus until the great rebellion happens and the Anti-Christ is revealed.

So while I don't think the rapture is in itself unbiblical, those saying it'll happen pretribulation or any other time other than at Jesus' second coming are wrong. His coming is at the end of the Tribulation.

Thank you! I will work on these verses within this context. I have pretty much determined that Matthew 24:40 is the absolute *worst* text to use for this theology. I have heard this one used too often for this topic. Its parallel in Luke 17 is talking about the exact same thing and it is quite informative on what Jesus is saying. Therefore, if that's the proof text, I will raise my hand and say "I'd like to be the left behind, thank you."

 

[Aaron Rich]

There are quite a few scripture reference to the gathering together “rapture”. I can’t go through everything in a single post, but I will lay out some…. and if you are interested, I will submit more.


The first thing you must recognize or realize is that there are NO scriptural prophecy in the OT or the gospels regarding the rapture….which understandably throws off many people. All The scripture in the OT and the gospels give reference to events that are to take place at some point…. in the tribulation period.

There are things (prophecy) that seem similar….but similar is not identical….and there are many differences. Case in point …how many times have you read through the gospels of the triumphant entry that Jesus Christ made into Jerusalem. We have been taught and we have read that there was just that one entry …but there were two entries (← link) according to the Bible…. there are many other things I could point out around the crucifixion that are inaccurate according to tradition ....all because of similarities ….but that is for another time.

So why???? Are there no prophecies concerning the rapture…..very simply, because it wasn’t known.

The mystery and all that it encompasses was kept hidden in God and not fully revealed until Paul received it by revelation (Eph 3:3)….In addition to Jews and Gentiles being fellow citizens and of the household of God…..The one body of Christ (the one new man)….Salvation by grace in an administration of grace….The indwelling of holy spirit (incorruptible seed) whereby we can operate 9 manifestations of the spirit….and much more..... in addition to all that …..was hid this “gathering together unto him”

All the prophecy from the OT and gospels which Revelation lays out…. will still come to pass …Once this Grace administration → that God slipped in…. is completed ….and it will terminate with the gathering together unto him…. the day of redemption….. our glorious hope…..the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ …or the rapture ….whatever you want to call it…..BUT.. do not call it “The day of the Lord” or “The Lords day” those two titles in the Bible are reserved for the tribulation period……Technically the tribulation period begins right after the rapture.

For this post I am going to just include some sections of the Word from both 1&2 Thessalonians with brief comment to point out what is written.

1 Thes 4 13-18

1Th 4:13 But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.

We are not to be ignorant (conversely, we want you to be informed) brethren. Brethren is addressing those at Thessalonica and all the believers in Christ since the letters were encyclical.

1Th 4:14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.

This is addressing the living believers concerning the ones who have died (sleep in Jesus). It is not referencing anybody else except those who have fallen asleep in Jesus. …..which is in this grace administration

1Th 4:15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent (precede) them which are asleep.

1Th 4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:

An order, command, a stimulating cry….very different from a thief in the night

The ones who are raised are the dead in Christ those born again ….no one else. This is not called a resurrection because not all will be dead as 4:17 states.

1Th 4:17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

Whoever is alive and remains are caught up together in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so shall we ever be with the Lord. We are the body of Christ….. Christ is the head. Currently we are seated in the heavenlies IN Christ but when the rapture takes place we will physically with our spiritual bodies be with Him wherever Christ is.

1Th 4:18 Wherefore comfort one another with these words.


1 Thes 5:1-11

Keep an eye on the pronouns (I have bolded them for the distinction) It will delineate between the two groups of people children of the light and children of the day with those “they” and “them” who are of the night and of darkness.



5:1 begins with a contrasting conjunction which distinguishes itself from the previous event when the church of God is caught up together to meet the Lord in the air…( in the originals …there were no chapter divisions)


1Th 5:1 But of the times and the seasons, brethren, ye have no need that I write unto you.

1Th 5:2 For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord (tribulation) so cometh as a thief in the night.

1Th 5:3 For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape.

1Th 5:4 But (contrasting conjunction) ye, brethren, are not in darkness, that that day should overtake you as a thief.

1Th 5:5 Ye are all the children of light, and the children of the day: we are not of the night, nor of darkness.

1Th 5:6 Therefore let us not sleep, as do others; but let us watch (be vigilant) and be sober.

1Th 5:7 For they that sleep sleep in the night; and they that be drunken are drunken in the night.

1Th 5:8 But let us, who are of the day, be sober, putting on the breastplate of faith and love; and for an helmet, the hope of salvation.

1Th 5:9 For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ,

1Th 5:10 Who died for us, that, whether we wake or sleep, we should live together with him.

1Th 5:11 Wherefore comfort yourselves together, and edify one another, even as also ye do.


Think I am going to hold off on 2 Thes 2: 1-17 as there is an explanation that is a bit lengthy on the misunderstood word in 2:3…. "hē apostasia"….. which I would like to include

Thank you! I will have to study this a bit. I can already see that my understanding is definitely different than yours on several things, but I'm interested to dig into your viewpoint a little.

Specifically, I really struggle anytime someone suggests that anything is "new" in these mysteries that Paul reveals. My view is that anything in the apostolic writings is expounding upon what came earlier in the inspired writings, it is not adding to it. There is no "new" in my current understanding.

For an easy example, I'll use this quote from what you shared: "In addition to Jews and Gentiles being fellow citizens and of the household of God..."

I disagree with this because there are hints toward this throughout Scripture from the mixed multitude leaving Egypt along with the Hebrew people to the mixed multitude professing the words of the covenant together with the descendants of Jacob on the Mounts of Blessing and Curses. Just to name a couple. These were prophetic foreshadows of the "one new man" which, in my current understanding, Paul was drawing on to form this teaching that he shared.

I appreciate your time! I'll dig in on what you shared.

 

[com7fy8]

2 Timothy 2:18 speaks of "the resurrection". And the Rapture is the resurrection of the church bride of Christ > 1 Corinthians 15:52 > 1 Thessalonians 4:15-17 > and we have Matthew 24:29-31 about what will happen "immediately after" the tribulation.

 

[sandman]

2 Timothy 2:18 speaks of "the resurrection". And the Rapture is the resurrection of the church bride of Christ > 1 Corinthians 15:52 > 1 Thessalonians 4:15-17 > and we have Matthew 24:29-31 about what will happen "immediately after" the tribulation.

Can't be the Church of the Bride.... that was suspended and doesn't pick up again until Revelation...
We are the Church of the Body.....The apostles had that question for Jesus Just before He was taken up.
Act 1:6 When they therefore were come together, they asked of him, saying, Lord, wilt thou at this time restore again the kingdom to Israel?

It is something that is held in abeyance due to the administration of Grace.

 

[sandman]

Thank you! I will have to study this a bit. I can already see that my understanding is definitely different than yours on several things, but I'm interested to dig into your viewpoint a little.

Specifically, I really struggle anytime someone suggests that anything is "new" in these mysteries that Paul reveals. My view is that anything in the apostolic writings is expounding upon what came earlier in the inspired writings, it is not adding to it. There is no "new" in my current understanding.

For an easy example, I'll use this quote from what you shared: "In addition to Jews and Gentiles being fellow citizens and of the household of God..."

I disagree with this because there are hints toward this throughout Scripture from the mixed multitude leaving Egypt along with the Hebrew people to the mixed multitude professing the words of the covenant together with the descendants of Jacob on the Mounts of Blessing and Curses. Just to name a couple. These were prophetic foreshadows of the "one new man" which, in my current understanding, Paul was drawing on to form this teaching that he shared.

I appreciate your time! I'll dig in on what you shared.

My pleasure...I will post additional information tomorrow.

 

[Clare73]

Hi all!
Google doesn't seem to want to give me a list of proof-texts that are used to show the rapture in Scripture. I'm researching it trying to understand the theology behind it more.
Can you all share the proof verses you know about within Scripture? Surely the entire theology has not been formed from 1 Thes 4...there obviously should be additional Biblical witnesses, right?

No, the word of God need say it only once for it to be true, though it is found in several places.

 

[sandman]

2 Thes 2:1-17 with reference to hē apostasia at the end.

2Th 2:1 Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,

Brethren indicates Paul is talking to those in the body of Christ…. born again believers.

By the “coming” of our lord Jesus Christ AND “gathering together” unto Him (2 things) coming and gathering addressed to born again believers of the church of God.

2Th2:2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ (should read Lord) is at hand.

Just as today, there were those spreading false information including → that the day of the Lord is taking place right now.

The word Christ should read Lord. All critical Greek text read Lord. KJV/NKJV is the only common version that has Christ. Any reference to the Lords Day or Day of the Lord is referencing the tribulation period.

2Th 2:3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first (the departure first) and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;

In order to not be deceived, we need to be aware that there is a departure first.

See below on hē apostasia

2Th 2:4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.


2Th 2:5 Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things?

Remember (dudes) brethren…. I went over this stuff with you.
Paul had previously told them in 1Th 1:9&10, 1Th 2:19, 1Th 4:13-18, 1Th 5:1-11
The saints in Thessalonica were well aware of the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our gathering together unto Him…the departure.

2Th 2:6 And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time.

withholdeth …holds back …detains

2Th 2:7 For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth= witholdeth will let, until he be taken out of the way.

Letteth is the same word as withholdeth.. (katechō)

2Th 2:8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:

And then ….when? ….When that which detains is gone….taken out of the way …departed. Once light is gone …darkness takes free reign.

2Th 2:9 Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,

2Th 2:10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.

2Th 2:11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:

Them and they…not us

2Th 2:12 That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.


2Th 2:13 But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:

But (contrasting conjunction)…..in contrast to verse 8-12 We =born again believers

2Th 2:14 Whereunto he called you by our gospel, to the obtaining of the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ.

2Th 2:15 Therefore, brethren, stand fast, and hold the traditions which ye have been taught, whether by word, or our epistle.

2Th 2:16 Now our Lord Jesus Christ himself, and God, even our Father, which hath loved us, and hath given us everlasting consolation and good hope through grace,

2Th 2:17 Comfort your hearts, and stablish you in every good word and work.

_______________________________________________________________________

A look at the word hē apostasia …translated in verse 2:3 as a falling away which has been wrongly understood as a falling away of the faithful believers….but that is not how this reads..

2Th 2:3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a “falling away” and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;

First understand that the English version prior to King James version.. translated apostasia in 2 Thessalonians 2:3 as departing. The King James or authorized version was the first to translate apostasia as falling away.

Jerome's Latin translation of the vulgate around 400 AD, translate the Greek apostasia as Latin discessio ….meaning departure. The Tyndale Bible 1534, the Geneva Bible, and the Cramer Bible first published in 1537, all translated apostasia as departed ….these versions all preceded the King James version printed in 1611.

What happened with KJV …we don’t really know….. but one of the fatal mistakes the translators made was in failing to take into consideration the definite article (the) before the word apostasia which appears in the Greek text. The article may be used to point out an object, the identity of which is defined by some previous reference made to it in the context…. The translators of the Authorized KJ Version looked for the definition of the word in the subsequent context…. whereas the Greek article points here to a previous context…. namely to the coming of the Lord Jesus Christ in the air and the gathering together of the Saints to Him.

We need to look at this from the Greek point of view, not the English, if we are to discover the reason that the article is used the usage of the article draws our attention to the identity and special significance of this particular departure.

The Greeks do not need the article to make the noun definite as used in English. In the Greek a substantive is definite without the article……The article originally came from the demonstrative pronoun such as “this” or “that” ….which calls attention with special emphasis to a designated object. Its function is to point out an object or draw attention to it….. It is used with a word that makes the word stand out distinctly. Whenever the Greeks used the article, it points out individual identity…. and it marks a specific object of thought.

The Greeks used the article with infinitives, adjectives, adverbs, prepositional phrases, and clauses …..or even with whole sentences….. We do not have a corresponding English usage or anything even remotely similar. When the article hē appears in Greek ….it always signals some special significance. And we need to look at the matter from the Greek point of view, not the English, if we are to discover the reason that the article is used.

Apostasia = departure. The cognitive neuter noun apostasia occurs three times Mat 5:31,19:7,& Mark 10:4…. of divorce, the departure of a husband and wife from each other. The word used here is a feminine noun with only one other occurrence in the New Testament… Acts 21:21 regarding a departure from Moses… that is, a departure from the mosaic law. The departure referred to here in Thes 2:2 is explained in verses 2:6 through 2:8 as the removal of a restraint.

Verse 1 begins this discussion with regard to the coming of the Lord Jesus Christ and our gathering up together with him. This verse in chapter 2 …taken together with the previous verses in the first chapter suggest that the departure refers to the gathering together of holy ones… which precedes both the appearance of the lawless one and the day of the Lord. Therefore we can conclude that the Bible definition of the word, apostasia is departure.

2 Thes 2:3 should read
2Th 2:3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come the departure (hē apostasia) and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition.

 

[Clare73]

2 Thes 2:1-17 with reference to hē apostasia at the end.

2Th 2:1 Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,

Brethren indicates Paul is talking to those in the body of Christ…. born again believers.

By the “coming” of our lord Jesus Christ AND “gathering together” unto Him (2 things) coming and gathering addressed to born again believers of the church of God.

2Th2:2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ (should read Lord) is at hand.

Just as today, there were those spreading false information including → that the day of the Lord is taking place right now.

The word Christ should read Lord. All critical Greek text read Lord. KJV/NKJV is the only common version that has Christ. Any reference to the Lords Day or Day of the Lord is referencing the tribulation period.

2Th 2:3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first (the departure first) and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;

In order to not be deceived, we need to be aware that there is a departure first.

See below on hē apostasia

2Th 2:4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.


2Th 2:5 Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things?

Remember (dudes) brethren…. I went over this stuff with you.
Paul had previously told them in 1Th 1:9&10, 1Th 2:19, 1Th 4:13-18, 1Th 5:1-11
The saints in Thessalonica were well aware of the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our gathering together unto Him…the departure.

2Th 2:6 And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time.

withholdeth …holds back …detains

2Th 2:7 For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth= witholdeth will let, until he be taken out of the way.

Letteth is the same word as withholdeth.. (katechō)

2Th 2:8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:

And then ….when? ….When that which detains is gone….taken out of the way …departed. Once light is gone …darkness takes free reign.

2Th 2:9 Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,

2Th 2:10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.

2Th 2:11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:

Them and they…not us

2Th 2:12 That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.


2Th 2:13 But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:

But (contrasting conjunction)…..in contrast to verse 8-12 We =born again believers

2Th 2:14 Whereunto he called you by our gospel, to the obtaining of the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ.

2Th 2:15 Therefore, brethren, stand fast, and hold the traditions which ye have been taught, whether by word, or our epistle.

2Th 2:16 Now our Lord Jesus Christ himself, and God, even our Father, which hath loved us, and hath given us everlasting consolation and good hope through grace,

2Th 2:17 Comfort your hearts, and stablish you in every good word and work.

_______________________________________________________________________

A look at the word hē apostasia …translated in verse 2:3 as a falling away which has been wrongly understood as a falling away of the faithful believers….but that is not how this reads..

2Th 2:3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a “falling away” and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;

First understand that the English version prior to King James version.. translated apostasia in 2 Thessalonians 2:3 as departing. The King James or authorized version was the first to translate apostasia as falling away.

Jerome's Latin translation of the vulgate around 400 AD, translate the Greek apostasia as Latin discessio ….meaning departure. The Tyndale Bible 1534, the Geneva Bible, and the Cramer Bible first published in 1537, all translated apostasia as departed ….these versions all preceded the King James version printed in 1611.

Apostasia (apostasy) in both Greek and English means "departure" by defection, revolt, forsaking,
falling away, turning away from, as in Acts 21:21, 2 Thessalonians 2:3.

What happened with KJV …we don’t really know….. but one of the fatal mistakes the translators made was in failing to take into consideration the definite article (the) before the word apostasia which appears in the Greek text. The article may be used to point out an object, the identity of which is defined by some previous reference made to it in the context…. The translators of the Authorized KJ Version looked for the definition of the word in the subsequent context…. whereas the Greek article points here to a previous context…. namely to the coming of the Lord Jesus Christ in the air and the gathering together of the Saints to Him.

We need to look at this from the Greek point of view, not the English, if we are to discover the reason that the article is used the usage of the article draws our attention to the identity and special significance of this particular departure.

The Greeks do not need the article to make the noun definite as used in English. In the Greek a substantive is definite without the article……The article originally came from the demonstrative pronoun such as “this” or “that” ….which calls attention with special emphasis to a designated object. Its function is to point out an object or draw attention to it….. It is used with a word that makes the word stand out distinctly. Whenever the Greeks used the article, it points out individual identity…. and it marks a specific object of thought.

The Greeks used the article with infinitives, adjectives, adverbs, prepositional phrases, and clauses …..or even with whole sentences….. We do not have a corresponding English usage or anything even remotely similar. When the article hē appears in Greek ….it always signals some special significance. And we need to look at the matter from the Greek point of view, not the English, if we are to discover the reason that the article is used.

Apostasia = departure. The cognitive neuter noun apostasia occurs three times Mat 5:31,19:7,& Mark 10:4…. of divorce, the departure of a husband and wife from each other. The word used here is a feminine noun with only one other occurrence in the New Testament… Acts 21:21 regarding a departure from Moses… that is, a departure from the mosaic law. The departure referred to here in Thes 2:2 is explained in verses 2:6 through 2:8 as the removal of a restraint.

Verse 1 begins this discussion with regard to the coming of the Lord Jesus Christ and our gathering up together with him. This verse in chapter 2 …taken together with the previous verses in the first chapter suggest that the departure refers to the gathering together of holy ones… which precedes both the appearance of the lawless one and the day of the Lord. Therefore we can conclude that the Bible definition of the word, apostasia is departure.

2 Thes 2:3 should read
2Th 2:3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come the departure (hē apostasia) and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition.

 

[enoob57]

Hi all!

Google doesn't seem to want to give me a list of proof-texts that are used to show the rapture in Scripture. I'm researching it trying to understand the theology behind it more.

Can you all share the proof verses you know about within Scripture? Surely the entire theology has not been formed from 1 Thes 4...there obviously should be additional Biblical witnesses, right?

Thanks for your help!

Here is a good treatise on the subject
15 Important Bible Verses About The Rapture (Shocking Truths) (biblereasons.com)

 

[enoob57]

It depends if Paul was revealing the "mystery" of the rapture at that time, or only some aspect of it (like we shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed), in which case there should be prior Biblical witnesses - agreed.

I personally see it in Isaiah

Thy dead men shall live, together with my dead body shall they arise. Awake and sing, ye that dwell in dust: for thy dew is as the dew of herbs, and the earth shall cast out the dead.
Come, my people, enter thou into thy chambers, and shut thy doors about thee: hide thyself as it were for a little moment, until the indignation be overpast.
For, behold, the LORD cometh out of his place to punish the inhabitants of the earth for their iniquity: the earth also shall disclose her blood, and shall no more cover her slain.

And in the Book of Enoch (Chap L), which Jude quoted from:

1. And in those days a change shall take place for the holy and elect,
And the light of days shall abide upon them,
And glory and honour shall turn to the holy,
2. On the day of affliction on which evil shall have been treasured up against the sinners.
And the righteous shall be victorious in the name of the Lord of Spirits:
And He will cause the others to witness (this)
That they may repent
And forgo the works of their hands.
3. They shall have no honour through the name of the Lord of Spirits,
Yet through His name shall they be saved,
And the Lord of Spirits will have compassion on them,
For His compassion is great.
4. And He is righteous also in His judgement,
And in the presence of His glory unrighteousness also shall not maintain itself:
At His judgement the unrepentant shall perish before Him.
5. And from henceforth I will have no mercy on them, saith the Lord of Spirits.

As the book of Enoch is not part of the Scripture and by placing it with Scripture brings confusion as to authority of Scripture... at least you quote Scripture first !