Questions from a non-denominational

[xThirst4Godx]

I am non-denominational by force, not by will. that situation has driven me to look into several denominations, for a while making me forget that Jesus wasn't presbyterian or methodist or catholic, just a servant of the Lord. are there any traits that mark this as its own denomination? what are the basic principles and fundamental beliefs of restorationism?

 

[Splayd]

We really don't consider ourselves to be a denomination, though there are certain beliefs and practices which we generally share. There's a good sticky about our beliefs in our forum if you'd like to check it out.

Peace

 

[Jhth]

The desire as I see it of the restoration movement was to restore the Church to Christ. To use the scriptures as the only source of faith and practice thus the saying no creeds but Christ and no book but the bible. Trying to bridge the gap of denominationalism they came up with slogans like "No book but the bible and no creeds but Christ" and We are not the only Christians but Christians only."

While their claim to not be a denomination is hindered by the fact that the restoration group itself has split up into three different groups because of not being able to agree with what the scriptures were declaring. These groups are the Christian Church, the Church of Christ and the Disciples of Christ.

 

[PattyOfurniture]

'Restoration Movement ' trinitarians?

 

[SoulFly51]

We believe in the trinity.

 

[PattyOfurniture]

Thank you Wes

 

[DerSchweik]

Amen re the Trinity.

It is early morning and my head is yet a bit foggy , so until the coffee kicks in, I might not be completely fluent in my response but let me see if I can answer your questions nevertheless.

First, the “restoration movement” is merely an attempt to restore to the church the practices, and beliefs, and doctrines of the New Testament church, more specifically, the first century church. You probably know much of this, but I hope some clarification might be helpful.

To understand the principle behind restoration or the need for restoration, consider what happens to someone in sports or to a team that has lost their focus and are no longer playing to their potential or as effectively as they have in times past. When that happens, they usually “go back to the basics” or the fundamentals to get back on track, to re-introduce the things that were effective for them in the past so they can play once again, at a level of performance as they are capable of playing.

I view the restoration movement in much a similar light – not focusing on performance of course, but on the fundamentals that made the first century church the light it was to world at that time.

I think it is important to outline a very brief history of the church as a background for what I believe led to the need for restoration; I’ll try to be as brief as I can, so please bear with me.

From its very beginnings, the first century church was under constant attack from without and within. Paul, in many of his letters to the churches, pointedly attacked those who assailed the Gospel from a variety of angles – in Galatians, Paul attacked legalism, and in Corinthians, he addressed the issue of divisions within the church. Early on, the church was assaulted with numerous false teachings such as Gnosticism, pelagianism, and the like. As the church grew and progressed, so did the assaults – heretical teachings, pagan practices, etc. To counter many of these attacks, the early Christian fathers wrote much in defense of the faith. Soon, creeds were adopted as a means of clarifying beliefs and identifying or associating with the proper teachings.

As in any war, we tend to look to those warriors among us who distinguish themselves by their abilities to combat the enemy effectively. We make want to make them our leaders, to fight the big battles for us so we don’t have to fight them ourselves because we often see the enemy as too strong for our own puny abilities (except for those rare Davids among us). This, ironically, was the very impetus that led Israel to seek their first king, which displeased God, nevertheless He anointed Saul as Israel’s first king to lead them into their battles against their enemies.

In around the third or fourth century, we see the first consolidation of similar power in the church, organized around the leadership of the church in Rome. This eventually became the catholic (“universal,” “general,” “overall”) church, which itself split into the Roman Catholic church and the eastern orthodox church (headquartered in Constantinople).

These were the Christian churches up until about the 14- and 1500s. A catholic monk named Martin Luther then pinned his 95 theses to the door of the Wittemberg cathedral, theses addressing a number of excesses and abuses of the catholic church. This spawned a movement of protest within the church that eventually led to what we now call the “reformation” and the inception of Protestantism.

The ensuing era of unchecked protest and unrivaled reforms led to the formation of what we know today as the various “denominations” of Protestantism: Lutherans, Methodists, Baptists, Calvinists, Wesleyans, Presbyterians, etc, etc, etc. All these groups grew around the teachings of their various leaders (Luther, Wesley, Calvin, Zwingli, and so forth). And as with all endeavors that involve us fallible and fallen humans, we divided; groups camped and entrenched themselves around these various teachings, and we experienced the rapid spread of divisions within the church under the single banner of “reform.”

In the late 16- and early 1700s, some viewed this rapid proliferation of division as inherently wrong. The very reforms we were demanding were themselves spawning excesses and abuses of a different nature, departures from sound doctrine and practices. So in the midst of reformation, another movement began to attempt to stem the tide of further division and “restore” to the reformation the principles, the fundamentals on which the first century church was originally founded and on which the first century church evangelized the world so effectively.

But here again, we have fallible, fallen humans and the result was predictable: division. Today, the restoration movement is comprised of three major divisions, the churches of Christ, the disciples of Christ, and the Christian churches. And there are many subdivisions within all three, much to our shame and embarrassment.

Still, I believe in the soundness of the fundamentals themselves that are the goal of restoration. It is, at its heart, a desire to return to the Bible as our sole authority for doctrine and practice; it is a desire to get “back to the basics” and to the fundamentals keep us united in Christ and alive to the goal of evangelizing the world for Christ.

Our churches are wholly autonomous; we have no over-arching leadership, organization, or “convention” that tells us what to believe and how to worship. We look to the Bible as our sole authority in all matters of doctrine, and where it speaks, we speak; where it is silent – well, we often speak anyway unfortunately – such is the nature of autonomy and human fallibility.

I love the church and am wholly dedicated to His body, to the unity of His body. It pains me to see all the divisions and disparate teachings that define the Christian world today. It pains me to walk into some individual church of Christ (not most) and see utter dogmatism and legalism – which honestly, one can find in many churches of any denomination. But it pains me because the world is watching all of us, and seeing our divisions, our dogmatism, our disunity, and the silliness and comedic antics that unfortunately characterize much of modern Christianity.

(The coffee is kicking in )

Still, I love the church. I need the church; and I am devoted to His body and to the principles of restoration that I feel we desperately need if we are to carry out effectively the commission He has given us. Most are not characterized by dogmatism and legalism; most are comprised of dedicated, loving, faithful Christians striving to do His will in their lives.

I urge you to pray earnestly for wisdom and guidance in this matter – not that you choose restoration, but that you seek and choose His will for you. Regardless where He leads you, regardless what congregation, denomination, or non-denomination you are led to attend, you will experience disappointment, disaffection, and disunity. But you will also experience utter joy and fulfillment as you follow His will faithfully – for He is faithful and He will not allow us to be tempted beyond our abilities but with each disappointment, He provides us an avenue to hope and joy in Him.

Amen? God bless you, brother.

May God’s grace and mercy be with you as you walk in faith in Him and continue in your thirst for God.

P.S. In a recent sermon, our preacher quoted a book on heaven where the author made this remarkable statement (I paraphrase):

For Christians, this world is the closest we will ever experience what hell will be like.
For non-Christians, this world is the closest they will ever experience what heaven will be like.

I pray for our endurance through this proximity to hell, and for the salvation of those in this proximity to heaven.

 

[Jerrell]

Jesus was a Jew not a Christian, A real Christian in the sense that we are thinking of is a real gentile Christian who followed the apostolic teachings.

 

[JDIBe]

Jesus was a Jew not a Christian, A real Christian in the sense that we are thinking of is a real gentile Christian who followed the apostolic teachings.

Christian: "Christ-like"

I think the original is probably the best likeness one can have.

I do think it is an important distinction because we are to be as "Christ-like" as possible. We are not called to be strictly "as close to gentile Christians who followed apostolic teachings as possible" per se.

Yes, Jesus was a Jew and followed many Jewish customs. Yes, those gentile Christians were (hopefully) trying to follow Jesus. But to downplay (even unintentially) the character of Jesus Himself in application to our everday lives is not desirable.

 

[HeyHomie]

I think some people get confused about our "non-denominational" status because, let's face it, what is taught from the pulpit at Kalamazoo Christian Church is essentially the same as what is taught at Ypsilanti Christian Church as what is taught at Hershey Christian Church and so on.

Still, there's no "headquarters," and each of our congregations make their own decisions. So in that sense we're definitely NOT a denomination.

 

[LivingWordUnity]

I am non-denominational by force, not by will. that situation has driven me to look into several denominations, for a while making me forget that Jesus wasn't presbyterian or methodist or catholic, just a servant of the Lord. are there any traits that mark this as its own denomination? what are the basic principles and fundamental beliefs of restorationism?

Jesus IS the Lord.

The Holy Trinity=One God in three eternally divine persons , Father, Son, and Holy Spirit.

Jesus is both true God and true man. This is called the Incarnation.

Because we are not God, these mysteries of God are too much for our limited brain capacities to fully comprehend. So don't worry if this is hard to understand.
.

 

[Jim Woodell]

I am non-denominational by force, not by will. that situation has driven me to look into several denominations, for a while making me forget that Jesus wasn't presbyterian or methodist or catholic, just a servant of the Lord. are there any traits that mark this as its own denomination? what are the basic principles and fundamental beliefs of restorationism?

Before there was a denomination Christ's church existed. God "added the saved to the church" (KJV) according to Acts 2:47. He is the head of "the" church according to Ephesians 1:23 and "By one Spirit we are ALL baptized into the one body..." (1 Cor. 12:13). Christ said he would "build" his church (Matthew 16:18) and He is. I believe you can be a Christian and not belong to a denomination today. That is the goal of Churches of Christ, but, admittedly (in my opinion), many Churches of Christ are denominational in their philosophy and practice. This will vary from one congregation to another, even in the same town.

 

[- DRA -]

I am non-denominational by force, not by will. that situation has driven me to look into several denominations, for a while making me forget that Jesus wasn't presbyterian or methodist or catholic, just a servant of the Lord. are there any traits that mark this as its own denomination? what are the basic principles and fundamental beliefs of restorationism?

The O.T. provides the foundation for restoration. God gave the law of Moses to the Israelites, and over time they became more and more unfaithful. After they were given their promised land (the land of Israel) they divided, with the northern tribes going farther and farther away from God's law. Judah remained, but continued in the unfaithful footsteps of the northern tribes who fell to Assyrian captivity. Judah's King Josiah in 2 Kings 23 put forth numerous efforts to restore the people to faithfulness. He is commended for his efforts in verse 25 of that chapter.

Likewise, the Lord established His law and His church (those whom He called out) in Acts 2. We read about His church in the New Testament. Over time, some fell away per 1 Timothy 4:1-3. From that time, whoever found themselves to be out of step with God, His word, and His church has needed to be restored to faithfulness.

To me, two principles are at the core of restoration: 1.) 2 Timothy 3:16-17 2.) 1 Peter 4:11a. Concisely stated, God's inspired word completely furnishes us with all we need to serve and please Him, and therefore we should speak as His word directs.

Hope this helps as an introduction to restoration.

 

[- DRA -]

Before there was a denomination Christ's church existed. God "added the saved to the church" (KJV) according to Acts 2:47. He is the head of "the" church according to Ephesians 1:23 and "By one Spirit we are ALL baptized into the one body..." (1 Cor. 12:13). Christ said he would "build" his church (Matthew 16:18) and He is. I believe you can be a Christian and not belong to a denomination today. That is the goal of Churches of Christ, but, admittedly (in my opinion), many Churches of Christ are denominational in their philosophy and practice. This will vary from one congregation to another, even in the same town.

The denominational concept is actually from the mathematical term: the bottom number in a fraction. Thus, the main idea of denominationalism is that the church is made up of different churches. For sure, any church that accepts such reasoning is denominational. Some churches of Christ are crossing that line and accepting (i.e., having fellowship with) those from the denominational churches (e.g., Baptist, Methodist, Presbyterian). According to the principle taught in 2 John 9-11, that means by consent they stand on common ground with the denomination churches and stand in jeoparday of the same judgement. If such is the case, restoration to faithfulness is a necessity for all involved in error - whether denominational or of another sort.

 

[wmssid]

1) Raised up in the Millenium.

In 1943 I heard a lesson of "The Summary of Revelation" in one hour.

We can receive "supernatural wisdom" second-hand; or, by listening to someone else. I had more "wisdom" at the age of 10 years than any of the church leaders have today

A) First of all.. I learned, "Jesus lives today! -- on earth!"
I had never heard this fact until this man specializig in prophecy told me.
I have never heard this fact since.

B) Secondly, when I was older, I began to study the "dead" writers of commentaries (Protestants and Millennial), and they agreed, "Jesus lives today! -- on earth!"

C) This was taught by expounding the prophecies fulfilled -- in every century -- until the life of the writer (#1), then they all identified various prophecies being fulfillled in their lifetimes (#2), then they all continued to the end of the book of Revelation, and the End of Time (#3).

D) They all ended with: Millennium, Satan Loosed A Little (Rev 20.3, 7-9a), the Last Battle (Rev 20.9b-10), the Final Resurrection (End of Time; Rev 20.11-15)

The result was: "They knew more about your life today than you do."

This is called, "Faith," and "Common Sense."

2) The Bible Message was Banned Worldwide in 1948.

The Ecumenical Movement at the Ecumenicall Council of Amsterdam in August of 1948, founded the World Council of Churches.

"128 Protestant denominations were added to the Seven Old Catholic Churches, and the [2] Eastern Orthodox Churches, and the Anglcan Church" - Webster's Dictionary, 1968.
NOTE: "The Stone-Campbell Movement," by Leroy Garrett (who boasted of being Ecumenical) boasted of the fact that, "a Restoration Movement man got to pray at an Ecumenical Council." [Whoop de do!]

The primmary goal of the Ecumenical Movement is stated to be, "Unity with the Pope." Mr. Garrett detailed the two councils of the Disciples
of Christ begging unity with the Pope. [But, the Pope would not have then. Praise the Lord!]

(1) This is banned in Webster's Ninth New Collegiate Dictionary, 1989.
(2) It is also banned in Webster's II New College Dictionary, 1995.
(3) These two dictionaries had also banned a definition of, "The Dark Ages."

Dark Ages: CHARACTERIZED BY INTELLECTUAL STAGNATION, WIDESPREAD IGNORANCE AND POVERT, DECLINE, ETC." - Dictionary, 1968.

The Pope's, "intellectual stagnation, widespread ignorace" in Europe is being covered up.

And ths is the story of your religion today!

But, I knew this before it happened, in 1943. "To be forewarned is to be forearmed" - Unknown.

Jesus had this to say about you:

"And when the thousand years have expired, Satan wil be loosed from his prison (Rev 19.20) and will go out to deceive the NATIONS (Churches) which are in the four corners of the earth, Gog and Magog (Ecumenical Movement) ..." - Rev 20.7-8.

I MET GOG FACE-TO-FACE.

This was a professor from Cincinnati Bible Seminary. For 18 years, I had been taught, "No church doctors!" But then, "Gog" converted the congregation to a lifetime of, "doctor-worship." The Churches of Christ are especially "hyped up" about "doctor-worship."

But recently, Jesus has been "stroking" the Beast and the False Prophet with severe punishments. They clsed one-third of their churches in AD 2004.

The Catholic Church is on trial today in Belleville, Illinois, for "child molestation."

They were "partially" out of the Old Testament during the Millennnium.
God has reserved for us the task of leading men "all the way" out of the Old Testament.

Jesus saves!

wmssid

 

[wmssid]

A History of the Restoration Movement

Alexander Campbell, a Presbyterian, and Infant Sprinkled, learned from someone, in 1809, that only “immersion” was legal “baptism.” He and his father, Thomas, discussed, and researched the subject for 3 years.

Finally, in 1812, they and others were “immersed” by two Baptist elders for “forgiveness of sins.”
Alexander started his own church.

In 1823, he began publishing Christian monthly magazines: the Christian Baptist (1823-30) and the Millennial Harbinger (1830-66).

In 1826, he published the Living Oracles NT, which was the first, and only, Bible translation to translate the word “baptizo”; rendering it, “I immerse.” Many other “fake” words were corrected, such as, preach, preacher, church, “wind” for “Spirit”; “grace” for favor”; and numerous Latin words which did not belong in the Bible translation.

Campbell was also involved in public debates with denominational scholars, such as, “The Law” (OT & NT), and “the blood of Jesus is applied to our sins at immersion”; and others.

He predicted the Fall of Babylon 57 years before the fact, and he predicted the Millennium 36 years before the fact.

Then he slipped from the faith, and embraced “Zionism”; so that when the Millennium “hit him in the face” (1959) – he denied it.

For this reason, and similar faults, I have dubbed him, “Mr. 50/50” in my books.

a) “Only persons immersed in Jesus Christ are saved.”
b) “We believed that there are some saved souls in all denominations.”
c) “We do not make immersion a requirement for church membership.”
d) “The ‘Double-Ds’ (Doctors of Divinity), also termed ‘Capital Ds’; are condemned by Jesus.”
e) Campbell founded Bethany College which became a “preacher factory.”

The result of these vacillations has been division in the Restoration Movement ever since.

Campbell, in my opinion, was the “messenger” in Revelation 14.6.

The USA was “stood on her head” by the proclaiming of “immersion.” Protestants were fleeing their denominations to embrace “immersion.”

In 1895, the Disciples of Christ was the sixth largest denomination in the USA.

In 1901, the Churches of Christ divided into a separate body.

In 1949, the Independent Christian Churches separated from the Disciples of Christ. [Cincinnati Bible Seminary was disowned by the congregation of my youth.]

But the Ecumenical Movement stifled all search for truth, and today they are seeking to “put the pieces together again.” [Which is opposed to Jesus bringing “division” and not “peace."]